Manual Recipe Conversion

GroovePuppy · Jan 30, 2009

So I'm suspicious of BeerSmith's automatic Extract to AG conversion. It seems too worried about keeping the SRM matched. Here's what I think I need to do. Someone tell me if I'm wrong.

So I start with a Stout recipe, Extract with steeping grains.

Step 1 is to keep the steeping grains the same. I figure mashing won't significantly change their flavor contribution since I "sparge" my steeping grains.

Step 2 is converting the 1lb of Wheat DME. I figure to convert that to the point where the gravity contribution is the same. Since I'm mashing Wheat malt instead of Wheat DME the flavor contribution should be the same or similar since it's equivalent to making my own diluted extract.

Step 3 is to adjust the 2-row so the OG of the overall beer lines back up with the original recipe. (Since I now get more gravity contribution from the previously steeped specialty grains.)

Obviously steps 2 & 3 will be affected by my efficiency, but I assume 75% and I've been close using DeathBrewer's stovetop method three times so far. I can add DME if I have to.

Comments?

GroovePuppy · Jan 30, 2009

Just played a little more with BeerSmith. If I start the Stout recipe with Extra Light DME (SRM 3.0) and run the auto convert using UK Pale 2-row (SRM 3.0) it keeps the steeping grains the same. This proves step 1. BeerSmith only tweaks them to get the SRM right which is dumb as dirt. Flavor is way more important than SRM.

Something I don't get is that when I manually convert 1lb of Wheat DME I get 1.5lbs of Wheat Malt. The automatic conversion wants me to use only 10oz. Why on earth would I want to use less actual grain than DME? That's going to change something in the flavor/mouthfeel. It's not like it even affects the SRM since both are 2.0.

hopsalot · Jan 30, 2009

how much 2 row and wheat malt are you talking about?

flyangler18 · Jan 30, 2009

Wheat extract is a blend of wheat and 2-row; usually 60/40.

hopsalot · Jan 30, 2009

so is that where the error arises, going from a wheat/barley to straight wheat?

flyangler18 · Jan 30, 2009

hopsalot said:
so is that where the error arises, going from a wheat/barley to straight wheat?

That's my gut feeling; I'll have to cipher out the numbers to be sure.

hopsalot · Jan 30, 2009

if you end up crunching the numbers I would be interested in how you did it

flyangler18 · Jan 30, 2009

Here's an old posting of mine where I figured it out in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/wheat-lme-conversion-93370/

The conversion factor is simple arithmetic: 1 lb grain = .75 lb LME = .6 lb DME.

To convert LME to its equivalent base malt weight, multiply by a factor of 1.37.

You'll need 1.37 lbs of base malt. However as I indicated twice in this thread, wheat malt extract is a blend.

.65 x 1.37 = .8905 lbs white wheat
.35 x 1.37 = .4795 lbs barley, probably plain old American 2-row

For simplicity, I'd use .9 lbs of white wheat and .5 lbs of 2-row.

You can probably also extrapolate the conversion by looking at some of the recipes in BCS and reverse-engineering it.

This is dealing specifically with Wheat LME, should be pretty straightforward to adjust for Wheat DME.

hopsalot · Jan 30, 2009

thanks angler, good stuff

GroovePuppy · Jan 30, 2009

Here's what I have.

Extract version:

Code:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal      
Boil Size: 5.72 gal
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 44.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: - %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
4 lbs 8.0 oz  Amber Dry Extract (12.5 SRM)              Dry Extract  58.06 %       
1 lbs         Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)               Dry Extract  12.90 %       
1 lbs         Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)                Grain        12.90 %       
12.0 oz       Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)     Grain        9.68 %        
8.0 oz        Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)                Grain        6.45 %        
1.50 oz       Fuggles [4.75 %]  (60 min)                Hops         25.9 IBU      
0.50 oz       Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %]  (15 min)    Hops         4.5 IBU       
1 Pkgs        Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) [Starter 0 Yeast-Ale

Beersmith conversion:

Code:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal      
Boil Size: 5.72 gal
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 44.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
6 lbs 7.0 oz  Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain        58.65 %       
1 lbs 1.2 oz  Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)                Grain        10.84 %       
12.9 oz       Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)     Grain        8.13 %        
9.8 oz        Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM)                 Grain        6.54 %        
8.6 oz        Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)                Grain        5.42 %        
1.50 oz       Fuggles [4.75 %]  (60 min)                Hops         25.9 IBU      
0.50 oz       Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %]  (15 min)    Hops         4.5 IBU       
1 Pkgs        Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) [Starter 0 Yeast-Ale

My manual conversion:

Code:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal      
Boil Size: 5.72 gal
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 42.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
5 lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain        60.53 %       
1 lbs 8.0 oz  Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM)                 Grain        15.79 %       
1 lbs         Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)                Grain        10.53 %       
12.0 oz       Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)     Grain        7.89 %        
8.0 oz        Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)                Grain        5.26 %        
1.50 oz       Fuggles [4.75 %]  (60 min)                Hops         25.8 IBU      
0.50 oz       Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %]  (15 min)    Hops         4.5 IBU       
1 Pkgs        Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) [Starter 0 Yeast-Ale

GroovePuppy · Jan 30, 2009

flyangler18 said:
Wheat extract is a blend of wheat and 2-row; usually 60/40.

That sounds like the deal right there; BeerSmith gives 10oz of Wheat against 24oz from my manual conversion. That's like 42% Wheat to 58% 2-row. Did you mean 60/40 where Wheat is the 40?

flyangler18 · Jan 30, 2009

GroovePuppy said:
Did you mean 60/40 where Wheat is the 40?

The reverse. 60% wheat, 40% 2-row.

GroovePuppy · Jan 30, 2009

Hmmmm, the Wheat DME at Austin Homebrew is only 45% Wheat.

Austin Homebrew Supply

The site I found the clone on lists Wheat DME as 55% Wheat.

BeerTools Brewing Ingredients - Malt Extracts

You'd think there'd be a standard!!!! Maybe I'll split the difference and assume 50%. That gives me:

Code:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal      
Boil Size: 5.72 gal
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 42.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
6 lbs 6 oz    Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain        68.02 %       
1 lbs         Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)                Grain        10.66 %       
12.0 oz       Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)     Grain        8.00 %        
12.0 oz       Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM)                 Grain        8.00 %        
8.0 oz        Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)                Grain        5.33 %        
1.50 oz       Fuggles [4.75 %]  (60 min)                Hops         26.0 IBU      
0.50 oz       Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %]  (15 min)    Hops         4.5 IBU       
1 Pkgs        Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) [Starter 0 Yeast-Ale

flyangler18 · Jan 30, 2009

Looks good, dude.

The percentages vary according to manufacturer; I think that might be a typo on the AHS website. There's more wheat than 2-row, most assuredly.

You can assume 50/50 and bump your 2-row to hit your expected gravity if necessary.

GroovePuppy · Jan 30, 2009

Thanks for the inputs. This'll be my next brew I think, bumped to 5.5Gallons 'cos AG creates so much trub in the primary!!!!

Manual Recipe Conversion

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

GroovePuppy

Well-Known Member

GroovePuppy

Well-Known Member

hopsalot

Well-Known Member

flyangler18

Well-Known Member

hopsalot

Well-Known Member

flyangler18

Well-Known Member

hopsalot

Well-Known Member

flyangler18

Well-Known Member

hopsalot

Well-Known Member

GroovePuppy

Well-Known Member

GroovePuppy

Well-Known Member

flyangler18

Well-Known Member

GroovePuppy

Well-Known Member

flyangler18

Well-Known Member

GroovePuppy

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Latest posts

Manual Recipe Conversion

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!