Turning a Saison into a Sour

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hawgwild81

hawgwild81

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I have 5gals of saison that finished at 1.006. It's ok but not great so I was thinking I could add a fruit purée and add some CS dregs I've been building up. I was thinking of using raspberries. Do you think adding a purée would give the bugs enough sugar to work with? If so how much fruit should I use?
 
Puree should have plenty for Brett to work on. I'm not so sure the alcohol already in the saison would allow the lacto to actually sour the beer. Some brett strains to gain acidity over time though. If it were me I would make a sour beer (possibly sour mash), like a blonde and blend the two.
 
i would just pitch some lacto and add maltodextrine.

im making a sour saison soon but just using TYB farm house sour blend.
 
Lacto will be inhibited by hops and ABV. Also, it works on simple sugars, so the maltodextrine will not work. The CS dregs are a good idea, as they contain Brett and pedio, but I would not start with the fruit. Let it age with the bugs with as little airspace as possible until you get the desired flavor profile (3-9 mos wild guess). Then decide about fruit. If you choose to fruit at that point, leave it on the fruit for 1-2 mos until it is done fermenting again.
 
youreanimpulse said:
Lacto will be inhibited by hops and ABV. Also, it works on simple sugars, so the maltodextrine will not work. The CS dregs are a good idea, as they contain Brett and pedio, but I would not start with the fruit. Let it age with the bugs with as little airspace as possible until you get the desired flavor profile (3-9 mos wild guess). Then decide about fruit. If you choose to fruit at that point, leave it on the fruit for 1-2 mos until it is done fermenting again.
Click to expand...

+1 to all of this

What yeast is in the saison currently? and how many IBU?
 
BGBC said:
+1 to all of this



What yeast is in the saison currently? and how many IBU?
Click to expand...


Thanks for all the ideas.

I fermented with Belle Saison. I don't have my notes in front of me but I think the ibus were right around 35.
 
Cool, I'd still say pitch the CS dregs and nothing else at this point. There's still plenty for the brett/pedio to work on in there. Give it at least a couple months before checking back in and deciding on next steps.
 
BGBC said:
Cool, I'd still say pitch the CS dregs and nothing else at this point. There's still plenty for the brett/pedio to work on in there. Give it at least a couple months before checking back in and deciding on next steps.
Click to expand...


Sounds like a plan. Thanks!
 
I'll reiterate, add you dregs, age is a month or two and decide on a fruit and then rack onto your fruit choice. It may or may not sour but should get weird and funky from the dregs. Definitely dont sour mash bc bile doesnt taste good, and definitely do not add maltodextrine to the beer unless you want to age it out for a year.

I do this type of beer often, here is one a did a few years ago. Dont worry about it souring or not, with the Brett and the fruit character you'll be quite happy.

http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2014/05/fruit-saisons-we-use-all-parts-of.html
 
Also worth mentioning that even if this beer doesn't sour, you'll have built up a mixed culture for future use in primary.
 
Coff said:
I'll reiterate, add you dregs, age is a month or two and decide on a fruit and then rack onto your fruit choice. It may or may not sour but should get weird and funky from the dregs. Definitely dont sour mash bc bile doesnt taste good, and definitely do not add maltodextrine to the beer unless you want to age it out for a year.

I do this type of beer often, here is one a did a few years ago. Dont worry about it souring or not, with the Brett and the fruit character you'll be quite happy.

http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2014/05/fruit-saisons-we-use-all-parts-of.html
Click to expand...

When I say sour mash I mean sour mash proper, not throw caution to the wind. You don't see anyone say "boil your wort" an then someone says "don't boil, it will flow over the pot":p
 
Im not sure what you mean by sour mash proper, do you mean take care in your process? That should be assumed imo. I do sour worting in the fermenter, its a much more controllable process then sour mashing. But I tend to like to use pure culture lacto in a pasteurized wort as opposed to culturing from grains.
 
I have a "souring" saison right now. I fermented out fully with INISBC 291 Saison:Farmhouse and then pitched the dregs from a bottle of Crooked Stave Vieille. That was about 30 days ago. It has formed a pellicle now, so I won't venture to sample it for at least another 30 days. Check out this thread for more info about CS dregs and souring.
 

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