Cooling 2gals of wort with 3 gals of water

I am gonna brew up my pumpkin ale tonite, I am going to follow the recipe I found on BYo to an almost T, and do a 2 gal boil and top off in the primary. Will 3 gals of cold water cool my wort down quickly enough (I don't want to be up until 3 in the morning again), or do I need to pick up a bag of ice from 7-11? Normally I would just get the ice and not ask the question, but the wife won't be around to watch my daughter while I run to the store, and the freezer is jam packed so I can't just pick up a bag on the way home and stuff it in there.

Not entirely. But it will help quite a bit if you chill the water to refer temps before tonight.

Basically, 2gal @ 212* + 3gal @ 40* ~ 5gal @ 108*

If you get that wort down to 150 before you add the water, you should end up in the high but pitchable temps (84*). 120* and cold water gets you about perfect (72*)

Final temp = ( 2 * wort temp + 3 * cold water temp ) / 5

If wort = 212 (boiling) and cold water = 35 (fridge temp)

final temp = (2*212 + 3*35) / 5 = 106

still gotta cool it down more.

Yup, but just make sure the water doesn't freeze because the formula changes.

you really shouldn't aerate hot wort...wort that's above 90F.

search for Hot side aeration.

some don't believe in it...but why risk it?

**** it, I'm gonna figure out how to grab a bag of ice, I have a cooler sitting on the back deck, that should be able to hold it for the hour or 2 that I need.

You know, since it's only 2 gallons of wort, it would be so easy to get it down to like 150F in a small cold water bath in the sink. THEN add it to your 3 gallons of fridge temp water.

140x2 + 40x3 = 400/5 = 80F good enough.

Yup, but I don't think my turkey pot will fit into the sink (it might in the slop sink in the basement). The thing is that once my daughter goes to sleep, and if the temps don't drop fast enough, then I am stuck playing the waiting game. That is what happened with my first brew. For 2 bucks, I think my best bet is to grab some ice. Even if I end up just putting it in the freezer to use as house ice, or it melts and I just pour it in to the primary as really cold water, I figure it's the safer bet.

Do you have a big rubbermaid container or something similar so you can sit the pot in an ice bath? A bathtub will work as well.

I would recommend against adding ice to the wort (unless it is preboiled or sanitary).

Putting the pot in an ice bath while stirring the wort will get temps down fairly quick to the point you can add cold sanitized or preboiled water that will put you down alot closer to pitching temps (as Bobby_M said above).

iamjonsharp said:

Do you have a big rubbermaid container or something similar so you can sit the pot in an ice bath? A bathtub will work as well.

I would recommend against adding ice to the wort (unless it is preboiled or sanitary).

Putting the pot in an ice bath while stirring the wort will get temps down fairly quick to the point you can add cold sanitized or preboiled water that will put you down alot closer to pitching temps (as Bobby_M said above).

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I have used a 7 lb. bag of ice in every one of my dozen or so batches, and no issues so far (knock on wood). It takes the place of a gallon (well almost, 3.5 qts.) of water. A bag of ice and a gallon of water in a fermenter cools hot wort off quickly.

I know I'm going to take some flak for this. Yes, I know that I'm putting my brew in jeopardy, and yes, I know one of these times I'm going to end up with a spoiled batch. When that happens, I'll build a wort chiller. As for now, the price of two bags of ice works for me (one for an ice bath outside the fermenter), and it works quite quickly.

Cheers,

I don't have a big enough cooler, I could sit it in the bathtub, but of course that requires me to troop up to the 2nd floor with a hot bucket of wort. I think that I will try to cool the wort with a cold water bath first, and then add ice if necessary. I'm not too concerned about the ice being unsanitary, it is getting chucked into 200 degree wort, and before that it will be in a sealed bag in the fridge.

DaveGerard said:

I don't have a big enough cooler, I could sit it in the bathtub, but of course that requires me to troop up to the 2nd floor with a hot bucket of wort. I think that I will try to cool the wort with a cold water bath first, and then add ice if necessary. I'm not too concerned about the ice being unsanitary, it is getting chucked into 200 degree wort, and before that it will be in a sealed bag in the fridge.

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Dave,

Set up a 1 gal water, one bag ice mixture in your fermenter. then put that in your sink with a water/ice mixture surrounding it. It'll cool it down right quick. Then add water to 5 gallons. I'm usually pitching my yeast in 15 to 20 minutes.

Cheers,

I dump ice in mine, too. Every week now and no problems. That is how they taught it in the little class in the back of the LHBS, and that is how I have been doing it ever since.

I suppose if it's frozen anything microorganisms that could spoil your beer would not be able to survive, right? I guess if you take it directly out of the freezer and put it in you might be ok.

I've never done it, everything I've heard is to minimize contact with the wort once you are done boiling, especially adding ice or anything else.

your water should be sanitary before you freeze it, and kept sealed away from other contaminants. There is some nasty crap in your freezer that you do not want in your beer. I would never use anything from my ice tray, i'll tell you that much.

I froze preboiled water in a sanitized 1 gallon ice cream bucket, with the lid on it (for 2 days). I poured 2 gallons of hot wort directly on it. and it cooled it down immediately with no problems what so ever.

iamjonsharp said:

Final temp = ( 2 * wort temp + 3 * cold water temp ) / 5

If wort = 212 (boiling) and cold water = 35 (fridge temp)

final temp = (2*212 + 3*35) / 5 = 106

still gotta cool it down more.

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Don't care that it is off topic, but that is the greatest brewery label of all time.

so you have a turkey fryer pot but are only doing partial boils??

with hop prices shooting up, I'd start thinking about full boils for better hop utilization, and then dropping $45 on a 25' immersion chiller.

Danny013 said:

I suppose if it's frozen anything microorganisms that could spoil your beer would not be able to survive, right?

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No, freezing does not kill microrganisms. In fact, in many cases it preserves them. Like all that yeast I have in my freezer. Or this

http://www.livescience.com/animals/070828_old_dna.html
The oldest living thing has been discovered in the form of 600,000-year-old bacteria extracted from ice cores, scientists claim.

I used a combo of cold water bath and a bag of ice, and it cooled down in a reasonable amount of time, I'd say around 30 minutes. I'm sure I could get it down quicker if I added ice to the water bath, but it doesn't seem necessary.

Malkore,
This one was only a 2 gallon boil because I wanted to follow the directions of the recipe as closely as possible, although having done a 2 gallon boil and a 4 gallon boil, I like the efficiency of the smaller boils. It took so much less time to heat up, tons less time to cool down, and you don't even have to watch for boil over because there is so much space in the pot. I don't really have a ton of free time for this, so if the trade off is time vs. slightly better beer, I'm taking the shorter time.

Fair enough. Just remember that time and patience are crucial to success in the hobby. When your time allows for bigger boils, I'd jump on the chance.

Most importantly, don't get ahead of yourself. Its easy to get lured into making several batches and then forgetting about the time needed for racking, cleaning, bottling, etc. In other words since you have some time constraints make sure you think about the whole life cycle of the beer, not just brew day

I'd also suggest searching the site for 'late extract addition'. it'll help with hop utilization and lessen the darkening effect of partial boil, all extract brews (i.e. so your wheat beer doesn't end up looking as dark as an oktoberfest)

DaveGerard said:

if the trade off is time vs. slightly better beer, I'm taking the shorter time.

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I think that's a BMC marketing slogan...

Yeah, I looked up late addition when I was going to make my first brew, but decided to hold off. I figure that the 1st bunch are gonna have to be somewhat experimental anyway, until I get a rythym down wit the process. Then I can start to streamline certain things, which may allow for full boils, but right now, I can't make that work.