The ethics of sanke kegs: WTF do I do with this old keg?

So I bought a kegerator on CL. It's got an empty 1/2BBL sanke of Bud Light (blasphemy!) in it.

If I walk this thing back to a liquor store, are they going to give me a deposit back on it? Or are they just going to take it from me? Any chance a local AB distributor is going to take it back?

Here's the deal: I want to keep this thing for my personal brewing practices, but it's obviously still someone else's property. But I don't want to give it back to someone without recouping some of the expense I had to pay out to recover it for them.

So, what's the deal? Any input/advice?

Thanks!
jkpq45

sounds like you should give it back. BUT I bought my kegs off of Craigs list. I figure the company figures out that a certain number of kegs wont come back so that is in the price of the beer

Why should I give back my keg and you shouldn't give back yours?

I'm confused on the whole subject. I'm just curious to see if I'm going to get a deposit back without a receipt or knowing which store the keg originally came from. I don't have any motivation to go through this whole process unless I get a return from rescuing their property.

Why not just sell the keg to another hombrewer.
If you're having some kind of ethical crisis, and you won't be able to sleep at night, then give the keg back to ease your conscience and if you get the deposit back, consider it a bonus.
Otherwise, just keep it or sell it.

I think what Monty is saying that if YOU are concerned with the ethics of keeping it, you should try to return it. He acknowledges that it would be wrong to keep it and he's ok with that.

It's unfortunate but I don't think you'll find a way to return it and in the slim chance that someone will take it, you won't get a dime for it. You don't have the original receipt. I think what you're attempting to do is make a reasonable effort to return it under specific circumstances and if it doesn't work out, you'll feel like you did your best and can rest easy brewing on stolen property ;-)

I'm just busting your marbles.

Cut a hole in that thing and brew. All the cool kids are doing it! :fro:

Marbles duly busted.

The right answer is to return the keg--that's what I'll do. Is the general consensus that I won't get any money back for it?

I know a few people have tried to return kegs as a 3rd party and got snubbed, at least at the retail level. I'm almost positive that any store will gladly take it back and pass it on to the distributor but they won't pay you for it. The reason is that they are not in the deposit trail and won't receive that money back either.

Is the general consensus that I won't get any money back for it?

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I'd say it's pretty unlikely, but who knows? They might just hand it right back to you because you weren't the original purchaser.

Man... I can't believe you're going to be taking that thing back. Lord knows how long that keg has been in the fridge. I'm sure AB won't be missing that keg at all. I know that there's an "ethical" discussion going on here, but IMHO I don't see any bad carma floating around. As a matter of fact, maybe this was a sign from God to start brewing 10g batches! I would keep it, cut off the top, and use it for some beer making!

Well, if it's a mission from god we're talking about, maybe I should start brewing 10 gal batches.



In all seriousness, it sounds like there's no telling what's going to happen. I just need to walk into a liquor store/AB distribution center and see what happens.

It's certainly not the equivalent of mowing down a crowd of nuns with a dump truck though in almost all cases, stealing is considered "wrong". If you subscribe to the idea of moral relativism, you'll find this one on the lighter side of evil.

I know I can't walk into any store and return a keg without a receipt. I also know that the owner of "my" beer store that I go to about every week takes kegs back without question when I buy one.

If you make a good faith effort and get turned away I'd say the keg gods are appeased and brew with that bad boy.

A few facts.

Kegs cost over $100 to replace.
Kegs are the largest capital expenditure for a brewery. More is spent on kegs than ingredients, brewery equipment, bottling lines, etc.

Anyone who has stolen a keg and also complained about beer prices deserves to get punched in the penis.

Or you could keep it as a fermenter and just continue to borrow it, without destroying it by cutting the top out

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Or you could keep it as a fermenter and just continue to borrow it, without destroying it by cutting the top out

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See, this is where the questionable ethics comes in. I know it's wrong just to keep the damn thing and cut it up for a BK, but is there some agreement you sign when you rent a keg?

I'm assuming if there is that it says something about not breaking the seal or reusing the keg for purposes other than dispensing that particular brewery's beer.

remilard said:

A few facts.

Kegs cost over $100 to replace.
Kegs are the largest capital expenditure for a brewery. More is spent on kegs than ingredients, brewery equipment, bottling lines, etc.

Anyone who has stolen a keg and also complained about beer prices deserves to get punched in the penis.

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What if you steal an AB keg, and you don't complain about AB prices because you don't buy their crappy beer? Just don't steal kegs from good breweries and we're all good.

I know, I was just kidding. Your only real option is to attempt to return it. If they don't let you, then you can keep it in good conscience.

For the record, I just helped a friends family put in a kegerator for regular BMC stuff. The keg deposit is now $30 for a quarter and $40 for a half barrel!!! How moly, they used to be $10.

brew with it

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

For the record, I just helped a friends family put in a kegerator for regular BMC stuff. The keg deposit is now $30 for a quarter and $40 for a half barrel!!! How moly, they used to be $10.

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FYI: we pay between $90-$110 deposit up here. Which I always thought was reasonable given what a deposit is supposed to do.

I don't think anyone would argue against that Brad. The deposit should be very close to the replacement cost or at the very least, greater than the grey market/scrap value.

This falls into that slightly "gray" ethical area, I think. You didn't abscond the keg and, if you cannot get a deposit back, there is not an incentive to even appeal to your basic responses. This is a tough one....

Yeah-- the deposit is about $30 here. Also, I've never needed a receipt to get my deposit back. Just walked in with keg and asked for receipt.

But then, Wisconsin is funny about beer. Hell-- the total tax on beer is about 3 cents a 6 pack and hasn't been changed in decades. Every time they suggest it, people get all uppity.

remilard said:

A few facts.

Kegs cost over $100 to replace.
Kegs are the largest capital expenditure for a brewery. More is spent on kegs than ingredients, brewery equipment, bottling lines, etc.

Anyone who has stolen a keg and also complained about beer prices deserves to get punched in the penis.

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I never complain about the price of Anheuser Busch products. Probably because I don't buy them. I bought my kegs on craigslist, the posting asked for retired-legally obtained kegs. The ones I got were not the prettiest, but they work.

Just a thought - before you lug that thing around trying to get a refund, why not just make some phone calls? I'd say that even though you don't have the receipt, the Distributor should give you the refund, as a form of reward. If they don't feel ethically obligated to do that, then I might think that maybe they just don't want their keg back.

kornkob said:

But then, Wisconsin is funny about beer. Hell-- the total tax on beer is about 3 cents a 6 pack and hasn't been changed in decades. Every time they suggest it, people get all uppity.

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Why would you even bring up raising the beer tax!!!!! Ahhhhhh


















seriously, don't bring it up.

Lil' Sparky said:

What if you steal an AB keg, and you don't complain about AB prices because you don't buy their crappy beer? Just don't steal kegs from good breweries and we're all good.

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Only problem is, besides the AB logo on that keg, what makes that keg all that different than the one that Lazy Magnolia or any other breweries use?

This means AB has to buy more kegs which means.....remaining kegs on the market are more scarce meaning prices go up on kegs....this means smaller breweries have to pay more to get and fill said kegs, even if they rent them, meaning you have to pay even MORE when you get a keg of good stuff.

Trickle down is a pain-in-the-neck, ain't it?

Although my previous comment was (mostly) tongue in cheek, I seriously doubt that homebrewers using AB kegs have a serious impact in the operational costs for microbrews. That seems like a real stretch to me.

You are in possession of a sanke keg although you did not initiate a purchase of beer.

You can either cut a hole in the top and some small ones in the sides near the bottom, and brew beer in it or:

you can block it into your vehicle with some empty milk crates to keep it from rolling around, and take it back at your expense, and hand it to someone else, if they will take it back.

Because everybody has had at least one milk crate at some point in their life.

I feel like dirt. In Michigan, we have a bottle deposit of 10¢ per long neck and they take those glass bottles to recycle and reuse. I just keep mine and bottle beer in them. I never thought I'd be depriving a brewer of his glass bottles. That means that AB has to buy more bottles to replace the bottles I keep.

Trickle down sucks.

mmb said:

I feel like dirt. In Michigan, we have a bottle deposit of 10¢ per long neck and they take those glass bottles to recycle and reuse. I just keep mine and bottle beer in them. I never thought I'd be depriving a brewer of his glass bottles. That means that AB has to buy more bottles to replace the bottles I keep.

Trickle down sucks.

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Damm you mmb, that was my NEXT post!

+1 on the phone call to see what they say. I purchased mine direct from a brewery and asked how much a new one costs. In the quantities they buy them in with the name stamped it is approx $110 per keg. With all the work I have done on cleaning them I wish I had bought new ones.

I've always thought that if you are going to steal make sure it's stainless steel. Seriously do what you think is right.

I vote the phone call, tell them where it is so that THEY can pick it up if they want it as long as they give you the deposit or a finder's fee. I realise you probably have no legal right to a fee, but it will show that you are reluctant to give it up easily. It's not like you stole it, but they certainly did lose it. Careless buggars.

PS if they give you any crap, just tell them that the gnome population does not like them very much. That should scare them off, nobody wants to deal with a nutter.

Brew with it. If anyone has a real problem with you screwing AB, then they should feel more than welcome to not drink your beer.

Actually... scratch that... send it to me and I'lll brew with it.

If you returned it to the liquor I work at part time you would get a deposit back, even if you did not have a receipt. Then when the AB distributor came and picked up our empties we would get credit for it, and when they sent it back to the brewery they would get credit for it. I know that in some states they require a receipt and possibly some stores require it if the state doesn't but I don't think you will have a problem getting a deposit back. Call and ask first.

Realistically: Brew with it.

Morally: Call distributor. Tell them you have keg, don't have receipt, would like deposit back (whatever is average in your area). If they agree to refunding the deposit - then morally you should return it (I never made a phone call...). If they refuse - you've made a good faith effort to return the keg. They are depriving you of your deposit. Moral dilemma solved.

I've always thought that when you put a deposit on something, then you don't return it, you have forfeited the deposit and legally purchased the item. Although it's not under normal circumstances. Someone has lost their deposit on it so it isn't stolen property anymore. I don't get why you didn't give it back right away if you didn't want it.

make a reflux still out of it and use it to distill water for your brewing:cross: