Pumpkin Saison recipe critique?

Hey all, I love pumpkin beers and thought I'd throw a twist into this years pumpkin brew. How about a pumpkin saison? Sounds wonderful to me! Let me know what you think about this recipe:

OG: 1.057
FG: 1.003
ABV: 7.1%
SRM: 17
IBU: 28

7# pale ale malt
1# munich malt
1# oat malt
.75# chocolate rye malt
2# cane sugar
2 cans of pumpkin, double baked at 350F
1# rice hulls

Mash at 150F.

Boil for 60 minutes.
23 IBU Magnum at 60 min
5 IBU Pearle at 15 min

Ferment with Wyeast 3711. Still thinking about fermentation temps, but I'm sure I'll start low and raise to the 80s.

What do you think about the grain bill and hop schedule?

Thanks in advance!

I would mash a little higher and maybe sub some base malt for the two pounds of sugar. 3711 attenuates like a mad man, and you don't want this beer to end up too thin. I'd maybe mash at 154 and sub out 1 pound of sugar for base malt.

With 3711 I've decided that I like the flavor profile from the yeast if I start the fermentation at 70ish and just let it go.

Also, no pumpkin spices? To be honest, the pumpkin itself doesn't do too much for you without the spices.

I'd add the traditional spices of nutmeg (freshly ground preferred), cinnamon (in stick form), and the other stuff if you want to add ginger or allspice. I don't like them in my beer so I leave them out.

You can probably mash as high as 158 with 3711 and leave the sugar out of the recipe. Going that high the 3711 might leave some residual sugars. I'd do single infusion at least at 156 but closer to 160 with this yeast. Not sure how much of a difference it really makes based on all experiences with this yeast.

I'm actually making a 11gal batch of my pumpkin ale this year. I'm splitting it in two fermentors and in one I'm adding either WLP001 or WLP028. The other will get WLP510 Bastagone Ale yeast which is purported to be the Orval strain. I figure I'd give it a shot to see how it does with a pumpkin ale.

barrooze said:

Hey all, I love pumpkin beers and thought I'd throw a twist into this years pumpkin brew. How about a pumpkin saison? Sounds wonderful to me! Let me know what you think about this recipe:

OG: 1.057
FG: 1.003
ABV: 7.1%
SRM: 17
IBU: 28

7# pale ale malt
1# munich malt
1# oat malt
.75# chocolate rye malt
2# cane sugar
2 cans of pumpkin, double baked at 350F
1# rice hulls

Mash at 150F.

Boil for 60 minutes.
23 IBU Magnum at 60 min
5 IBU Pearle at 15 min

Ferment with Wyeast 3711. Still thinking about fermentation temps, but I'm sure I'll start low and raise to the 80s.

What do you think about the grain bill and hop schedule?

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

Honestly, I can't fault the recipe tooo much. I think it will be great. I think 2 lbs of sugar, might be a little much but, nothing catastrophic. also think what your trying to get from the pumpkin in the beer, do you want pumpkin? Or pumpkin spice? My guess would be pumpkin spice, but the yeast add alot of flavor tooo, and I'm not a big fan of spicing beer. I mash all my saisons @148 for 90 min. I typically use belgian pilsner malt though, with great results, but 3711 I hear is a beast. I think this will be a good recipe to tweak, but a good starting point. Best of luck!

Thanks for the comments. I was thinking about adding the spices, but wasn't sure how they'd coalesce with the yeast flavors. I will definitely be putting them in at some point, probably at packaging so I can control the flavors.

Regarding the higher mash temp, if I mashed as high as 158F I'd get a lot more dextrines, which the yeast can't ferment. With the oats, rye, and pumpkin I felt I would be getting enough mouthfeel and body. I do want the beer to ferment pretty low and let the yeast do it's thing. This is why I had the sugar and the low mash temp. Correct me if I'm wrong, but mashing at a higher temp AND removing the sugar will definitely give me a much higher FG. I was looking for something <= 1.010. I think I'll do an HWT suggests and bump the mash temp up to 153-154 and sub some more 2-row for the sugar.

Thanks for the feedback! It's greatly appreciated!

hadabar said:

Honestly, I can't fault the recipe tooo much. I think it will be great. I think 2 lbs of sugar, might be a little much but, nothing catastrophic. also think what your trying to get from the pumpkin in the beer, do you want pumpkin? Or pumpkin spice? My guess would be pumpkin spice, but the yeast add alot of flavor tooo, and I'm not a big fan of spicing beer. I mash all my saisons @148 for 90 min. I typically use belgian pilsner malt though, with great results, but 3711 I hear is a beast. I think this will be a good recipe to tweak, but a good starting point. Best of luck!

Click to expand...

Yea, I was initially thinking mashing at 148-149F, but I usually do that when I use pilsner malt. I haven't done that with 2-row yet. Also, I don't want it to ferment out as much as I would for a regular saison, so again, the higher temp is needed.

As for what I'm going for, I love the flavor of pumpkin and am hoping mashing a bunch of it will give me a nice round, mouthfeel. I do like pumpkin pie spices, but only on the subtle side for beer (for pie, now that's another story...). I'm definitely going to be sampling throughout fermentation and conditioning to determine whether I need the spices or not. I'm just stoked to finally getting around to brewing a saison. I've been wanting to make one for a while!

Stoked for you! I have a smash saison on deck that I'm going to brew any day now....

Only reason I suggested a high mash is because of how voracious this strain can act. If you plan on spicing you'll want some sweetness to play with the spices but a super dry pumpkin with very subtle spicing should be nice. I'd go no more than .5grams per 5 gallons of each spice. I did 1g of grains of paradise in a saison and my wit with 9gal batches and I might have wanted to go a little.

Gotcha. I have a jar of "Pumpkin Pie Spice" at home, so I think when it comes to packaging, I'll dose a sample with a measured amount and figure out the best balance. I think I may up the mash temp a little (152F) to keep a bit of residual sweetness. Thanks for the suggestions!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/wyeast-3711-french-saison-131414/index27.html#post3008435

Not sure what you're hoping for as a FG but there's a testimony of moderate mash temp and low FG. Not trying to talk you into my idea of mashing high but just want to let you know what the yeast is capable if you haven't used it before.

I do really appreciate the help. I haven't used this yeast before and have heard that it is a monster, which I'm definitely ok with. I love dry beers, especially saisons, but don't want a bone dry one in this case. Maybe I will up the mash temp a bit to the mid-upper 150s. I've always been interested in trying a 160 mash temp beer, but wanted to leave that for a pale ale or something along those lines. I think I'll do 156F with just .5# of the sugar. Why the hell not, right? Afterall it's an experimental brew that will need to be refined in the future.

Does oat and rye react differently at higher mash temps?

Oats and rye will be fine with the higher mash temp.

I have harvested Wyeast Biere de Garde (3725) yeast that I enjoyed in my Biere de Garde and in my Summer Saison, and I was thinking about using it in a Pumpkin Ale. You guys have any experience with it? Think it would be good here, or should I stick with my Cali V?

Go for it. You won't know if you love it or hate it until you try it.

Hey, I know this is an ancient post already but I was just curious if you ever got around to brewing this beer? I've been thinking of making a pumpkin saison for quite some time now too and have been wondering what the results might be with wyeast 3711.