Newbie looking for guidance in IN

Hey whats up everyone. I am reading a lot of material on homebrew, looking to start my first batch. Would appreciate any advice on where, and what to start with.

This is easy dude:

a) decide what kind of beer you like to drink. after all, if you don't like it, why make it?
b) work out how to make it. it will be a lot easier to make than you think.

Lagering aside, there aren't many variations between making say an IPA and a hefeweizen. There's a lot in the details, which will come more important over time, but for now, get a simple kit and some ingredients for the kind of beer you like, and have at it!

Welcome.
I'm in the Fort. Where are you at?

Thanks man. I know what kind of beer I like, been drinking good beer for a long time now. Decided it was time to make some. What I mean is what method do you recommend for my first brew. Extract, AG, or somewhere in between. Reall just looking for a good place to get my feet wet.

Im in Anderson. Good to see Indiana in here. Still realing about those GD Colts. Any advice for my first brew?

Also, anyone in IN know where the closest, or any homebrew shop is to me. Im in Anderson. About 30 miles NE of Indy.

Welcome to the forum... there are some that have simply jumped off the deep end straight to All-Grain brewing, but I would guess many (like myself) did it by the numbers...

Beer Kit (Extract brewing)
Partial Mash brewing
All grain brewing

You learn little tidbits about what is going on by working your way up the brewing ladder all the while enjoying tasty beer.... so depends on you... you like to take baby steps, or jump in head first. Either way is not bad as long as you are prepared. Good luck.

Would appreciate any advice on where, and what to start with.

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I would start with an "extract with grains" ale kit from a homebrew supply house that puts together tried and true recipe ingredients for you. The links below are to the index of recipe kits from some online suppliers:

MoreBeer
Austin Homebrew Supply
HopTech
Midwest Homebrew

Pick an ale that sounds like what you would want to drink and order the recipe kit. You will need a yeast to go with it -- for starting out, order a dry yeast and get two (or three) spare packages.

If you don't have any equipment, you can look at those same sites for a beginner's kit of equipment. Normally the equipment kits do not come with a brew pot. For partial boil extract with grains, five gallons is nice but you can easily do it in a three gallon (12 quart) pot as well. Just boil about 2.5 gallons of water and top off. You don't need a secondary fermenter but they are nice to have; personally I prefer the plastic Better Bottle carboys over the glass and I think most of the suppliers will substitute (may affect price, I don't know). But others will (correctly) tell you that with care you can use glass for years without any problems . . . I just worry about the high consequences that might occur should there be a slip with a full glass carboy. You will also need a grain bag for steeping the specialty grains, though you can "brew your own" (pun intended) with a large piece of cheesecloth.

I would also take a look at the site where John Palmer has the first edition of his book How to Brew available online. The first of the links below is for brewing a very simple extract, a Cincinnati Pale Ale. The second link talks about adding specialty grains. You can use whatever ingredients kit you buy and follow the process Palmer outlines.

Extract Recipe
Specialty Grains

The above sections will get you started, but the more of the book you read the more you will understand what you are doing. I would suggest ordering the book as well. It gets you the latest edition and it is handy to have around. The one thing I would ignore in the Palmer specialty grain section is the line on removing the steeped grains: " Remove the grain bag from the pot, giving it a squeeze to drain the excess wort and avoid dripping on the stove." Don't squeeze it; I think doing so can cause harsh tannins to be released into the wort. What I (now) do is to put the grain bag in a strainer that I sit over the brew kettle and let drain for about a minute.

Good luck!

Rick

BWRIGHT said:

Thanks man. I know what kind of beer I like, been drinking good beer for a long time now. Decided it was time to make some. What I mean is what method do you recommend for my first brew. Extract, AG, or somewhere in between. Reall just looking for a good place to get my feet wet.

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gotcha - i would go with extract + steeping grains to start with. but when you are buying stuff - buy with an eye on the future. if you can afford it, get a boil kettle that will allow you to do full wort boils, needs to be 7.5gallon+. all of the rest of the equipment in the midwest kit will be usable going forward. my only regret so far is not buying a big enough boil put - mine is only 22quart and will need to be upgraded before i can go AG!

Yeah, I'm leaning towards an extract with steeping grains approach now. I wonder though, do they sell "extract with grains" kits or will it be up to me to pick out my own grains. The reason I ask is because I haven't been to the homebrew store yet. I'm worried it may be like going to an Auto-Zone and the freaking guy that supposed to know everything about cars can't tell me what kind of battery to buy. I don't want my first batch to just be succesful, I want it to taste good. Also, would these kits provide me with the proper yeast?

BWRIGHT:
wonder though, do they sell "extract with grains" kits

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Rick:
I would start with an "extract with grains" ale kit from a homebrew supply house that puts together tried and true recipe ingredients for you. The links below are to the index of recipe kits from some online suppliers:

MoreBeer
Austin Homebrew Supply
HopTech
Midwest Homebrew

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Most of the extract kits at these sites are with specialty grains.

Rick

Forum reading is a great start. If you have the time, a trip to Great Fermentations in Indy might be a good idea. I have not been there but many of our club members stop in there when they are in Indy. Anita is a great help to new brewers.
http://www.greatfermentations.com/
I would pick a style you like and go from there. I wouldn't suggest a Barleywine or Imperial anything, but a Pale Ale or a Mild Ale or a Porter would be a good start.
As far as gear, I have been AG from day one and I have a ghetto setup.

Turkey fryer, keg kettle and a Coleman Extreme cooler for a mash tun.

If you are sure this is the hobby for you, go big on your boil pot, you won't regret it.

Brew On!

Bob

To all with smaller boil pots and want to go all-grain:

A full size pot is preferable, but NOT a requirement. Don't waste your money on a super cheap pot because of impatience. Save money up for a decent one. In the mean-time you CAN do all-grain with the smaller pot. All you have to do is increase your grain bill accordingly and don't sparge, or only sparge as much as you have room for. Then top off with pre-boiled water in the fermenter just like you have been doing with your extract batches. If you buy your base malt by the 50lb bag (which I recommend for obvious economic reasons), grain is cheap enough that the increase in cost caused by your inefficiency is tiny. Just take your recipe and input it into a recipe calculator like this one: http://hbd.org/recipator/ and set the efficiency to 60%. Then increase all of the grains by 10% at a time until you get back to your target OG. Be sure to tell your calculator the correct boil volume so that your hop utilization is accurate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a full boil is bad (I do them every time), just that you can get away without one until you find a good full size pot that you can afford. And you don't have to stick to extract just because you don't have one.

Thanks man. I saw that great fermentations down in Indy. They seem to have a good handle on things. AG from day one huh. That's impressive. Had any major complications yet? Also, I already have a keg. How the hell do I get the top off without a plasma torch or something similar?

Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming. I want to figure this out quickly so I can get to making good beer and more advanced beers. I'll take any advice I can get.

CAREFULLY use an angle grinder with a cut-off wheel. Be Very careful to avoid binding the wheel and fragmenting it. I've exploded a few wheels over the years and once a big chunk cracked my safety glasses. That'll give ya pee pee stain every time. Anyways, then switch to a regular grinding disk and knock the sharp edge off.

How did you cut the top off your keg? Bob?

BWRIGHT said:

Also, anyone in IN know where the closest, or any homebrew shop is to me. Im in Anderson. About 30 miles NE of Indy.

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Here's the homebrew shop list from BYO for IN:

IN Crown Point Kennywood Brewing Supply 219-765-BREW
IN Elkhart Quality Wine & Ale Supply Mail: 108 S. Elkhart Ave.
Store: 530 E. Lexington Ave. S 46516 574-295-9975
IN Evansville Co-op Corner General Store 5015 N. St. Joe Ave. 47720 1-800-398-9214
IN Fort Wayne The Brewers Art Supply 1520 N. Wells St. 46808 260-426-7399
IN Indianapolis Great Fermentations of Indiana 5127 East 65th St. 46220 317-257-WINE (9463) 317-257-9465
IN Jasper R.O. Homebrew & Wine Supplies 3274 Bittersweet Dr. 47546 812-482-3211
IN Muncie The Wine-N-Vine 1524 East McGalliard Road 47303 765-282-3300 765-282-3400

I used a couple of things. 1/8" diamond drill bits, a dremel with a cutoff wheel and a sawzall recip with a metal cutting blade and a grinder.
I started with the Dremel and with the wheels I had it was going to take about 13 days, so I got the holes started and then sawzalled the rest. I used the grinder to clean up the cut.
USE HEARING PROTECTION AND BE MINDFUL OF YOUR NEIGHBORS!!
Don't forget to scour the cut surfaces with "Bar Keepers Friend" to passify the Stainless steel so it won't rust.

Here's a shot of the top. It's not perfect but WTH!

Make sure you get a lid to go on the kettle and cut the hole to fit the lid. Mine is very close and I have dropped the lid in a couple of times. You can also see the homemade wort chiller too. Low-Dough Ghetto!

What exactly are the advantages of using a keg boiler vs. a good thick stock pot. say 10 gallons. And if there is a big difference, does it matter if the keg is aluminum and not stainless?

Well, there is a furious debate as to health concerns and having flavors leech from cooking in aluminum. I'm not going to start into that one!
I know guys that boil in aluminum pots and they don't have any trouble. I have aluminum pots for cooking food! Your choice.
The guy that taught me AG has a shiny $250 boil pot that he's anal about keeping pristine and unscratched, with good reason, $$$. My keggle, on the other hand can get rolled around on the driveway or tossed in the yard and it doesn't hurt it a bit.
There is also a difference in the boil-off rate between the two. In my keg, I boil off half of what he does in an hour. Good? bad? I don't know.

Bob

do you mean you evaporate less water than he does when you're boiling? That is a confusing statement to me. Doesn't the amount of boil off directly corelate to the characteristics of the beer. I guess if you're doing a partial boil it wouldn't matter. You just add more to the fermenter, but if you're doing a full boil wouldn't any inconsistencies in boil off rate completely change the character of the wort? Please straighten me out. I'm trying to get all this worked out. Also, couldn't he just turn down the flame?

Ah, another of the great brew mysteries.
His shorter kettle with a wide opening boils off more than the narrow keg kettle that's taller. As far as the roll of the boil, they look similar. I don't know what the differences are in wort character, we haven't brewed the same recipes.

The main factors in boil off is the area of the pot and amount of heat being pushed into the wort by the burner. As stated already, a taller skinnier pot will have less boil off. a wider shorter pot will have more surface area for evaporation to happen and therefore more water will leave. You could reduce boil off by turning down the burner, but dependable hop utilization and hot break could be compromised if you go too far. In AG there is an advantage to increasing the boil off amount. If you collect 7.5 gallons of wort from the mash tun and boil it down to 5.5 gallons, you'll have higher efficiency than if you have to sparge less as a result of only collecting 6.5 gallons of wort. This usually comes into play when you're making a really high gravity beer. With 15lbs of grain in the mash tun, it's hard to collect all of the sugars without using more water. I've had to boil wort for half an hour without any hops just to make room in the kettle for that last half a gallon of run off.

There is one other advantage to using a high quality pot. They usually have multiple layers of different kinds of metal in the bottom which disperses heat better than the relatively thin stainless skin of a keg. If you plan to do some extract brews, the likelyhood of scortching your extract goes down with a nice pot. The keggle is no big deal, you just have to be extra extra careful to stir until your arms fall off while you add the extract. Of course, it's probably a good idea to do that no matter what kind of pot you have, so perhaps this point is.... well.... pointless

hey welcome to the forum. I am down in Bloomington. I can second Great Fermentations. they are really good at taking the time to talk to you about getting started. I am actually going there first thing tomorow and picking up about 150lb of grain and about a pound of hops for my next brews.

As for your kettle it's all about what you think will work best for you. If you have the capability to go big, i would do it right off the bat, or else when you want to upgrade you'll be spending that money again. The big deal about using kegs for kettles is that they are 15 gal so you can do ten gallon batches or 5 if you want. it is perfectly alright to use a stock pot that big if you can find one. Also if you have or can get a pretty sturdy turkey fryer burner, you will find that it is much easier to do your boils and your wife (if you have one) will probably apreciate the fact that you are not taking up her kitchen space.

I started out using a 20 quart pot on my stove with extracts and it served me well for about 4 years then i upgraded to AG and a couple of Kegs for HLT and boil kettle. You can check out my gallery for picks of my set up.

There are quite a few homebrew clubs in the indy area too, you may look into if there are any in your area. They will know at great fermentations.

So what you're telling me is the amount of boil off doesnt matter? I understand the need to keep up the temp for the hot break. So I suppose that is more important than boiling off more water. I appreciate the help. I've got a keg but its going to be a ***** to cut it because I don't have the proper tools. I'll probably go with a nice thick pot. I hear you pirate man. Do your thing down in Bloomington. If you've got any advice for me let me have it. I'm going to brew my first batch soon and I would really like to not screw it up. Also, what are you guys thoughts on secondary fermentation. Necessary? Like I said I'm going to start with and extract and steep grains for my first attempt. I also plan on bottling. I'm getting some conflicting info about whether or not to rehydrate the yeast before pitching, any thoughts about that?

I secondary some beers, those that get dry hopped or those I want uber-clear, but is it neccesary? No. Time will clear any beer. I just finished a keg of Hefe that had been around about three months and was clear as a bell. Krystal Hefe!
I don't rehydrate dry yeast. I've pitched tubes of liquid direct and I've made starters.

Alright, well I'm going down to the LHMS this morning. Well its not local, its about an hour away. Plan on walking out with everything I need to start my first batch. Any last minute advice would help my cause greatly. Put a n00b on the right path.

BWRIGHT said:

So what you're telling me is the amount of boil off doesnt matter?

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Yes, when brewing with extract, the amount of water that boils off doesn't matter. If you end up with less than 5.5 gallons in the fermenter, just add preboiled water and your OG will be correct.

Rehydrating dry yeast is a good idea, but not necessary for beers with an OG under 1.050. If you do any beers any bigger than that, I'd recommend rehydrating two packets of yeast before pitching.

OK. So I've decided to transfer to the secondary. Now this is my first brew, but I've read a ton of info on this forum. GREAT HELP. Now, like everyone knows I've read some conflicting info on when to rack into secondary and when to bottle. I've got a Brewer's Best Engilsh Brown Ale in my primary. Supposedly it is similar to New Castle, but it's not a clone. I wanted to start with something I'm familar with so I can taste the differences. So here is how I did it.....I did a full boil of 6.25 gallons of distilled water. From reading further I think maybe this was a bit much to start with, but that is what LHBS said to start with. I have a 26 qt. pot with a 20" dia. so I think I had a good amount of boil off. I steeped 8 oz. of Crystal Malt 60L. Brought up to 150F then let steep for 20min. Drained the bag without squeezing. Brought to boil. Added 3.3lbs of plain Amber LME and 2lbs of plain Amber DME. Stirred to prevent scorch on bottom and returned to boil. Added 1oz of Willamette Hops and boiled 55 mins. Then, added 1/2oz of Willamette (finishing hops) for last 5mins of boil. Chilled wort in ice bath with lid OFF for first 1/2 hr. Then put lid on with room to vent until down to 7OF. (Worth Chiller will be my next investment). Took OG reading and was at 1.040 which was right on. Racked into 6.5G carboy. I tried to swhish the wort around as it entered the carboy to aerate (wish now i would have shaken it). Pitched 1 pkg of Nottingham dried ale yeast directly into carboy. Gave it a little rock back and forth just to wet the yeast. I now have it fermenting with a double chamber airlock. It's been 24hrs and the lock is bubbling about 1 a sec and half. So now that I've made you read this much blabble can someone point out any mistakes. I sanitized everythint I used with Iodapohor (sure that spelling is wrong) 1TBS to 5G of water. Fermenting at 70F. When should I rack into secondary carboy? How long in secondary? I am aware of the 1-2-3 rule. Thanks to anyone that took the time to read this extravagant explantation.

Dont Forget...

Butler Winery, Inc. 1022 N. College Ave. Bloomington, IN 47404

fermenator said:

Here's the homebrew shop list from BYO for IN:

IN Crown Point Kennywood Brewing Supply 219-765-BREW
IN Elkhart Quality Wine & Ale Supply Mail: 108 S. Elkhart Ave.
Store: 530 E. Lexington Ave. S 46516 574-295-9975
IN Evansville Co-op Corner General Store 5015 N. St. Joe Ave. 47720 1-800-398-9214
IN Fort Wayne The Brewers Art Supply 1520 N. Wells St. 46808 260-426-7399
IN Indianapolis Great Fermentations of Indiana 5127 East 65th St. 46220 317-257-WINE (9463) 317-257-9465
IN Jasper R.O. Homebrew & Wine Supplies 3274 Bittersweet Dr. 47546 812-482-3211
IN Muncie The Wine-N-Vine 1524 East McGalliard Road 47303 765-282-3300 765-282-3400

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Good to know Butler. I got my equipment and brew kit at Great Expectations. If you guys are as helpful as they were then you're doing it right.

BWRIGHT said:

Good to know Butler. I got my equipment and brew kit at Great Expectations. If you guys are as helpful as they were then you're doing it right.

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Hey man congrats on the first brew. I live in Greenwood, IN and I have been brewing for about 5 years now. If you want you can always send me PM with questions. I brew about once a month AG and you are more than welcome to come see how I do it. Darrin and Anita at Great Fermentations are great.

Welcome...and yeah I am still bummed about the Colts too.

Steeping is usually done at 165-170 for 20 minutes. I prefer to steep at 155-160 for as much as 60 minutes (normally more like 40). There's nothing wrong with the way you did it. It's all personal preference so long as you don't have grains in there when the water goes over 170F. Everything else sounds fine. Nottingham is a VERY robust yeast and dry yeast packets have plenty of active cells. The oxygenation (ie shaking the carboy) is to help the yeast reproduce, but with dry nottingham it's not super-critical. So long as you're patient, no doubt you'll have a great brew. If your fermentation temp is at the low end of the range (65-68) consider adjusting the 1-2-3 rule into 2-2-3.

Hey whats up Verm. I was just in Greenwood last weekend. I have some friends down there. I think they live in Barrington Heights? Something like that. OK, so my primary is still going good. It's been about 60 hrs and still bubbling every 12 seconds or so. My primary temp is fluctuating between 67 and 70. I can't get it to be completely consistent. Is this temp flux OK and if not, what is the best way to keep a steady temp?