Apfelwein with cider

Apfelwein with cider. Has anyone tried it? When I started out I used Cider from the store. My last batch was a mix of store cider and juice concintrate.

Also how well does apple juice and DME mix?

I have mixed dme with apple juice with no problem. I boiled about 1/2 gal of apple juice and dissolved 1lb extra pale malt and 1lb wheat.

Cider is apple juice in the US. The only difference is cider is usually NOT from concentrate. I think that most "cider" tastes much better than most "juice" so I would think it would make better apfelwein. I didn't care for my first apfelwein but I may try again with some fresh local cider instead to see what kind of difference it makes.

DME should mix as easily with cider as it does with water. The only problem is that if you cook cider you run the risk of pectin haze from the fruit.

Craig

CBBaron said:

Cider is apple juice in the US. The only difference is cider is usually NOT from concentrate.

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I would like to add that a common way of distinguishing between the two is filtration. A generally accepted rule is that juice is filtered to have no "pulp" or sediment unlike most ciders. Also companies tend to leave plenty of sediment in cider to have that more natural and fresh look to it.

Both should work well, but just like comparing two brands, there will always be differences and preferences. Sometimes cider with sediment will be harder to clear, or at least take longer.

Tusch said:

I would like to add that a common way of distinguishing between the two is filtration. A generally accepted rule is that juice is filtered to have no "pulp" or sediment unlike most ciders. Also companies tend to leave plenty of sediment in cider to have that more natural and fresh look to it.

Both should work well, but just like comparing two brands, there will always be differences and preferences. Sometimes cider with sediment will be harder to clear, or at least take longer.

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I thought the filtered rule was pretty common but the largest local orchard just recently started filtering their cider. So at least in our area filtered apple cider is quite common. However even the filtered cider is much better than the apple juice from concentrate.

As for clearing problems. I made a cyser using unfiltered local cider and it cleared brilliantly without any problems or additives. I do not think that using unfiltered cider will cause any problems though you may have slightly more trub.

Craig

I'd say that the filtration level indicates cider or juice. Although there is no hard rule for labeling.

I made 1 gallon of Apfelwein, using 3/4 of a half-gallon of cider I had left over, and the rest with juice. The apfelwein turned out clean and crisp, with not a lot of flavor. This might be normal, as this is the only apfelwein i've ever tasted!

As far as I can tell, the cider did nothing to enhance the apfelwein, and only made more sediment in the carboy. I'd probably skip it next time, or use fresh crushed and pressed cider from my own press (once I build it).

Just bumping this thread. I plan to try the EdWort recipe using some farm cider I froze a couple months ago (I note that EdWort's recipe is for store-bought juice). Just wondering if there is any more input on this topic. The farm cider is much darker, rounder, and quite different from filtered juice. I guess I am just curious if the end result is a lot different from "EdWort's Apfelwein."

Nope. Or rather, no more different than the same variation you'll find between various juices. Go for it.

if you are truely making apfelwein, that is using a wine yeast, then dont wast your money on real fresh pressed cider. however, if you want an actual hard cider, then certainly go for the real fresh cider.

the difference is that with wine yeast like Montrachet (in Eds recipe) it will take all the sweetness and flavor away so it finishes totally dry. if thats what you want, fine, but i wouldnt waste the money on real cider.

if you want it to taste like hard cider, and not so much like white wine, use an ale yeast like safale 04 or sweet mead yeast. this will leave more of the fruity flavor in the cider.

so to sum it up-
if you want a wine like product= use a wine yeast and cheap apple juice
if you want a hard cider= use sweet mead yeast/ale yeast and cider

yes dont wasit the money on prime apple cider seeing as its most often more expnsive then the simple apple juice that Edwort advises, so for Apfelwine just use simple juice from your local store.... If i want higher ABV apfelwine with a that fresh powerful apple taste i use really high quality organic apple juice almost 12 dallors a gallon.... useing champagne or dry wine yeast

also as said if you want to have hard cider use fresh preshed or if you can find unfiltered apple cider at your local store then you can make cider with just juice or a couple pounds of brown sugar... and use an ale or lager yeast...

i know this is a repetition of what others have said but you can also mix the two recipes as you want... but it wont be apfelwine

Cheers

Thanks. These replies were very helpful. As for price, I got the cider for $3.50 a gallon and have about 7 gallons in the freezer. So I don't think I can get juice much cheaper than that. But I get your point. I have a few gallon glass jugs and think I will try a few different combinations. Again, thanks for the comments!

Bumping this thread again...So how did the cider Apfelwein turn out? My father in law has an orchard so I thought I would try making some Apfelwein later this year after the apples are ready. Just curious to see if it turned out ok.

jtvinny said:

I have mixed dme with apple juice with no problem. I boiled about 1/2 gal of apple juice and dissolved 1lb extra pale malt and 1lb wheat.

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Just use a couple quarts of water next time instead of the AJ.

Boiling AJ can lead to some other issues.