help me diagnose my problem

I have a previous thread where I talked about an attempt to make an oktoberfest in aug using wyeast 1007. It did not go well and I would like to know why.

recipe: 1# cara45 steeped, 6.4# amber LME, 1.6# pilsen DME, 1 oz hallertauer (60min)

yeast: wy1007 starter did not go well and so 1/2gal starter was all pitched.

Ferm: OG not taken. FG 1.016 after 6 weeks. tried a swamp cooler, but temps were 65-70 for 1 week then 60-65 for 5 weeks.

Bottled: 4.5 oz corn sugar priming. tasted nice and malty.

tasting:
2 weeks - wonderful malty, toffee, caramel taste
6 weeks - fruity like fruit punch
3 months - highly carbonated (hard not pour because glass fills with foam), fruity almost like a soda.

- I degassed a bottle and took a gravity and it is now 1.012
- every bottle is the same

what went wrong?

- I know the fermenting temp was too high. I am never doing another hybrid in aug unless I have a fermenting chamber. It could be an infection, but which one?

JBmadtown said:

I have a previous thread where I talked about an attempt to make an oktoberfest in aug using wyeast 1007. It did not go well and I would like to know why.

recipe: 1# cara45 steeped, 6.4# amber LME, 1.6# pilsen DME, 1 oz hallertauer (60min)

yeast: wy1007 starter did not go well and so 1/2gal starter was all pitched.

Ferm: OG not taken. FG 1.016 after 6 weeks. tried a swamp cooler, but temps were 65-70 for 1 week then 60-65 for 5 weeks.

Bottled: 4.5 oz corn sugar priming. tasted nice and malty.

tasting:
2 weeks - wonderful malty, toffee, caramel taste
6 weeks - fruity like fruit punch
3 months - highly carbonated (hard not pour because glass fills with foam), fruity almost like a soda.

- I degassed a bottle and took a gravity and it is now 1.012
- every bottle is the same

what went wrong?

- I know the fermenting temp was too high. I am never doing another hybrid in aug unless I have a fermenting chamber. It could be an infection, but which one?

Click to expand...

Was your FG stable at 1.016 for several days prior to bottling? If so, it could be an infection. Something in those bottles could be eating the sugars and puking out more CO2. Do, they gush within a few seconds of opening? Since every bottle is the same, it could have gotten infected at almost any point going into the bottles. However, a classic place that can be problematic is an infected spigot on your bottling bucket. I would put those bottles in the refrigerator or someplace suitably cold and drink them sooner rather than later.

fruity flavors are produced by esters of hot fermentation. This is common and preferred for some styles, like Belgian's or a bavarian Hefeweizen, but for other types not at all. for an oktoberfest its supposed to be a lager, no? from the BJCP guide it calls it a lager, but you used a german ale yeast for it... That may also be the problem. That yeast is a German altbier type yeast, and would likely intentionally have some fruity esters. Per their own description:

A true top cropping yeast with low ester formation and a broad temperature range. Fermentation at higher temperatures may produce mild fruitiness

This leads me to believe you did two things that oculd have bene done differently:

1. pitched the wrong style of yeast for the style of beer, you should have used a lager yeast.

2. fermented a bit hot.

In another batch of the exact same style you may want to try a lager yeast, and ferment near 54 degrees F. if you can do that. If not, the beer shouldn't be considered 'wasted' as this is a common flavor, aging will help tame it, and in theory you've just created a new style of fruity beer. If you don't like the flavor, maybe a friend that likes belgians and/or a german style hefe would like it...

Was your FG stable at 1.016 for several days prior to bottling?

I checked it at 4 weeks and then at 6 weeks and it was stable.

Do, they gush within a few seconds of opening?

No gushers just highly carbonated.

However, a classic place that can be problematic is an infected spigot on your bottling bucket.

Have since made an amber that turned out beautifully.

I think this is most likely, but I have not tasted an infected beer before.

an oktoberfest its supposed to be a lager, no?

I don't have the ability to lager and it was aug so I was "fudging" it with a hybrid yeast and a swamp cooler. I know for sure this was one of my biggest problems. Does this explain everything? That is what I am not sure about.

fruity flavors are produced by esters of hot fermentation. This is common and preferred for some styles, like Belgian's or a bavarian Hefeweizen

I have made a hefe and a tripel and this fruitiness is nothing like that. Truthfully, it is almost like fruit punch soda. In part, I think because of the high carbonation.

Besides an infection my other best guess is just a really bad fermentation. I tasted the wort at 4 weeks and it was like fruit punch then. It sat for another 2 weeks and the fruitiness seemed to go away. This does make me think the fermentation played a huge role in this.

I can't explain
- increased carbonation
- fruitiness disappeared and then came back.

JBmadtown said:

Was your FG stable at 1.016 for several days prior to bottling?

I checked it at 4 weeks and then at 6 weeks and it was stable.

Do, they gush within a few seconds of opening?

No gushers just highly carbonated.

However, a classic place that can be problematic is an infected spigot on your bottling bucket.

Have since made an amber that turned out beautifully.

I think this is most likely, but I have not tasted an infected beer before.

Click to expand...

Hard to say for sure then. I had a gusher infection with one of my first batches, actually, I believe it was my second five gallon batch ever. The gushers didn't happen right away, it took a couple of months and then it was in every single bottle, beer still tasted the same...which was crappy, but that had nothing to do with an infection.

Increased carbonation is because before bottling you were at 1.016 and now after bottling you opened one and you're at 1.012. usually the gravity won't go down much at all, because you add bottling sugar and the yeast will just eat up that sugar, and the carbonation goes up, and the FG stays about the same, you had a .004 drop, which means MORE fermentation happened in the bottles... Be careful they could be close to bottle bombs, so play nicely w/ them. I don't know what level of SG change equates to bombs but its always good to be safe. the disappearing fruitiness may have happened as it settled a bit, and then reappeared when bottled and it fermented a bit again. Let it sit for a few more weeks, and give it a go. Most often bad flavors will mellow out after time. If it was really spoiled, you'd not even be asking questions you'd taste it and go EWWWWWW, BARFFFFF... I've had one beer go bad and it tasted HORRID. It sounds more like off flavors, and they do usually settle over time. If it doesn't you at least gave the beer a chance.

if, aside from 'fruity' it tastes fine (no 'medicinal' flavors, sour flavors, dank/musty flavors) I'd say there was some renewed fermentation in the bottle. sometimes the bottling process rouses yeast and they find sugars they missed, or a bit of oxygen gets introduced (or the priming sugar) and the yeast become unstressed and do some more work.

One thing I've been doing for my yeast that I don't see mentioned 'all the time' is using yeast nutrient in all my beers, not just the starters. wort is a fairly nutrient rich environment, but a bit of nutrient sure won't hurt anything. just another cheap piece of insurance really.