Phenols

What would cause phenols to become present in an extract batch?

High fermentation temps would be my diagnosis....Where were those at for you?

Yeast would!

Can you elaborate on what happened? Yeast produces phenols, sometimes at low temps, like belgian yeasts, and some yeast produce phenols at high temps when they are stressed. Sometimes you want phenols, like a Hefe, and sometimes you don't, like and IPA.

Btw, extract has nothing to do with it.

I read in "Fearless Brewing" that phenols are produced during mashing and sparging, oversparging, the use of chlorinated water, and the introduction of wild yeast.

I used an extract kit, with air tight fermentation, so none of those should effect it.

Fermentation temperature was high though...78-82%

I only tasted them in one bottle...each bottle has tasted different...lol...but I was curious based on the "Fearless Brewing" guidelines what would cause it.

Spyd3r said:

I read in "Fearless Brewing" that phenols are produced during mashing and sparging, oversparging, the use of chlorinated water, and the introduction of wild yeast.

I used an extract kit, with air tight fermentation, so none of those should effect it.

Fermentation temperature was high though...78-82%

I only tasted them in one bottle...each bottle has tasted different...lol...but I was curious based on the "Fearless Brewing" guidelines what would cause it.

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What style are you brewing? I'll tell you right now the phenols came from high fermentation. 78 is up there, 82 is like saisson temp. Unless it was a hefe this is certainly your cause. Can't speak for the book, but that doesn't sound right to me.

Yeah, I have no way to control fermentation right now. My fridge can hold temps of 50-52, and my house is hot as balls in the summer. I put the fermenter in the inner most closet, but it was still around those temps.

The bottle that I could taste phenols in was a 22oz...the others that I've tried throughout the aging process were 12oz and negative phenol. Could this play a role? Bigger aging bottle in warmer temperatures?

It's an English Brown...Brewers Best kit

Hmmm that's weird, I would think it would be noticable in all of them. When you say phenols describe....

plastic aftertaste

Did some reasearch:
Cause: Bacterial Contamination can be responsible, or not rinsing your equipment thoroughly after sanitizing with bleach is another culprit. Also, phenols can actually be leached from the grain husks by overcrushing or oversparging your malt. So I was wrong on that...

I would say it is from not sanitizing your 22oz bottle well enough.

By the way search swamp cooler no this form, and try that on your next ferementation to control temps.

I soaked and sanitized all of the bottles...granted some must've been more clean than others lol...but I didn't rinse after the sanitation bath.

Perhaps the bigger bottle's surface area had more sanitizer on it than the others?

Thanks for your help.

Spyd3r said:

I soaked and sanitized all of the bottles...granted some must've been more clean than others lol...but I didn't rinse after the sanitation bath.

Perhaps the bigger bottle's surface area had more sanitizer on it than the others?

Thanks for your help.

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Last thing...If you were using a no-rinse sanatizer...IE-Starsan or Iodopher then that would not cause the phenols.

I used B-Brite that came with my starter kit.

Spyd3r said:

I read in "Fearless Brewing" that phenols are produced during mashing and sparging, oversparging, the use of chlorinated water, and the introduction of wild yeast.

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The book seems to have grossly simplified "Phenols". Grain husks specifcally contain tannins, or polyphenols. They are specific phenol compound that can cause a bitter astringent, not the aftertaste you described. Polyphenols are found in husks, leaves, fruit skin and much more.

Phenolics are usually yeast derived.

Spyd3r said:

plastic aftertaste

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This leads me to believe you are experiencing chlorophenols.

From The Brew Wiki (linked above)

Phenols can also react with chlorine to form chlorophenols. Some of these have very low taste thresholds. Chlorophenols smell like band-aids or nappies (unused ones), or a distinctive plasticy/medicinal aroma. (note: If your beer smells like a used nappy then you have other problems).

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Check your water source. I recently had a bad Chlorophenol problem show up in my beer when I moved. Turns out our water supplier uses chloramine to treat the water. Unlike chlorine, chloramine is very stable and stays in water and wort through a boil. The best solution is to filter your water slowly or use campden tablets. I opted for campden tablets because they are cheap, and get rid of chlorine much faster than filtering. You can use one tablet to treat all of the water for a batch.

I used bottled spring water.

I've since gotten a water filtration system. It's good for 20,000 gallons...approx 10 years of normal use. Not bad for $30 lol

Here's the book I'm referencing: Fearless Brewing

Bottled spring water doesn't always mean you are safe. Most packaged water is from a municipal source anyways.

This is a good thread: Spring water, chlorophenols, and disgusted

I wouldn't directly rule out wild yeast. I think new brewers are quick to jump on the infection train though. If you have a wild yeast infection, keep an eye on the bottles. They will continue to metabolize the longer chained sugars the brewers yeast couldn't. In a few weeks, the bottles will gush when opened. If its bacterial, you probably won't see gushers though.

In the meantime, I'd go over your procedures. Upgrade to a solid no rinse sanitizer like StarSan. Re-visit your sanitation and cleaning procedures too. Everything that touches beer on the cold side must be thoroughly cleaned and sanitized. Use PBW or Oxyclean for cleaning bottles and fermenters. Soaking works great. Rinse them thoroughly and let dry, then sanitize with Starsan.

Are you using tap water for anything? Mixing sanitizer or even rinsing? You could be experiencing a residual effect. A water filter like you have is ok, but you have to run it really slow to actually filter out chlorine and chloramine. Check your water supplier to see what they use. If you can determine your supplier uses chloramine, campden tablets will get rid of it.