Metallic/astringent

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SirJoshuaIV

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I have had the last few batches of brew come out smelling very off after fermentation as well as tasting rather astringent. The beers taste like metal to a degree, and have an astringent dryness on the tongue. There is a smell that is very hard to place, but smells a bit of metal and something that I cannot seem to place (but I know the smell isnt right). The astringency and taste seem to get worse with age. two of the brews tasted fine out of secondary, but a few weeks in bottles and the metallic/astringency showed up.

This has never happened to any of my beers before, and I am using the same process, same recipes as before. I brew with spring water, and all I can think is the mineral content may have changed on me. I do use a filter but it does not take out all of the dissolved iron and metals.

Has anyone ever had this issue? Any thoughts? Iron content too high maybe? I am testing the water but in the mean time I was hoping someone might have some thoughts. Never had to dump a batch before, but I had to dump the last 5.
 
Last 5?!?!

Dude....


Well, have you tried getting the water analyzed or maybe using distilled water that you alter yourself to see if that makes a difference?
 
Last 5?!?!

Dude....


Well, have you tried getting the water analyzed or maybe using distilled water that you alter yourself to see if that makes a difference?

Never had the problem so I never needed it analyzed. Next brew will be a different water source.

and yes, 5! I had two brews sitting in the fermenters, and then did 3 consecutive brews, all before I knew there was a problem.

Now I'm scared to brew again because I am not entirely sure what caused it. All I can think of is water, so I am ruling that out first. If it's not water, not sure where to look next. Any thoughts? There is a distinctive metallic taste, it is astringent, and has a vegatable type smell (my nose isnt the best so describing the smell is hard). I boil for 90 minutes, and cool my wort in well under 10 minutes since my spring water is about 40 degrees out of the tap... so im thinking DMS is not the issue.
 
Metallic & astringent sounds like a mash problem. I've had that problem before. I switched to using all Reverse Osmosis water and built up my water profiles from there, as its much easier than accounting for what's in your own water.

I'd check your water for extra rust in the pipes maybe, and def try a batch with just RO or distilled water.
 
Metallic flavors in your beers are perceived as the taste of a rusty nail, or coin-like, tinny and blood-like. One source of these off-flavors is from aluminum pots or other un-plated steel surfaces. High iron concentrations in the brewing water can account for some of these flavors as well.



When stainless steel is cleaned without passivating the surface (oxidizing to produce a layer of protective oxide on the surface) the unprotected steel can also cause off flavors.



Check the quality of your bottle caps, filter your water if necessary or use bottled water if you must, and keep all of your grain stored under proper conditions to prevent or reduce the coin-like off-flavors in your beer.

from http://www.winning-homebrew.com/metallic-flavors.html

Good luck!
--LexusChris
 
Metallic
Metallic flavors are usually caused by unprotected metals dissolving into the wort but can also be caused by the hydrolysis of lipids in poorly stored malts. Iron and aluminum can cause metallic flavors leaching into the wort during the boil. The small amount could be considered to be nutritional if it weren't for the bad taste. Nicks and cracks ceramic coated steel pots are a common cause as are high iron levels in well water. Stainless steel pots will not contribute any metallic flavors. Aluminum pots usually won't cause metallic flavors unless the brewing water is alkaline with a pH level greater than 9. Shiny new aluminum pots will sometimes turn black when boiling water due to chlorine and carbonates in the water.

The protective (grayish) oxides of aluminum can be enhanced by heating the clean pot in a dry oven at 250°F for about 6 hours.

from http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

:mug:
--LexusChris
 
Metallic & astringent sounds like a mash problem. I've had that problem before. I switched to using all Reverse Osmosis water and built up my water profiles from there, as its much easier than accounting for what's in your own water.

I'd check your water for extra rust in the pipes maybe, and def try a batch with just RO or distilled water.

I was thinking it could be a mash problem, I typically mash around 154. I usually batch sparge at 170. I brew outside so the temps can drop quickly. Any ideas of what I should try differently if it's mash related?

Im swapping out all my hoses, I brew in all stainless. I do use a corona mill rigged up with a drill, so the hulls do usually get a bit more than just cracked, but not powdery. I have heard this can cause a problem, however many people say they grind their grain up very fine and never have issues.
 
Its not your mash temps (probably), it's the salt & mineral composition of your mash water. If your mineral composition starts changing without you knowing it, your mash will be affected and it could result in an astringent beer, among other possible off-flavors.

After reading about the myriad of ways to adjust your water profile for given styles, I personally decided to start with straight Reserve Osmosis water, and to add Acid Malt, Calcium Chloride and/or Gypsum to (1) drop the pH of the beer to acceptable ranges, and (2) add flavor to the beer (the chloride accents malty flavors, the gypsum increase hop sharpness, acid malt drops pH without affecting flavor).

I would recommend that you download the "EZ Water Spreadsheet" (Google for it) and use all RO or Distilled water for a test batch. Here's how you'll use the spreadsheet if you are making a beer with 10lb base malt, 1lb crystal and .5lb roasted malt, for example (beers with roasted malt were the one's messing up my mashes originally):

I use 3.5gal water in the mash, and 3gal for my sparge, so I enter those numbers in the spreadsheet, and I indicate that its 100% RO/Distilled. I enter 10lb of Base Malt (flagged as Maris Otter in this case), and I also enter .5lb of roasted malt and 1lb of Crystal Malt. The spreadsheet asks for the Lovibond value of the crystal because the darker the grain, the more it drives down mash pH. I'll use 60L for this example.

With nothing else going into the mash, the spreadsheet tells me that my estimated mash pH will be 5.66, which is too high.

However, I haven't added the proper brewing salts to make a dark beer like this anyway. Using all RO water with no extra minerals is great for Pilsners, but not Porters. I'll enter 2g each of Calcium Chloride and Gypsum, and I'll check the box for "adjust sparge". This means that I'm putting that same amount into the sparge as well. So 4g each Calc. Chloride and Gypsum are going into the beer, but only 2g each are going into the mash (and thus affecting mash pH). The amount of these minerals that you add is determined by the style of beer and there's quite a bit of variance. However, if you use 4g CalChlor and 4g Gypsum, it puts you in the 'average' range for most. The water profile section of the spreadsheet will tell you the recommended ranges for these minerals, so you can play around with it and do some research to figure out the flavor contributions they are bringing to the table. The short answer (in my opinion) is that if you get your minerals in that 'average' range, the beer will taste fine, so don't sweat it too much at first.

This brings my estimated mash pH down to 5.61, which is still a little high. You can do a few things here, including (a) adding more Calc Chloride or Gypsum, (b) adding more dark roasted malt to the mash, or (c) adding a neutral, flavorless acid.

In my example, I don't want to add any more minerals, which can affect the flavor of the beer, and I still prefer the flavor of less roasted grain in the mash (cold steeping works well for me) so I'll instead opt for option (c) and add some "Acidulated Malt" to my mash. This is just a type of base malt made by the Germans that is acidified and can be used to drive down mash pH a little. I'll enter 2oz in the spreadsheet and I can see that it's saying my mash pH will now be 5.5, which is in the "desired" range. You should add your acid malt just like a normal grain, so it should be ran through the mill with the other grains. You can also use lactic acid, but you have to add that by the milliliter, and is a little trickier to measure.

A perfect experiment would be to brew the same beer back to back, using the above method once, and just your normal water on the second attempt. And then compare the flavor differences and decide which you prefer.

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tl;dr; Use all Reverse Osmosis Water, Download EZ Water Calculator spreadsheet, enter your water volumes and your grain, adjust Calc Chlor and/or Gypsum and/or Acid Malt until the spreadsheet tells you that your pH is good to go. Brew and enjoy.

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Since adopting this approach, I haven't had a beer come out astringent yet, and I even made an Oatmeal Porter that I am really enjoying right now, despite not being a big fan of porters, and pretty much hating stouts right now. So any astringency would make a dark beer undrinkable to me. I do have to say that I also haven't been eaten by a rainbow-colored tiger yet since adopting this approach either, so it might just be a coincidence, but I don't think it is. And ideally you should buy a pH meter and check your mash as you go, but I haven't bothered with that final step yet myself. If I start getting some funky flavors perhaps I will.
 
wow, thank you for the wealth of information!!!! I fixed my issue. I now have a 12 stage filtration system, up from my 8 stages. I filter it down to .05 microns. No more excess iron in my water. I am now also using ph 5.2 which has worked wonders. Beer has been turning out great since. Thank you so much for all the information everyone!!

Currently brewing a Juniper IPA, lets see how it turns out with good water.
 
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