Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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I made a 10g batch yesterday. Used 20ml of extract. Did all the late additions according to the recipe. I let BeerSmith mess me up on the calculated losses. I sparged and collected 14g, evidently my boil on my new setup wasn't aggressive enough, since I transferred 13g to fermenter at 1.055 instead of 1.072...... Good thing is I have a 3 g Cornie. Bad thing is it's 6% vs 8% abv. Oh well, might make a more session able beer.

I monitored runoff gravity with the MFM and started at 1.060 and stopped at 1.010. Guess my new rig is way more efficient than I thought!
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Today was brew day; here's what we did, how we did it, and where it landed us.

Instead of using the original recipe on the first page of the thread, we went with Bobbrews recipe and then followed one of his suggestions in post number 2956. Our goal was a 5g recipe and we achieved just over that with the following numbers using a no-sparge, BIAB process:

9g of Strike (total water volume)
11 lb. 11.7 oz.: Pearl (86.9%)
9.9 oz.: White Wheat Malt (4.6%)
8.5 oz.: Caramalt (3.9%)
17 mL: HopShot @ 75min
9.9 oz.: Turbinado Sugar @ Flame-out (4.6%)
2.5 oz.: Simcoe @ Whirlpool/Steep - 40min
1 oz.: Centennial @ Whirlpool/Steep - 40min
0.75 oz.: Columbus @ Whirlpool/Steep - 40min
0.75 oz.: Comet @ Whirlpool/Steep - 40min
1.5 packs: GigaYeast Vermont Ale IPA
1.50 oz.: Simcoe @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz.: Centennial @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz.: Columbus @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz.: Comet @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.50 oz.: Apollo @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

We brought our strike temp to 155° and were able to achieve ~151° at mash for 60 minutes. We then upped our temp to ~169° where we mashed-out for ten minutes. Upon pulling the bag an initiating our squeeze, we collected approx. 8.1g of wort.

After hot break dissipated, we injected the 17mL of HopShot and let it boil for 75 minutes (based on a seemingly increased boil-off rate, we were forced to cut short of the full 90 due to perceived volume in the boil kettle (GREAT decision on our part!)). Per Bobbrew's post, we elected to go the HopShot increase route to increase the bittering.

We dropped the chiller and brought the wort down to 170° to begin the whirlpool/steep and used the burner to create a balance between 162° and 170° (averaging at ~165°) for a 40 minute period. Each hop addition was placed into separate mesh bags and removed at the conclusion of the steep. I'd like to note that we tasted a small sample during this phase and will say that it was INCREDIBLY bitter!

Upon completing the cooling, we pitched into 1.5 packs of GigaYeast GY054. Due to calculated viability, we were at 181 billion cells in one pack (dated March 11th, 2015). Two packs would have dropped twice that (362 billion cells) so we dropped one pack straight and, using a 1-cup, Pyrex measure, measured slightly over half of the second pouch and added it in. This incredibly unscientific method 'should' equate to approximately 280 to 290 billion cells towards our calculcated target of 253.8 billion. Long story short, one pack wasn't going to be enough and two would have been too much. We opted out of creating a starter due to the small, starter volume we would have created and didn't want to add starter volume into what was likely going to be a tight fermenter as it was.

In the end, we collected just over 5 gallons of beer (approx 5.1 gallons) at an OG of 1.074 or 1.075 (depending on who was looking through the refractometer).

We're on the fence about fermentation times, however. We're reading mixed suggestions about letting it primary for four short days and then secondary-ing for ten. Traditionally, we've primary-ed for a week and then secondary-ed for another; any suggestions?

Our dry-hop routine will include the above listing, however we are considering increasing the Simcoe, Centennial, Columbus, and Comet additions by 0.125 oz. (1.625 oz. respectively). We've got a few days to decide on that, again, feedback on this idea would be helpful.

Well, that's about it.... If you hung in this long, thanks! We'd welcome any feedback if you've got any to offer, otherwise, we'll post back in once we get to the next step of the process. Thanks for all the help those of you in the thread have provided!
 
Intruged to hear how the comet turns out...my biggest struggle in brewing is figuring out what hops work together and also the times and techniques used with various hops. I am really trying to understand how to balance fruit and dank pine with minimal floral, I dislike anything more than a little bit of floral....to me that's the best profile in a good IPA, dank pine and fruit bomb.
 
Did I miss a few pages? When did consensus jump from 6ml of hopshot (page 1 vegan brewer original recipe) to now (bobbrews post 2956)?
 
Did I miss a few pages? When did consensus jump from 6ml of hopshot (page 1 vegan brewer original recipe) to now (bobbrews post 2956)?

Not sure if you missed anything. Vegan hasn't been active since the end of 2014 and the OR is dated back to 2013 without any visible 'last updated' mentions. Because of this, I looked towards more recent attempts from active members to take our spin.

But, just because two people (or was it three) made the jump to increase HopShot levels doesn't make it a consensus. Like I stated before, I've never had the original and am only basing this attempt off of what other people have said. As Bob's recipe was the latest, it got the first attempt; we'll scale backwards, or forwards, as needed.
 
Our dry-hop routine will include the above listing, however we are considering increasing the Simcoe, Centennial, Columbus, and Comet additions by 0.125 oz. (1.625 oz. respectively). We've got a few days to decide on that, again, feedback on this idea would be helpful.

You're already over 1 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer as it is. And when you rack the 5.1 gallons you collected to secondary, some of that will be lost to trub.

Did I miss a few pages? When did consensus jump from 6ml of hopshot

HBT Heady Topper clone attempts are continuing to evolve. While the page 1 recipe will create a fine beer, it is not a perfect clone for Heady Topper. It is lacking the appropriate bitterness and/or contains too much caramalt, and the hop profile is not completely nailed. No actual hops are boiled in the real Heady Topper either. Additionally, I'm in favor of a 148-149 F, 90 minute mash and substituting about 4-5% turbinado for base malt to aid dryness. The water profile is also extremely important.

If I were to clone again, I would advise gaining some IBUs during the whirlpool instead of relying on 100% of the isomerization at boil start. Again, no actual hops should be boiled:

1.073/1.074 OG
1.010/1.011 FG
7.5 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch, collected in primary

12lbs, 84.2% Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
12oz, 5.30% Turbinado Sugar
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Wheat
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Caramalt

14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes
2.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.00 oz. Centennial pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Columbus pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Comet pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Columbus pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Comet pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then after ferm slows down drastically or completes, rack to secondary and ramp up to 68-70 F. Be wary of ambient temperatures. You don't want the wort in the primary going over say 64 F for the first week.



^The majority of these hops are very piney, dank(marijuana), and full of pungent grapefruit. Centennial is really the only somewhat fruity hop. I am open to minor tweaks if you guys attempt this beer and are familiar with what these hops bring to the table.
 
Conan @ 63 F, then after ferm slows down drastically or completes, rack to secondary and ramp up to 68-70 F. Be wary of ambient temperatures. You don't want the wort in the primary going over say 64 F for the first week.







You're already over 1 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer as it is. And when you rack the 5.1 gallons you collected to secondary, some of that will be lost to trub.







HBT Heady Topper clone attempts are continuing to evolve. While the page 1 recipe will create a fine beer, it is not a perfect clone for Heady Topper. It is lacking the appropriate bitterness, contains too much caramalt, and the hop profile is not completely nailed.


We have it set at 68 right now. And it's bubbling like crazy and blowing through the blow off tube. 64 I thought was a very low end number for this yeast so we just went middle of the road with 68. Once it's done we will let it clean up at the same temp.
 
We have it set at 68 right now. And it's bubbling like crazy and blowing through the blow off tube. 64 I thought was a very low end number for this yeast so we just went middle of the road with 68. Once it's done we will let it clean up at the same temp.
 
I have fermented at 68 with conan before a couple of time...its fine but in my experience clean at that temp. Not a lot of character really so 63 or 64 is where the "magic" happens. Conan is finicky, make sure you ramp up temp when it slows.
 
I think John was screwing with me, but I asked him what where some of the late hops and he said Nelson Sauvin and Hallertau

Again, he is family and likes to screw with people.

I think the clone is damn close as it is.
 
think in a month or two I will be trying the recipe above with the comet additions can't wait because my first version is drinking amazing now if only I could find a dam can of heady I would be even happier to compare
 
think in a month or two I will be trying the recipe above with the comet additions can't wait because my first version is drinking amazing now if only I could find a dam can of heady I would be even happier to compare

I had to trade a couple Pliny for it..but it can be found..
 
I think John was screwing with me, but I asked him what where some of the late hops and he said Nelson Sauvin and Hallertau

Again, he is family and likes to screw with people.

I think the clone is damn close as it is.

iv literally thought about brewing a clone by doing the exact opposite of everything john says, so if he says no citra, use citra and so on ha ha
 
Yea I saw that might pick a vial up to give his a try tried all the others and one I harvested might as well In sciences name right lol
 
Your beer should turn out fantastic. I just brewed an all mosaic IPA pushed through simcoe and mosaic...a little too fruity, needs more dankness and it will be a super beer [emoji108]
 
OFF TOPIC:

Recipe looks like this, if interested.

23# - Optic
3# - Flaked Wheat
1# - CaraRed
1# - Simplicity Candi Sugar
20ml Hopshot @ 60
3oz Simcoe @ Steep for 30
1.5oz Mosaic @ Steep for 30
1.5oz Citra @ Steep for 30
1oz Summit @ Steep for 30
1oz Chinook @ Steep for 30

Steep Hops added 5 min after flameout and allowed to naturally cool to 165f. Remainder of steep time to be done at 165f

3oz Simcoe @ DH
1.5oz Chinook @ DH
1.5oz Summit @ DH
1oz Mosaic @ DH
1oz Citra @ DH

Dry Hop split between initial 4 day charge then another 4 day charge after removing first DH. Both charges to be done at 75F.
 
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My randition on the heady topper...it's an all mosaic (20ml hop shot) pushed through simcoe and mosaic. It's good, it's fruity, needs a little more dankness..but a great beer never the less.

Funny thing I was was pondering about heady...what is the technique that leaves so much yeast and hops in his cans...it's like he's pushing a very well mixed up first conditioned beer straight into cans???
 
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My randition on the heady topper...it's an all mosaic (20ml hop shot) pushed through simcoe and mosaic. It's good, it's fruity, needs a little more dankness..but a great beer never the less.

Funny thing I was was pondering about heady...what is the technique that leaves so much yeast and hops in his cans...it's like he's pushing a very well mixed up first conditioned beer straight into cans???

Conan does not flocculate out all that well. That is part of it, I think the sheer amount of hop oils in solution contribute as well.
 
I know in one of the interviews..... Maybe on "The Tap Handle" podcast, he mentioned that most/much of the cloudiness is not actually yeast, but proteins and from dry hopping.

This would make sense as I have heavily dry hopped many clear beers in a secondary and they have become cloudy.
 
Just an FYI, if you let a Conan yeast cake (proped from a can) sit in the fridge since August and decide to use it, it will give you 90% att. I had an FG of 1.003 from a SG of 1.060. (New system and I diluted by collecting too much) Its good but dry of course….. I know some will say infection, but I first dumped it on a brown ale with the same results (just thought I mashed lower than I thought). The yeast is going to be ceremoniously dumped. I will buy new from Yeast Bay next.

I drank a whole pint from the fermenter and it was good, can't wait till its carbonated. Its always better after but I never sat down and drank a whole pint of freshly fermented beer, so we will see….
 
Interesting. I had some ~9 month old Conan yeast in my fridge. Harvested from can back in mid 2013, but I always saved a portion of the yeast from a starter for saving. I just revived it in a two step starter, then used a portion in a 1 gal batch (saved a small portion for later) and it got me 78% attenuation in the 1 gal batch (1.061 to 1.012), which is what I was expecting. I'm going to pitch the entire cake in my 3rd attempt at this recipe in a couple weeks.
 
The Conan yeast I got from a can has been giving me 85-93% attenuation consistently for the last 18 months, no need to let it sit in the fridge for any particular amount of time.
 
12.75 lb United Kingdom - Pearl 37 2.1 82.9%
13 oz American - Caramel / Crystal 15L 35 15 5.3%
13 oz American - White Wheat 40 2.8 5.3%
1 lb Soft Candi Sugar - Blond 38 5 6.5%
15.38 lb Total
Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
10ml Hop Extract ? Boil 60 min
2 oz Simcoe Pellet 12.7 Boil 0 min
1 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 0 min
0.5 oz Apollo Pellet 20 Boil 0 min
1 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Whirlpool at 180 °F 15 min
1 oz simcoe Pellet 12.7 Whirlpool at 180 °F 15 min
1 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Whirlpool at 180 °F 15 min
0.5 oz Centennial Pellet 10 Whirlpool at 180 °F 15 min
0.5 oz apollo Pellet 20 Whirlpool at 180 °F 15 min
2 oz Simcoe Pellet 12.7 Dry Hop 4 days
1 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Dry Hop 4 days
1 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Dry Hop 4 days
1 oz Centennial Pellet 10 Dry Hop 4 days
0.5 oz apollo Pellet 20 Dry Hop 4 days
Show Summary View
Mash Guidelines
Amount Description Type Temp Time
-- Infusion 151 F 60 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.33 qt/lb
Other Ingredients
Amount Name Type Use Time
10 ml hopshot Other Boil 60 min
 
12.75 lbUnited Kingdom - Pearl372.182.9%
13 ozAmerican - Caramel / Crystal 15L35155.3%
13 ozAmerican - White Wheat402.85.3%
1 lbSoft Candi Sugar - Blond3856.5%
15.38 lbTotal
Hops
AmountVarietyTypeAAUseTimeIBU
10ml Hop Extract ?Boil60 min
2 ozSimcoePellet12.7Boil0 min
1 ozColumbusPellet15Boil0 min
0.5 ozApolloPellet20Boil0 min
1 ozColumbusPellet15Whirlpool at 180 °F15 min
1 ozsimcoePellet12.7Whirlpool at 180 °F15 min
1 ozAmarilloPellet8.6Whirlpool at 180 °F15 min
0.5 ozCentennialPellet10Whirlpool at 180 °F15 min
0.5 ozapolloPellet20Whirlpool at 180 °F15 min
2 ozSimcoePellet12.7Dry Hop4 days
1 ozColumbusPellet15Dry Hop4 days
1 ozAmarilloPellet8.6Dry Hop4 days
1 ozCentennialPellet10Dry Hop4 days
0.5 ozapolloPellet20Dry Hop4 days
Show Summary View
Mash Guidelines
AmountDescriptionTypeTempTime
--Infusion151 F60 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.33qt/lb
Other Ingredients
AmountNameTypeUseTime
10 mlhopshotOtherBoil60 min


Assuming Conan yeast of course, did you culture from a can, or buy yeast bay, giga yeast, etc?
 
Cool. Gonna be doing something very similar to this in a week or two. Just dropped the Conan out of an IPA batch tonight (used yeast bay as well) and will use that for a large starter for a Heady clone very similar to yours.
 
Quick help here guys!

Not exactly a heady clone, but heady style with NZ and Australian hops.

I'm going to FWH, 20~min addition, then loads of 5min to Flamout, Hopstand, and a few stages of dry hopping.

BUT, my issue. No ferm chamber. Using yeast bay vermont, and my ambient is 67 degrees. How many days should I keep it in a swamp cooler before letting it ramp up?

Cheers!
 
+1 to 3-4 days, that is probably the danger zone where you don't want temp. to get away from you as the yeast will be generating their own heat too.
 
Would you wait a few hours until the yeast starts to get going before adding the ice to the bath? Like will the ice drop the temp too low off the start and put the yeast to sleep?

Or just pitch yeast and right into the ice bath?

Always been a little confused on this, for any style beer not just this one.

Cheers
 
I have not used a water bath for temp. control..... so, others may have better advice than me. However, in general, I would always rather a beer was starting cooler and warming up as opposed to warming up, and then trying to cool it back down. That said..... you don't want it outrageously cool to start. With most beers I do with conan, I chill to 58-60. I ferment in an ambient temp of 60-62, fermentation will elevate the temp of the beer to 64-66, and then after several days and most active fermentation I will put it in a place where it can finish out at 68-70 or so.

Hopefully others will have some more specific water bath strategies for you.
 
Heady Topper Clone Recipe Attempt 4 from http://www.signpostbrewing.com/heady-topper-clone-brew-4-0/

Batch Size: 5.00 gal

Boil Size: 6.47

11lb 4oz Pearl Malt (84.9%)- SRM 2.4
12 oz Caramalt (5.7%)- SRM 17
12 oz White Wheat (5.7%)- SRM 1.7
8 oz Turbinado Sugar (3.8%)- Added at flameout.
Mash at 150 degrees for 60 minutes.

Boil Time: 90 min

10.00 ml** *Hopshot- Boil 90.0 min- 117.8 IBUs
1.00 oz*** Simcoe[13.00 %] Boil 5.0 min-8.3 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo- Boil 5.0 min -4.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Boil 0.0 min – 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [12.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs

1.00 oz** *Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [17.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs

Split dry hop in half and add half on day 14 and day 21. Carb on day 25.


Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG** *Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG** *Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %** *Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.5 %
Bitterness: 130.7 IBUs** *Calories: 249.4 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 6.4 SRM

http://www.signpostbrewing.com/heady-topper-clone-brew-4-0/

I know I decided on dry hop day to cut down the Columbus from 1.50 ounce to 1 ounce. I think I also replaced that half ounce with something else, but I can't remember. I remember going up to 0.75 ounces of something in dryhop 1, it was either Amarillo or Centennial. The 2nd stage was 1 oz Simcoe, 0.5 Columbus, 0.5 Amarillo, 0.5 Centennial, and 0.25 Apollo though.

Just want to make sure what Aroma Steep is meant in the version 4 recipe above. Can someone please clarify. Does this mean steeping for 30 minutes before cooling? If so, why not just throw the hops in at boil 0.0 minutes. Does the steep include whirlpool?

I'm missing something here. My brain's not working.

Thanks....
 
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