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Lunarpancake

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New to brewing in general but I really want to start with a cider. I have purchased and read a few recommended books on cider brewing and have been trolling this forum for a good 2 weeks before registering...... however I am still confused about some things. I've done searches for some good threads that would hopefully have almost a step by step run through of cider making but haven't found anything.

I am clear with the process 'till after pressing. I have tons of questions so instead of posting about each one I thought someone could just point me to a good thread for me to read.


Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Welcome to the forums! Unfortunately I won't be online for very long right now otherwise I would just give you a quick write up of how I do my process. It's actually not that complicated, but us cider makers like to perfect the process so we make it as complicated as we can :)

Feel free to ask any questions you have in this thread and I'm sure enough of us will help you through your first cider. Ah, and do you have the book "Cider: Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet & Hard Cider"? I love this book, and if you have it I can refer you to specific sections that give even greater detailed answers to any of your questions.
 
Welcome to the forums! Unfortunately I won't be online for very long right now otherwise I would just give you a quick write up of how I do my process. It's actually not that complicated, but us cider makers like to perfect the process so we make it as complicated as we can :)

Feel free to ask any questions you have in this thread and I'm sure enough of us will help you through your first cider. Ah, and do you have the book "Cider: Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet & Hard Cider"? I love this book, and if you have it I can refer you to specific sections that give even greater detailed answers to any of your questions.

Thanks for the reply, the book I have is "Craft Cider Making" I have already skimmed through it pretty thoroughly but as with everything I read about brewing there are some holes in the information.

Now that I too have some time to type out my situation heres what I have planned already:


-I plan on picking up a starter brew kit from a site like Rebel Brewer. This is the exact kit ive been looking at http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Deluxe-Equipment-Kit.html

- I have a very large local orchard that even produces homemade non-alcoholic cider. Im not sure if they put preservatives or pasturize yet but I plan on finding out. If they do I still have a good local place to get fresh off the tree apples.

- I have a very good idea how to make a press for the apples using an old (cleaned up) car jack.

From this point on I understand what needs to be done but am a little hazy on EXACTLY how to do it, what to look for...etc.
 
For your cider kit, I'd recommend using a 6 gal better bottle instead of a brew pail as your primary. They are much easier for adding sugar or honey, keeping sealed, being able to see what is going on, etc. I'd also recommend skipping bottles and going right to kegs. You'll need to spend about 100 bucks for the CO2 tank and regulator and used kegs are about 20-25 bucks. Then you wont need bottles, the capper, filler, etc. which should knock 50 bucks off your kit price. Basically this kit from Northern Brewer, except that if you look around you can get most of it used for half the price. Craigslist usually has lots of homebrew equipment:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/starter-kits/ultimate-starter-kit.html

Hopefully there is enough info in the sticky to get you going. If not, I highly recommend "The art of cidermaking" by Paul Correnty. Its out of print but you might be able to find it at your library. A lot of cider books are good, but they are mostly written by writers with an interest in cider. This one is written by an experienced small batch cider maker
 
For your cider kit, I'd recommend using a 6 gal better bottle instead of a brew pail as your primary. They are much easier for adding sugar or honey, keeping sealed, being able to see what is going on, etc. I'd also recommend skipping bottles and going right to kegs. You'll need to spend about 100 bucks for the CO2 tank and regulator and used kegs are about 20-25 bucks. Then you wont need bottles, the capper, filler, etc. which should knock 50 bucks off your kit price. Basically this kit from Northern Brewer, except that if you look around you can get most of it used for half the price. Craigslist usually has lots of homebrew equipment:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/starter-kits/ultimate-starter-kit.html

Hopefully there is enough info in the sticky to get you going. If not, I highly recommend "The art of cidermaking" by Paul Correnty. Its out of print but you might be able to find it at your library. A lot of cider books are good, but they are mostly written by writers with an interest in cider. This one is written by an experienced small batch cider maker



Will i need to invest in a refrigerator for the kegs? I have a spare fridge in my basement that i use solely for liquor storage but im not sure how many kegs (if any) i could even fit in it if i removed some racks.
 
I've got a beer fridge in my basement. Its fairly small, but still has room for two kegs plus a rack on the top for holding bottles. You dont need to keep it cold, but its nice. I've still got kegs from last season that were stored at room temp, so you should be able to store as long as you want in the fridge.
 
I see that my fellow Virginian has started on kegging. I just thought I'd interject some information on starting the brewing process. Granted I have been…imbibing tonight so forgive me if I miss something. After pressing your cider:

1. Clean your fermenting bucket, hydrometer, wine thief, and cylinder (because you’ll be drinking out of it). Do this with either a special cleaning solution, or a mild scentless soap. I use a cleaning solution from my local home brew store which reminds me of oxy-clean. It works well and it doesn’t leave an after taste.
2. Sanitize the equipment using Star San. I like it because it doesn’t require very much sanitizing solution, it doesn’t take very long to sanitize, I haven’t noticed any off odors or taste, and it can be stored and reused for later.
3. If you wish, you can boil water and rinse your tools off. This is a touchy subject with some, because you are supposed to rinse off the sanitizing solution, but many people have skipped this step because of the low concentration of cleaning solution.
4. Air dry your equipment in an area that is clean, without a fan or air conditioner blowing on it. I know this sounds funny, but I guarantee that I can find more dust and mold on your fan and air ducts than on the surface of your kitchen counter. You don’t have to be overkill, just be smart.
5. Store all of your tools in a place that is safe from contamination. If you are unsure that you will be able to keep them clean, just hold off on sanitizing them until step 13.
6. Pour your unfermented cider/juice into the clean fermenting bucket or carboy. I do 5 gallon batches but I brew about 5.5-6.0 gallons, leaving some space between the brew and the top of the bucket.
7. Crush 5 campden tablets and add them to the cider. I think it’s better if you add it slowly while pouring the cider into the fermenting bucket. You can also mix it with boiled water, but I don’t like adding extra ingredients where they are not needed.
8. At this time, I cover my bucket with the lid and use the air lock to seal the hole in the lid. While pressing down on the lid, there is always the chance that there will be a little bit of “suckback” where the negative pressure of the bucket sucks in liquid from the air lock. Instead of water, I use a neutral grain vodka (not potato) when filling up my air lock because if I do get suckback it will only add to the ABV and the neutral grain will not damage the flavor of the cider.
9. Let it sit for about 12 hours.
10. Add the pectic enzyme, and cover the fermenting bucket.
11. Let it sit for about 12 more hours.
12. Prepare your yeast starter if you have a dry yeast. If you have a liquid yeast, remove it from the fridge and let it sit until it is at room temperature. It is best to READ the PACKAGE for instructions! If you want to (and I recommend it) add your yeast to some yeast nutrients and yeast energizer. Use a clean and sanitized container for this! Make sure that you either cover your yeast starter if it is in a bowl, or seal it if using some sort of bottle! If you don’t see much yeast activity, don’t worry. Some yeast is just slow to start.
13. While your yeast is prepping, use a clean and sanitized wine thief to take some of the cider from the fermenting bucket and dump it into your cylinder. If there is any doubt that your wine thief is clean, re-clean and sanitize it!
14. Take a hydrometer reading. Make sure you spin the hydrometer to release bubbles, then look at the gradient lines measuring at the bottom of the curve in the liquid. If you can’t tell where the bottom is…just guess. Again, you’re making cider, and you won’t get an F in science class or anything. Take the temperature of the liquid in the cylinder, and correct your readings. Your hydrometer should come with a chart.
15. WRITE DOWN THE READING.
16. Open the fermenting container, and pitch your yeast into the bucket.
17. People have countless ways of aerating their yeast, and I can tell you that there really is no “wrong” way of doing it. Some people just give the fermenting bucked a really good shake. Some people using a mixing spoon, and other people use an aerating stone or fish aquarium pump. It is my opinion that the more you put into your cider, the higher chance you have of introducing bacteria. Using a large spoon is just fine. I use a cooking spoon that is cleaned and sanitized. It’s good to stir up the cider a bit, then slowly add some yeast, stir, add yeast, stir, etc. This way you get it mixed in really well and it introduces a lot of oxygen.
18. I know that some people don’t cover their fermenting vessel, some cover it but don’t air lock it…I seal the bucket completely. I seal the bucket, with the air lock. Pressing firmly around the edges a few times helps out, because most buckets come with an air-tight gasket that makes it hard for the bucket to close. Push down hard, you’re making a cider, not delivering a baby. Take your palm and lightly press down on the lid in the center to make sure that some air bubbles come through the air lock. Don’t do this too hard, just enough to see movement in your lock. This lets you know it’s working properly.
19. Be patient. You might not see activity in your air lock, but it can take a while. If there’s no activity after a couple of days, then worry. Don’t get out of bed in the middle of the night and sit in front of it…waiting for bubbles…
20. Come back to the forums and discuss what kind of cider you would like, so while it ferments you can decide if you want to stop the fermentation short, or let it ferment out to a dry cider. We’ll also talk about things like sweetening it or carbonating it. As mentioned above, you can also keg it. I don’t keg, so I can’t help you there. I feel like I’m missing something from my list so I’ll probably remember it later or one of the other forum members will call it ou
 
wow thanks for the huge reply.....this has helped a lot!

on an added note i just got back from the local orchard that presses its own cider. They informed me that they add nothing to the cider they sell. They do not even pasteurize or anything. The only negative is I will have to buy the cider by the half-gallon as they do not do custom fills.
 
I've got a beer fridge in my basement. Its fairly small, but still has room for two kegs plus a rack on the top for holding bottles. You dont need to keep it cold, but its nice. I've still got kegs from last season that were stored at room temp, so you should be able to store as long as you want in the fridge.


what is the approx dimensions of the kegs ? I want to go home tonight and findout if ill have enough room for a keg or two in the fridge. (crosses fingers)
 
wow triple posting ...... i spoke with a local brew store and they carry better bottles and the kegs. The kegs are used but reconditioned for $35 a pop. They also carry all the lines for the co2 regulator but do not carry the co2 tank or regulator.

Looks like i'll be making a stop by there on my way home.

Heres my "grocery" list....tell me if im missing anything:


Two 6 gal. Better Bottles
Cleaning Solution
Star San.
Two Soda Kegs
co2 hosing
campden tablets
Yeast
Funnel
Bottle Brush
Beer Thief
Hydrometer
Siphon
 
Looks good - you wont really need the kegging equipment for a few weeks so you could start with the rest of the stuff and see if you can find a better deal for the keg setup on craigslist
 
what is the approx dimensions of the kegs ? I want to go home tonight and findout if ill have enough room for a keg or two in the fridge. (crosses fingers)

The cornelius kegs(the soda kegs from when pop actually came in kegs and not boxes) we tend to use for homebrewing typically hold 5 gallons and are 25 inches tall by 8.5 inches wide. . . you'll need an inch clearance to get the disconnects on it.

And to the OP, if you look around the web you can typically find a whole package of what you'll need for about $200. I'm sure you could put it all together for cheaper but I remember when I put mine together it was more of a hassle getting all the bits and parts together and around than it was worth in the money I saved. I also ended up having to replace many of my o-rings and gaskets. . . a lot of websites will include an extra set free or have already put a new set on. Check of kegconnection.com or midwestsupplies.com or google cornelius keg. . . or whatever your search engine of preference is.
 
Well I bought almost everything. I decided against campden and they didn't have regulators or 5lb co2 tanks. I'm going to a local welding supply tomorrow to pick those up. All I need now is the pressed juice and to sanitize everything.
 
Make sure that both the regulator and tank are beverage grade.

One more thing that is is optional but you might want is a CO2 dispenser that you can use to blow air out of your carboys, and not have to worry about oxidation coming from the headspace. I use a keg charger with a pipe nipple like the one on p15 of the sticky. That works pretty good, although its not ideal - the trigger is really sensitive. You can also use a spare CO2 post pin for one of your kegs and attach it to the end of your CO2 regulator hose to make a little CO2 blower - *make sure the regulator is turned down to 1-2psi
 
Make sure that both the regulator and tank are beverage grade.

One more thing that is is optional but you might want is a CO2 dispenser that you can use to blow air out of your carboys, and not have to worry about oxidation coming from the headspace. I use a keg charger with a pipe nipple like the one on p15 of the sticky. That works pretty good, although its not ideal - the trigger is really sensitive. You can also use a spare CO2 post pin for one of your kegs and attach it to the end of your CO2 regulator hose to make a little CO2 blower - *make sure the regulator is turned down to 1-2psi

The show owner / brewmaster i spoke with yesterday actually lives in the same town as I do and recommended a welding supply shop nearby for the 5lb tank and reg.


I am curious however besides the dual regulator and 5lb co2 tank what hoses and fittings and attachments/connections will I need for connecting to my soda kegs?


by the way.....kevin and everyone else who has responsed in this sofar thread. THANK YOU!
 
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