Stone Chai Spiced Russian Imperial Stout Clone

Good morning!
So I've found a recipe which I'd like an opinion on. I did a search first and couldn't find anything pertaining to this, but if i have overlooked this please let me know.

The below seems like a pretty solid recipe for a RIS. However I'd like to make it a Chai Spiced RIS. From some articles I've read, suggestion is NOT to use tea but to just mull a bag of spices that is used to flavor the tea.

(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.096 FG = 1.020
IBU = 65 SRM = 63 ABV = 10.7%

Ingredients
16.5 lbs. (7.5 kg) 2-row pale malt
2 lbs. (0.91 kg) amber malt
1.25 lbs. (0.57 kg) roasted barley (500 °L)
1.25 lbs. (0.57 kg) black malt


20.8 AAU Warrior® hops (60 min.) (1.3 oz/37 g at 16% alpha acids)
White Labs WLP002 (English Ale) yeast (3 qt./3 L yeast starter)

Mash at 150 °F. Boil for 90 minutes.
Ferment at 66 °F.
3/4 cup corn sugar (for priming)

I found the below for homemade chai.

Was thinking about boiling the below in 2 cups of water and adding this to secondary for 7 days along with the spices in a muslin bag.

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/homemade-chai-201226

This recipe makes 6 cups. Since the chai tea is super spicy, maybe just double the ingredients?

2-inch piece fresh ginger, cut into thin rounds
2 cinnamon sticks
2 teaspoons black peppercorns
10 whole cloves
6 cardamom pods
1 Vanilla Bean

Any thoughts or suggestions?

I brewed a chai milk stout once and did use chai tea bags and it turned out great. I steeped the bags in vodka then added just the chai infused vodka to the secondary. I did this mostly because when I priced the ingredients for chai spice it was over my budget.

I used the recipe below and just added it to taste at packaging. Turned out fantastic! Try to find bulk spices at a health food store so you but just what you need and not a who container of everything. Cost me about $10 to make

Chai Spiced Tea Ingredients

1 vanilla bean, split and scraped
2 cinnamon sticks
2-inch piece of ginger, peeled and sliced
5 whole cloves
2 star anise
24 green cardamom pods, split
1 black cardamom pod, split
2 tsp. black peppercorns
1/2 whole nutmeg, roughly chopped
1/4 tsp. fennel seeds
Preparing Spices

Bring about 1 quart filtered water to a boil, then pour over spices and cover in a separate container.
Let steep for 30 minutes, then strain to remove spices. Cover tea and keep chilled until used.
I blended in about 2 cups (473 milliliters) of this liquid in the 5-gallon (19-liter) batch. But you want to do it slowly, mix it well, and taste it. Different people have different tastes, so you're looking for a nice balance without being overpowering with the spices.
Don't use tea—it has too much tannin.

Great thanks! Anyone have thoughts on the RIS recipee?

Hey, I realize this is about 4 years late but this is a beer I'm definitely interested in working on cloning. I have a clone recipe for Stone's RIS from a book I own, I'll share that in a minute.

I've also been working on a Chai spiced tea recipe off and on over the past couple years and settled on a decently successful blend, but haven't messed with it for awhile so can't remember exactly what it was. I'll start working on that again and update once I settle on something worth sharing. Updates to follow...

Here is the clone recipe from the book. I've never brewed it but this is where I'd start.

(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain) OG = 1.097 FG = 1.023 IBU = 65 SRM = 69 ABV = 10.6%

16.5 lb. (7.5 kg) 2-row pale malt
2 lb. (0.91 kg) amber malt
1.25 lb. (0.57 kg) roasted barley (500°L)
1.25 lb. (0.57 kg) black malt

19 AAU Warrior hops (90 mins.) (1.2 oz./34 g at 16% alpha acids)

White Labs WLP002 (English Ale) or Wyeast 1968 (London ESB Ale) yeast

Also this:
"If possible, make a smaller beer 2 to 4 weeks prior to brewing this beer and use the yeast from the small beer to pitch into this beer. Otherwise, make a 3 quart (3L) yeast starter several days prior to brew day. Mash the grains at 150°F (66°C) in 7 gallons (26.5 L) of water for 75 minutes. Mash out, vorlauf, and then sparge at 170°F (77°C) with enough water to collect 6.5 gallons (24.6 L) of wort. Boil for 90 minutes, adding the hops at the start of the boil. Pitch the yeast and ferment at 68°F (20°C) for 5 days, then increase the temperature to 72°F (22°C) and hold for 5 days. Transfer to a secondary fermentation vessel and age for 1 to 3 months at cellar temperatures. Bottle or keg as usual. This beer will age well."

Ok, I'm an idiot... Just realized the one I have is the same as yours.

I'll get to work on the chai spices! Might be a little while.

Alright, an update on my chai spice trials... I've just about dialed in the right quantities for a pretty good chai spice mix that I use to make chai tea.

4g whole cloves
10g cinnamon sticks
6g whole black peppercorn
2g Indian long pepper
2g green cardamom pods (weighed with pods, but only used the seeds in the mix)
0.75g whole nutmeg
17g fresh peeled ginger

Blend everything together (except for the ginger) in a spice grinder. Finely cut the fresh ginger and then mix it all together in a cup/storage container.

The recipe makes enough for around 6 10 oz cups of tea (it would probably be good for 12 oz). I put about 7g of the mix (2tsp), plus one black tea bag in the cup, fill with boiling water, and let it steep for 5-6 minutes. Results in a nice pleasing amount of heat from the ginger, pepper, and cinnamon. The cinnamon, nutmeg and cloves blend nicely to give it that familiar, sweet, earthy aroma and flavor that reminds me of dessert and winter. The cardamom ties it all together with its distinctive chai flavor.

I left off some ingredients that I found in other chai recipes online (fennel, star anise, allspice) partially based on my personal preferences but also because of Stone's description on their website.

I'm thinking of scaling this up for what would be required to basically make a 20L cup of chai tea (using RIS wort at flame out) and then halfing it just because it's probably way too much. Then add additional flavor in secondary using tinctures as needed to taste. Preliminary calculations seem to get me to reasonable amounts of the ingredients based on other recipes that use the same ingredients. I am a little concerned about flavor and aroma being lost during fermentation.

Ill continue to update as I make progress with this.

Alright, people... This is at the front of my brew queue. I'll probably brew this in the next week or two. Anyone else attempt it or anything similar?

As usual, I'll give updates along the way.

Brewing this tomorrow, using the following recipe:

78.6% Maris otter
9.5% amber malt
5.9% black patent
5.9% roasted barley

I'm shooting for ~9%ABV so scaling it back a little bit.

90 minute mash @65C

90 minute boil

90 minute nugget addition to 65 IBU (no warrior on hand)

Chai spice mix added at flame out:
20g cinnamon
20g cloves
10g green cardamon pods (pods removed, only added seeds)
10g black peppercorns
5g Indian long pepper
85g fresh ginger
5g nutmeg
5 black tea bags (liptons single serve size)

S-04 yeast
Edit: mixed with US-05 because I only had one pack of each left.

Also made a tincture using the same spices (scaled down by factor of five) and covered with vodka. Will add just prior to kegging, to taste, if necessary.

Will provide updates throughout the process.

After nearly two weeks in primary, I opened for tasting and gravity test. The S-04/US-05 combo didn't attenuate quite as much as US-05 alone probably would have so I'm looking at an 8.5% ABV version, which I'm OK with.

Very subtle Chai spiced flavor from the boil additions, so I added all of my tincture (spices and alcohol). I'll let it sit for a couple more days for attenuation/floculation before kegging. I'll probably let it sit in keg for a few weeks before carbing up and serving.

Updates to follow.

I kegged this a few days ago after 2 days of contact with "dry hop" spice/tincture addition. Initial tastings are decent, considering the beer is only a couple weeks old. Cardamom is very prominent and probably a bit too strong, but not overwhelming. The other chai spices are present but not quite as strong as I would have liked. Next time I'll adjust the ingredients accordingly. The aroma is just about there as well. As far as whether or not my version was a clone... Definitely not yet, but it's not too far off. The stout itself is probably close and would have definitely been closer if I had made it bigger (like the original).

More updates to follow.

At almost four weeks old, the cardamom astringency has faded significantly and the beer no longer tastes green. I'll definitely up the cinnamon next time. Probably increase the black pepper and nutmeg a bit too. This beer would definitely benefit from some aging/patience but it won't last long due to the pandemic.

As predicted, I drank nearly all of this before it hit its stride. Today, I opened one of the bottles I put back and it is actually tasting quite nice now (3 1/2 months old).

The flavors have melded together nicely. Still a bit heavy on the cardamom, but not by much. The 65 IBUs combined with the cardamom is probably a touch too bitter. It has an appropriate amount of spicy bite from the cinnamon and pepper. You feel it more in the throat than on the tongue. Clove seems about right to me, personally. Ginger and nutmeg are hard to pick out, but I think they contribute to the Chai smell and taste. The beer has oxidized in the bottle a bit too, which I think works well with this one.

Overall, I'm much happier with this after 3.5 months. It probably would have been perfect during the two to three month mark. Next time, I'll decrease the cardamom by a third, decrease the hop bitterness to 60 IBUs, increase the cinnamon in the tincture, and make the beer bigger (like the original).