Candi Syrup = Invert Sugar?
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They are not the same.
Invert sugar is a mixture of gluclose and fructose, mady by mixing citric acid and sucrose.
Candi syrup is just a reduced mixture of sugar and water
I dont see why you could not substitute them
Depending on your syrup and the way it was made, you'll get different results. Lyle's is partially inverted, so it won't ferment fully and leave its distinctive toffe flavour. I wouldn't fret the possible effect on OG though, especially not in a wee heavy, where overshooting/undershooting by a few points isn't the end of the world, far from it.
You could simply invert your own sugar too. I do it all the time to good results. It doesn't taste like Lyle's, but it's not like the commercial candi syrups either: it has more of a toasty marshmallow and honey thing going on.
Invert recipe:
1) Take 500g cane sugar, cover with water. Get to boil. Add 1/4 teaspoon cream of tartar.
2) Carefully get the temp between 240-250F. Cook for 20 minutes at this temperature. The syrup will invert fully.
3) If you want more flavour/colour, let the syrup's temperature rise bove 250F. 325F will get you a nice amber colour. If you do go above 250F, you need to add some water to cool the syrup and get it back to 240F for 15 minutes, so it dissolves and keeps in a syrup form.
You could simply invert your own sugar too. I do it all the time to good results. It doesn't taste like Lyle's, but it's not like the commercial candi syrups either: it has more of a toasty marshmallow and honey thing going on.
Invert recipe:
1) Take 500g cane sugar, cover with water. Get to boil. Add 1/4 teaspoon cream of tartar.
2) Carefully get the temp between 240-250F. Cook for 20 minutes at this temperature. The syrup will invert fully.
3) If you want more flavour/colour, let the syrup's temperature rise bove 250F. 325F will get you a nice amber colour. If you do go above 250F, you need to add some water to cool the syrup and get it back to 240F for 15 minutes, so it dissolves and keeps in a syrup form.
Hey thanks for explaining that invert sugar doesn't ferment fully and leaves more of a taste in the beer.
Actually, I had a problem with that Caramel Amber ale (it's a popular one in the recipies section) where by the time the beer was properly aged, the caramel flavor that I first tasted at week 1 of fermentation (I always check at week 1 to make sure everything is going as it should) pretty much dissapeared. The recipe called for Amber Candi Sugar which I made. Maybe next time, I could try making Amber invert sugar?
Also do you have any tips for maintaining that temp on the stovetop? I can imagine it'd be pretty easy to overshoot.
I believe by the comment "lyle's is only partially inverted so it won't fully convert" the point was that it would fully ferment if it was fully inverted. The inverting breaks the sucrose down into gluclose & fructose wich are more readily consumed. I do this with 1lb sugar, 1/4-1/2 tsp lemon juice and 1.5 cup water. simmer for 20 minutes. 1 pound sugar yields you 46 gravity poionts/gallon.
Invert sugar will ferment fully and its flavour contribution will be small, unless you have some caramelization going on. I use it mainly for the colour and to dry my beers: it adds some toasty notes, roasted marhsmallows and honey, with maybe some dark fruit.
You do need a good and accurate candy thermometer, but if you are careful and watch the steam production, it's easy to make. You'll reach a point where the boil produces less and less steam, this let's you know you are going above 212F (the boiling point of water) and have eliminated all excess water. This is where you put the heat on low-medium and check the temps every minute. If you are gaining more than a few degrees a minute, you'll overshoot. You want to slowly ramp up to 240F. It'll make it easier to get a stable and accurate temperature for the inversion phase. You can call it done after 20 minutes @ 240F if all you want is to boost the gravity.
Note that if you take it to 325F +, the sugar can taste burnt. A few weeks in a mason jar will usually get rid of that character.
bierhaus15
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To avoid confusion, inverted sugar and candi sugar/syrup are different than brewers invert (syrup). The former are basically just processed sugar that has an acid added to it and boiled until a specific color is reached. Llyes is essentially made from this same process - it is partially inverted - it will be almost completely ferementable and add some flavor. Candi sugar can add a lot of character to a beer, depending on how dark you let it go.
Brewers invert syrup is different in that the sugar (usually an processed one like demerara) is dissolved in an acid solution and held at a specific temperature for a set amount of time until the sugar syrup takes on a particular flavor and/or color. It is the unrefined nature of the sugar that provides much of the character of the sugar, and it does add a lot of character to the finished beer. It is fully inverted. Some recipes require the sugar solution to reduce at 140F for 4-5 hours while more common ones have a maximum temperature of 250 for 1-3 hours.
Brewers invert syrup is different in that the sugar (usually an processed one like demerara) is dissolved in an acid solution and held at a specific temperature for a set amount of time until the sugar syrup takes on a particular flavor and/or color. It is the unrefined nature of the sugar that provides much of the character of the sugar, and it does add a lot of character to the finished beer. It is fully inverted. Some recipes require the sugar solution to reduce at 140F for 4-5 hours while more common ones have a maximum temperature of 250 for 1-3 hours.
Thank you! This is point that's hard to get across.
What is the difference between a home made caramel syrup and candi syrup? Is it a difference in ingredients or process? or both? I ask because there has to be a way to make it at home unless the ingredients required are just not available here.
ReverseApacheMaster
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Sugar does not have to be inverted to ferment. It is harder for yeast to ferment sucrose (non-inverted sugar) because they have to break it down through enzymatic activity. But the same is true of maltose, but they break down maltose more easily than sucrose. Clear candi rocks/syrup is exactly the same as inverted sugar (but in a suspending syrup or large crystal form) and tastes no different than regular old table sugar.
Products like Lyle's (or what is made at home) is made by either caramelizing or invoking maillard reactions in boiling sugar. The inversion that occurs due to acid or boiling is not necessary or predictive of fermentation. The reason they do not fully ferment is because when sugar is caramelized or undergoes maillard reactions that part of the sugar does not ferment.
The darker syrups we make at home are either caramelized or undergo maillard reactions. The darker syrups you buy, like D or D2, are made from an unrefined sugar product. It's my suspicion that they are using something akin to beet molasses and creating a small amount of maillard reactions. It is a distinctly different product. Our homemade syrups can emulate most of the flavors but because they are created by caramelization and/or maillard reactions they are largely unfermentable. Syrups like D2 are almost completely fermentable. They are also substantially maltose and fructose, which leads me to believe there might some kind of enzymatic breakdown of beat starches to produce maltose. Since we don't know what exactly they use, or the process, we can't reproduce it because it hasn't been reverse engineered correctly. In time, I'm sure somebody will figure it out.
Products like Lyle's (or what is made at home) is made by either caramelizing or invoking maillard reactions in boiling sugar. The inversion that occurs due to acid or boiling is not necessary or predictive of fermentation. The reason they do not fully ferment is because when sugar is caramelized or undergoes maillard reactions that part of the sugar does not ferment.
The darker syrups we make at home are either caramelized or undergo maillard reactions. The darker syrups you buy, like D or D2, are made from an unrefined sugar product. It's my suspicion that they are using something akin to beet molasses and creating a small amount of maillard reactions. It is a distinctly different product. Our homemade syrups can emulate most of the flavors but because they are created by caramelization and/or maillard reactions they are largely unfermentable. Syrups like D2 are almost completely fermentable. They are also substantially maltose and fructose, which leads me to believe there might some kind of enzymatic breakdown of beat starches to produce maltose. Since we don't know what exactly they use, or the process, we can't reproduce it because it hasn't been reverse engineered correctly. In time, I'm sure somebody will figure it out.
Rock candi is not inverted.
Check this out to see how it's made....
http://www.candisyrup.com/faq.html
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