Stainless braid false bottom

For many years I have used a slotted copper false bottom on my MLT. It really has been fine, and made some wonderful beers, but I am always in search of a new project. So I decided to build a deluxe, stainless braid false bottom (SFB). I blame this all on Dude because he sent me some wonderful brews. I first had his Pliny the Bastard and thought "why not make a new SFB?" Then I drank his Red Eye Rye and thought, "Why not make it a double?"

So I got busy with my saw, torch, copper and stainless and came up with this:



As you can see, it is a double looped SFB. In the process I came up with an idea that I utilized. I don't know if others have thought of this or not, but WTH, I did. The stainless braid is very flexible and tends to want to stretch out. So I ran a length of 18 gauge copper wire through the lenght of braid and secured it on each end with my clamps, creating a limit or brake to the expansion. Clever idea, if I don't say so myself.

Installed in my MLT the SFB looks like this:



So that is my gift to the Home Brew Gawds this day. I did not brew the 777 and will use that brew next week as a test of my new SFB. But I thought some of you might like the idea and appreciate the effort. But don't thank me, thank Dude. This project was 100% Dude's brew powered. :rockin:

That looks awesome BP. I love mine, but it has its issues. I think it might be time for a refub. based on your design.

Thanks!

No problem. My best friend is a Lowes employee and the more projects i can send his way the happier his wife will be.

That looks great, I don't know how much flow you are going to get from the center loop due to the path of least resistance thing but it just might work. You have plenty of surface area with the outer loop anyways so it will work fine.

I went from a FB to a copper manifold and then switched to the braid like you did. Not much difference between the copper and braid except the braid stays clean and doesn't turn green.

I just went with one long hose and double looped it. It's about 2 years old now and about time for a new one...

It looks great! Can ya make me one?

I ran across one similar where the guy put a stainless spring inside the braid--that held up the integrity of the braid. I imagine in that huge kettle of yours 50 lbs. of grain on top of it might crush the braid.

I need to get on this. I like the copper H, that will defintely keep it from floating around, I'd guess.

Dude said:

I ran across one similar where the guy put a stainless spring inside the braid--that held up the integrity of the braid.

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Now that is an idea. Again, I can't say if it is worth the effort or not, but hey, it is another HB project. Waht more can I ask?

I am presumining that the brais=ded stainless will act a bit like a corrigated pipe and hold its form due to the relatively equal pressure of the grain all around it. Am I off base (on this)?

do you fly or batch sparge?

While what you made is beautiful and original, unless you fly sparge, I just don't see it working much better than 2" or 12" of ss straight braid, as long as sugary water comes out the bulkead valve...what is the difference?

I have put 75lbs of grain on top of mine without any problems. If you bring your mash paddle all the way to the bottom there is a chance of picking it up but I haven't had that problem.

If you are fly sparging it is best to loop it, a single loop works just as well as a double loop I have found out.

If you are batch sparging then a straight piece with the end crimped works fine.

FWIW, John Palmer's book claims 1" SST braid won't collapse under the weight of grains, but I've yet to verify it empirically. I did have to go up to 1/2" fittings on the tee, however

ColoradoXJ13 said:

do you fly or batch sparge?

While what you made is beautiful and original, unless you fly sparge, I just don't see it working much better than 2" or 12" of ss straight braid, as long as sugary water comes out the bulkead valve...what is the difference?

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Well, I batch and I fly and if it isn't beautiful, then it is ugly and I would rather have fun making things that are pleasing to the eye and function nicely, as opposed to just do the job and look like so much hardware. No offense to those who just like to get the job done, but I take a different path. It is part of the hobby for me.

Brewpastor said:

Well, I batch and I fly and if it isn't beautiful, then it is ugly and I would rather have fun making things that are pleasing to the eye and function nicely, as opposed to just do the job and look like so much hardware. No offense to those who just like to get the job done, but I take a different path. It is part of the hobby for me.

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Sorry, that sounds a bit pissy and I did not mean it that way. I meant, thank you, I wanted to make it have form and function. I appreciate the input and the theory behind these wonderful ss braids and just thought I would play with it. I had the parts so why not?

ColoradoXJ13 said:

do you fly or batch sparge?

While what you made is beautiful and original, unless you fly sparge, I just don't see it working much better than 2" or 12" of ss straight braid, as long as sugary water comes out the bulkead valve...what is the difference?

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Why would it work any different with batch sparging?

OK bring on the data. I built this thing because I have never found any head to head comparison of false bottom designs, I post some pictures and tell what I have been doing. A few folks say it is over-kill. Palmer has been referenced but no real comparison has been offered. So lets get down to the brass tacks. What works and what does not?

I built this because I wanted to compare the efficiency of SFB as opposed to the slotted copper tubing variety. I built it so I can confiqure it in numerous ways and see what happens. When I have results I will post them. If you have real life data, please post it for the rest of us.

Brewpastor said:

OK bring on the data. I built this thing because I have never found any head to head comparison of false bottom designs, I post some pictures and tell what I have been doing. A few folks say it is over-kill. Palmer has been referenced but no real comparison has been offered. So lets get down to the brass tacks. What works and what does not?

I built this because I wanted to compare the efficiency of SFB as opposed to the slotted copper tubing variety. I built it so I can confiqure it in numerous ways and see what happens. When I have results I will post them. If you have real life data, please post it for the rest of us.

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Do you need a nap?

I need to go through my brew sheets and get numbers. As I said yesterday, my efficiency rocks the hizzle with a braid.

Dude said:

Do you need a nap?

I need to go through my brew sheets and get numbers. As I said yesterday, my efficiency rocks the hizzle with a braid.

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I don't mean to nag. I would simply love real data. I mean we have hundreds of brewers around here and should be able to get some rocking information about process and equipment. But mostly we get little comments that seem more like opinion then fact.

I think we need to kick things up a notch and get some testing going. But that probably means a poll, and a long post to get everybody's idea before we move ahead and so 3 years from now somebody will pull the idea up and off we go again...

OK, I am going to start an efficiency thread. See you in another post.

PS- Dude, you are right, that St. George's Imperial Stout is unbelievable. Talk about chocolate malt and roaste tones. I need to make that beer!

Brewpastor said:

PS- Dude, you are right, that St. George's Imperial Stout is unbelievable. Talk about chocolate malt and roaste tones. I need to make that beer!

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I told ya. It is a sipper, and therefore I cannot put it into my all-time favorite quaffing top five, but it is quite possibly the single best commercial beer I've ever had as far as "done right, exactly as it should be".

Dude said:

I told ya. It is a sipper, and therefore I cannot put it into my all-time favorite quaffing top five, but it is quite possibly the single best commercial beer I've ever had as far as "done right, exactly as it should be".

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It is truely amazing. That malt character is so fresh and round. What an amazing brew.

Brewpastor said:

It is truely amazing. That malt character is so fresh and round. What an amazing brew.

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Dammit, now I have to drink one.

Well, I finished mine for my 10 gallon cooler last night. I'll test it tomorrow and report the results in the efficiency thread.

BTW...I ordered some springs from Mcmaster-Carr...I'll add those to the inside of the braids after they arrrive. I will have to do one brew without them though.

Brewpastor said:

OK bring on the data. I built this thing because I have never found any head to head comparison of false bottom designs, I post some pictures and tell what I have been doing. A few folks say it is over-kill. Palmer has been referenced but no real comparison has been offered. So lets get down to the brass tacks. What works and what does not?

I built this because I wanted to compare the efficiency of SFB as opposed to the slotted copper tubing variety. I built it so I can confiqure it in numerous ways and see what happens. When I have results I will post them. If you have real life data, please post it for the rest of us.

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Im going to bet your efficiency won't change much do to the change of manifolds. Your design, even though it is slightly overkill will work great due to the large surface area.

I went from copper to SS braid and saw no difference in efficiency I always had 80%+ with both. Except for my belgian strong I brewed Saturday, something went horribly wrong with efficiency but Im thinking I left something out somewhere....

Monster Mash said:

Im going to bet your efficiency won't change much do to the change of manifolds. Your design, even though it is slightly overkill will work great due to the large surface area.

I went from copper to SS braid and saw no difference in efficiency I always had 80%+ with both. Except for my belgian strong I brewed Saturday, something went horribly wrong with efficiency but Im thinking I left something out somewhere....

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Who are you referring to?

I have a question about this. Why is it better to batch sparge with a stainless braid than to fly sparge? Vice versa if you are using a copper manifold.

CollinsBrew said:

I have a question about this. Why is it better to batch sparge with a stainless braid than to fly sparge? Vice versa if you are using a copper manifold.

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I am wondering the same thing. ColoradoXJ hasn't been back in this thread to explain that.

I think the idea is that with a traditional braid set-up, you are only drawing wort from the center of the mash tun (if you just have a single braid running down the center of your tun). This would be prone to channeling if fly sparging and result in a poor sparge and efficiency. When batch sparging it shouldn't matter since all your sugars are in solution after you stir your batch. Also, whith the design you guys have, you are drawing from a larger aread and surface area, so channeling might not be an issue. I've never fly sparged, so I can't really comment.

ColoradoXJ13 said:

do you fly or batch sparge?

While what you made is beautiful and original, unless you fly sparge, I just don't see it working much better than 2" or 12" of ss straight braid, as long as sugary water comes out the bulkead valve...what is the difference?

Click to expand...

Basic fluid michanics tells us that the shorter the distance between pipes the better the flow vector and thus better extraction. So BP's Manafold will extract more of the sugars from the mash during the sparge because the liquid will flow better at the edges.

clayof2day said:

I think the idea is that with a traditional braid set-up, you are only drawing wort from the center of the mash tun (if you just have a single braid running down the center of your tun). This would be prone to channeling if fly sparging and result in a poor sparge and efficiency. When batch sparging it shouldn't matter since all your sugars are in solution after you stir your batch. Also, whith the design you guys have, you are drawing from a larger aread and surface area, so channeling might not be an issue. I've never fly sparged, so I can't really comment.

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Back, and I agree with what I see above, not that I have any hard data....

My intuition though it that if you are batch sparging (i.e., drain your mash out, add a few gallons of hot water, stir, wait 10 minutes) you have a lot of sugary water, and no matter whether it comes out of a single 12" braid, or your piece of artfully designed plumbing, it is still sugar water. Other thing to keep in mind is that water will flow in and out of SS braid, and I am willing to bet that most of the runnings that come out of the spigot, are coming from the closet place where the braid can pick up runnings.

I am trying to think of an experiment for this...I am thinking that if I put an inch or so of water in my MLT, add a couple drops of red food coloring right near the ball valve, and a couple drops at the opposite end, I am willing to bet that all of the red drains before blue starts coming out...although that really won't work...nevermind.

Who cares really though, for me, simple is easiest, and I hit about 75% efficiency on my second AG using my MLT...and my braid is already beat to crap from stirring. I'd rather have to replace a 12" ss braid every few brews then 4 of them.

Mutine Bullfrog said:

Basic fluid michanics tells us that the shorter the distance between pipes the better the flow vector and thus better extraction. So BP's Manafold will extract more of the sugars from the mash during the sparge because the liquid will flow better at the edges.

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But these aren't pipes, they are just rigid filters, I don't think liquid flows through them as if they were pipes.

I am going to talk to my mech. engineer roomate tonight to ask him about this....I am out of my range of education.

I kind of get the feeling that with batch sparging, you could basically have an outled inside the MLT with a screen filter, and you would get the same effect. The reason SS braids are used is they work well as filters, but you are just trying to get as much dissolved sugar in water out as possible, tilting the MLT towards the outlet would work just as well, but the filter, b/c of smaller area, would clog more easily...

HEY BP!!!!

Why not rotate the Inner Braid 180 degrees? In other words, make the fitting closest to the edge of the MLT into a X fitting rather than a T. Then use the fourth hole to connect your inner braid, thereby getting more efficiency from the inner braid by having a more direct path out of the MLT.

Toot said:

HEY BP!!!!

Why not rotate the Inner Braid 180 degrees? In other words, make the fitting closest to the edge of the MLT into a X fitting rather than a T. Then use the fourth hole to connect your inner braid, thereby getting more efficiency from the inner braid by having a more direct path out of the MLT.

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Where do you get a copper X fitting?

The stainless braid acts as "hard piping" due to the liquid following the path of least resistance. Whatever liquid that is inside the braid will flow out because the grain that is pressed against the outside causes resistance. It works the same with slotted copper tubing.

Monster Mash said:

Where do you get a copper X fitting?

The stainless braid acts as "hard piping" due to the liquid following the path of least resistance. Whatever liquid that is inside the braid will flow out because the grain that is pressed against the outside causes resistance. It works the same with slotted copper tubing.

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But even with slotted copper tubing, it is advantageous to have the shortest possible route out of the brewkettle.

An X fitting is just a 4-way fitting. The T is 3 and the X is 4.... just rotated 45 degrees. As for where you get one, if you can't find one, then you can make one from two T fittings stuck together.

OK, here is a re-build idea that would create one long loop, which is my goal:

Brewpastor said:

OK, here is a re-build idea that would create one long loop, which is my goal:

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How is that going to connect to the bulkhead?

I think a circular braid is all you need, honestly.

BTW...I bought some springs form McMaster-Carr and they arrived yesterday. They came in a 5 pack and I think I only need 3 (to fix up both of my mash tuns).

You want the other 2? I sell them to you cheap...as in free.

BP, do you really need THAT much braid? I know you do huge batches, but I've never been anywhere close to a stuck sparge with much, much shorter lengths. Or are you using this to fly sparge?

Dude said:

How is that going to connect to the bulkhead?

I think a circular braid is all you need, honestly.

BTW...I bought some springs form McMaster-Carr and they arrived yesterday. They came in a 5 pack and I think I only need 3 (to fix up both of my mash tuns).

You want the other 2? I sell them to you cheap...as in free.

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That would be cool (the springs that is). Send them out, pay the postage and we will call ourselves even.

I didn't include the additional T. this would replace the copper mess I have in the current set-up. But sounds like I would be wasting copper to move ahead and be better off just going with the loop.

Brewpastor said:

That would be cool (the springs that is). Send them out, pay the postage and we will call ourselves even.

I didn't include the additional T. this would replace the copper mess I have in the current set-up. But sounds like I would be wasting copper to move ahead and be better off just going with the loop.

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OK.

I know you like tinkering with stuff on your own...but I'm going to scan a few pics and an article from Palmer's new book. It has a pretty decent write-up of how to do a good connection with the braid to the bulkhead fitting using a brass "T" compression fitting. If you want to go that route. I hate brass but it is what I did.

THis is the idea I had , havn't made it yet. Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to "draw" it better.