Temp control without fridge

I'm planning to brew a hefeweizen this weekend, and am a little concerned from the forecast that fermentation might be running a little too warm for the beer. I'm in Australia so we're oming out of the summer now and max temps after the brew could be up to 86f, meaning up to 75ish inside my fermenting space.

I'm using a WY3068, and would like to get the temp down to 65ish for 3 days or so. Overnight temps will be down to 60 but it's really the daytime temps that worry me.

I have a big 100 litre (25 gallon?) rectangular bin which I plan to fill with water and place the fermenter in to stabilize temps. Any advice on how much water I should fill to and if I need to use some frozen pet bottles. Also, is there any chance that unsanitary water could leak through the submersed spigot and infect the brew?

I often use the "swamp cooler" to maintain ferm temps; large plastic "bucket" filled to about three quarters up my carboy will cold water and then an old T-shirt draped over the rest of the carboy and into the water with a fan(sometimes) and frozen water bottles swapped out to keep at the right temps. not sure how it would work with a bottling bucket(sounds like that is what you are using, w the spigot). Have you ever had the bucket leak from that area? I might be concerned about the water seeping in that area. Maybe invest in a carboy or plastic better bottle for primary and then you wouldn't have to worry..

Yeah I think we have different equipment here in oz. I usually bottle straight out of the primary, which is a 30 litre with tap. Doesn't seem to leak but I can't be certain I guess. I could easily put some plastic wrap around and seal with some putty. I'll cover the opening of the tap with putty as well.

Yeah i have a similar fermenter setup. They dont generally leak, but if you keep the water level a bit below the beer level then it wont leak in due to the magic of physics.

Hadn't thought of that, thanks for the advice.

sockmerchant said:

Yeah i have a similar fermenter setup. They dont generally leak, but if you keep the water level a bit below the beer level then it wont leak in due to the magic of physics.

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I disagree with this. Although physics would keep the bulk of the water from forcing its way into the fermenter, if there was any place where the water from the swamp cooler could touch the wort you could get transmission of contaminants.

Well the tap is not open, I still plan to engineer a submerged airspace around the spigot. Undoubtedly direct contact from the wort and water would allow dissolution into the wort and direct transfer of lighter than wort particles and cells. Given that I don't have access to a tapless carboy, what do you think of a puttied tap opening, 2 freezer bags on double inner putty seals secured with twine? Dodgy I know, but we are in the DIY business after all.

I've also considered weighing the bags down within the airspace to draw any seepage away from the tap.

I would try to find some heavy duty trash bags. Double bag your fermenter, set it in the tub, then fill the tub. Should keep the water out without having to put putty in you spigot.

sagnew440 said:

I would try to find some heavy duty trash bags. Double bag your fermenter, set it in the tub, then fill the tub. Should keep the water out without having to put putty in you spigot.

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+1. This seems like a much better idea.

Dig a deep cellar in your yard.

I know it's impractical, but I want to do it, so let me live vicariously through others.

Oh and after you do that, dig tunnels and make a beer catacombs.

pabloj13 said:

I disagree with this. Although physics would keep the bulk of the water from forcing its way into the fermenter, if there was any place where the water from the swamp cooler could touch the wort you could get transmission of contaminants.

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I would consider this scenario highly unlikely. Even if some did (and you would most likely have to notice a dripping tap for this to be likely), contamination would be in such small quantities that it shouldn't make a discernible difference. After all, there is a 99% chance your wort is already contaminated to some degree (do a forced wort test). While i practice good sanitation, I don't get too anal about the really minor stuff.

I have done more than 50 brews in a fermeter like that in a swamp cooler and no one has ever picked out any contamination.

however, if the OP feels like going through the extra effort, good on him i suppose Cant do any damage

sockmerchant said:

I would consider this scenario highly unlikely. Even if some did (and you would most likely have to notice a dripping tap for this to be likely), contamination would be in such small quantities that it shouldn't make a discernible difference. After all, there is a 99% chance your wort is already contaminated to some degree (do a forced wort test). While i practice good sanitation, I don't get too anal about the really minor stuff.

I have done more than 50 brews in a fermeter like that in a swamp cooler and no one has ever picked out any contamination.

however, if the OP feels like going through the extra effort, good on him i suppose Cant do any damage

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Hey, if there's a route, even a small one, the fluid with the higher density will 'flow down hill'.... and we all know the hydrometer tells us our potion has a gravity higher than water! Not saying you couldn't end up with contamination just throwing in my thought on the physics.

bradpoff said:

Hey, if there's a route, even a small one, the fluid with the higher density will 'flow down hill'.... and we all know the hydrometer tells us our potion has a gravity higher than water! Not saying you couldn't end up with contamination just throwing in my thought on the physics.

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Yeah my thoughts exactly. And when the water level is below the beer there should be sufficient head at the tap to make any flow into the beer incredibly unlikely.

i reckon that any contamination that might occur (once again i believe this to be very unlikely) would be very minor. much more yeast...etc etc

I've done a couple of forced wort tests recently after reading the Yeast book. The first one lasted 8 days the second 6. Generally I consider that pretty decent. The biggest thing i learned (perhaps i knew on some level, but i never really thought about it) was that my wort was contaminated. my sanitation practices just reduces the amount of infection to as low a level as possible to give the yeast a chance to blitzkrieg the rest.

sockmerchant said:

Yeah my thoughts exactly. And when the water level is below the beer there should be sufficient head at the tap to make any flow into the beer incredibly unlikely.

i reckon that any contamination that might occur (once again i believe this to be very unlikely) would be very minor. much more yeast...etc etc

I've done a couple of forced wort tests recently after reading the Yeast book. The first one lasted 8 days the second 6. Generally I consider that pretty decent. The biggest thing i learned (perhaps i knew on some level, but i never really thought about it) was that my wort was contaminated. my sanitation practices just reduces the amount of infection to as low a level as possible to give the yeast a chance to blitzkrieg the rest.

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Again, I don't disagree with you guys on the likelihood of infection. Anything getting in would be very minor. However, you are confusing bulk liquid flow (which would certainly flow from the beer into the swamp cooler if the beer level was higher) with ability of bacteria or other contaminants to get into the beer. If the two sources are physically connected (which they would be assuming a small leak) then the bacteria would be able to enter regardless of bulk fluid flow. Probably not likely to cause an infection, but not impossible.

I just used an 18 gallon tote (just a plastic container) filled with water to about 6" below the beer line on my ferm bucket. Froze about 6 small water containers, and rotated them in about 1-2 times a day. With a towel over the bucket, I've managed to maintain a temp around 64 degrees, though my ambient hasn't been nearly as high as yours will be. I imagine with a fan and some larger water bottles, I could keep the same temps at a higher ambient.

Just a tip: toss a little bleach in the water that your ferm vessel sits in...it can get nasty after a few days!

UPDATE
Have had great success keeping the temp down, looks to be 61 or so. I put two half gallon ice bottles in this morning and the 100litre bin is very resistant to temperature fluctuation due to the sheer volume of water. Forecast is for 85 today so pretty happy with that.

I doubled bagged the fermenter but there seems to be some leakage so I'm glad I wrapped the spigot as well.

The smell is awesome but not overly estery or so I think it's mission accomplished.

The fermentation is noticeably slower though, how long do I need to protect the temperature for? My primaries have been finishing in three or four days due to temps of 70 to 75, but I guess this will take a little longer. Is it ok to let it up to 70 or so once the action dies down? The planned time in primary is two weeks.

Yeah definitely. I tend to only ice it for the first two days or until i get about 80% of the way to my target FG. I then leave it in the water but let it warm up. The volume of water means that temp changes will happen very slowly. When I get to my target FG I tend to take it out of the water and leave it at ambient to condition for another week or two.

Though being in NZ, our temps are a bit lower. At the moment it maxes out at about 22C. I would probably just leave it in the water till you bottle/keg. I do mine in our supertub, so i take it out to appease the wife