Timid Brewer avoid this post. Advice on experiments needed.

SSBrew - 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
madewithchicken

madewithchicken

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
406
Reaction score
4
I have to start out by saying that I do drink real beer. I am a big hop head and also have lately (since the hop shortage) started to enjoy a nice stout. The following questions are not about brewing a wonderful flavorful home brew. This is about fermenting everything in the house that is not glued to the floor with the dried beer from the last party.

I have been known to throw a party every so often. These people that come to my parties to get drunk and care very little for taste. Couple that with my need to experiment and we have alcohol at our parties that is closely a kin to prison hooch.

Mostly this post is to ask about fermenting bread. Can it be done? I know that the bread at one point was fermentable because using yeast is how bread is made. But does the cooking of the bread ruin the complex sugars?

If bread still contains something useful to ferment, how do i extract it? I guess I want to know boil times and temps. Do I treat it like a grain in an AG brew. Or do I just boil it to make sure it is clean and leave it in the fermentor.

Bread is a good one for me because it is free from my work. We throw out a good bit of bread and bagels every week. Plus I am sure I can dumpster whole loafs from local bakeries. I know this might sound odd to someone who does not hang out with a bunch of hippies, but a Dumpstered Ale (if you can call something like this ale) would be a plus.

My experiments have not all been bad ideas. But the ones that turn out to be good ideas always turn out to have been done by someone else first. Fermenting frozen juice concentrates, (grape, white grape, apple-cherry, and apple are some examples) is a good example of someone beating me to it. (This works well for those who do not know. 5 gallons of cider for about $15.)

Some other experiments I have considered:
-Pretzels, chips, and crackers
-Canned corn (I know corn can be fermented but I doubt canned corn can.)
-Darjeeling Tea (I have tried this and it adds a dry flavor, of course i did not expect it to ferment)
-Potatoes (canned or otherwise)
-Jellies and jams (I have tried but i need to explore it more.)
-Chicken Beer (Charlie Papazian wrote about this in Joy Of Home Brewing)

Please if you post a "You can't do that man, you might kill someone," or something similar, please explain why. Also I would not mind if other people shared their really cheap brews.
 
Look up "Kvass" it's made with bread.

- pretzels and crackers: Maybe but you need enzymes to break down any available starches first.

- Chips: Don't think so. Too much oil. Better to just use potatoes, a good base grain, and lots of rice hulls.

- Canned corn: Why not? It is corn. Maybe even popcorn (non buttered) it's basically like puffed wheat.

I just don;t even wanna go there on the others except to say consider some Pectinase enzyme for the jams and jellies.
 
I make a lot of fermented/inoculated items (dry cured salami, fermented tomatoes, saurkraut, cheese, etc). Fermenting raw poultry is not on my to-do list. There is significant risk to your health because of bacterial and microbial contamination potential.
 
I'm certain you can ferment jams and jellies. I don't know how, but I know you can.

I bought a HUGE can of cranberry sauce at the dollar store recently. It's the "whole berry" kind. There is HFCS in it, but no sorbate. I'm planning on fermenting that when I have a one gallon jug free.
 
YooperBrew said:
I'm certain you can ferment jams and jellies. I don't know how, but I know you can.

I bought a HUGE can of cranberry sauce at the dollar store recently. It's the "whole berry" kind. There is HFCS in it, but no sorbate. I'm planning on fermenting that when I have a one gallon jug free.
Click to expand...

I've got some jam and jelly wine recipes around somewhere. They just need a good dose of pectic enzyme.
 
I wonder if you could mash in with 50% bread and 50% 2-row or 6-row barley and let the enzymes in the barley break down the starches in the bread. I'd say to also throw in a ton of rice hulls if you can. Should make a wheat beer in the end.
 
conpewter said:
I wonder if you could mash in with 50% bread and 50% 2-row or 6-row barley and let the enzymes in the barley break down the starches in the bread. I'd say to also throw in a ton of rice hulls if you can. Should make a wheat beer in the end.
Click to expand...


Take a look at the maltose falcon's gilgamesh experiment with the bread.

Recipes - Gilgamash Sumerian Beer - Maltose Falcons Home Brewing Society (Los Angeles Homebrewing)

My understanding though was (much like in pruno) the bread in ancient brewing where the yeast came from, that and wild (and on grape skins)

Another option would be to add an alpha amalyse like Beeno along with the 2-row, it might work alot better than beeno alone (like in the GaP thread)
 
I go two ways on this:

For the cheap beer side of it, I usually do SMaSH brews or lightly hopped american ales, and can usually pull off 5gal for less than $10 by buying bulk grains and hops, reusing/washing yeast, etc. I've wanted to do a potato beer for a while now, and will probably get around to it sometime this winter. I'm thinking this recipe ( The Beer That Made Idaho Famous or How I Mash Potatoes ) sounds like a good starting point. I know someone on here did a Spud Beer too, perhaps this past spring? (Rhoobarb? No?)

As far as drunk friends @ parties, though.... I got tired of going through all my beer, cuz honestly, I LIKE my beer, so instead I've started mixing up kegs of liquor drinks. Works like a charm, everyone gets sh1tefaced super quickly. Last time was Strawberry Margaritas, which were delicious, but somewhat expensive due to the tequila. Next time I'm gonna do carbonated mixed drink using Kool-Aid, Pineapple juice, and grain alcohol or cheap vodka.

Good luck with your conquest, I'll stay tuned!
 
Revvy Your link to the GaP is great. Very fun to read. And also nice to know that there are many people that walk around the store thinking, "If you mash it, they will come." (That was not a very good Field of Dreams joke.)

And Chriso, potatoes look like fun to me. After I try this bread thing I might move on to potatoes. I want to do it with instant mashed potatoes. That sounds like fun.
 
madewithchicken said:
Revvy Your link to the GaP is great. Very fun to read. And also nice to know that there are many people that walk around the store thinking, "If you mash it, they will come." (That was not a very good Field of Dreams joke.)

And Chriso, potatoes look like fun to me. After I try this bread thing I might move on to potatoes. I want to do it with instant mashed potatoes. That sounds like fun.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's part of the obsession...And I think you got it bad....just don't try to mash malted milk balls, brown rice and god knows what else I added with beeno...I can still smell the mess in my head if I think about it.

*shudders*

And yeah...potatoes in beer sounds interesting...I think a small batch with sweet potatoes is in my future....

I think instant potatoes would be too bland...I like how the article talked about the skins adding some character to it...kinda like the different grains add character..

have fun obsessive one!

:D
 
After talks with RichBrewer early on in the summer, and then a local guy doing one recently for a club competition, a Carrot beer is on my short list. I don't remember if Rich ever got to doing his, but my friend's used 5# shredded carrots, as well as pumpkin pie spice, and bourbon. Carrot Cake Beer. Mmmmmmm.

So there's another plentiful, cheap vegetable to consider abu- er, I mean, using for your fermentation exploration. ;)
 
Chriso said:
After talks with RichBrewer early on in the summer, and then a local guy doing one recently for a club competition, a Carrot beer is on my short list. I don't remember if Rich ever got to doing his, but my friend's used 5# shredded carrots, as well as pumpkin pie spice, and bourbon. Carrot Cake Beer. Mmmmmmm.

So there's another plentiful, cheap vegetable to consider abu- er, I mean, using for your fermentation exploration. ;)
Click to expand...


*ahem*

Carrot cake is my favorite....I really want you to come up with a recipe for this one...

(But what would you do to get the cream cheese frosting flavor in there?)

:D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
(But what would you do to get the cream cheese frosting flavor in there?)
Lactose? ;-)
Click to expand...
Noobs ;)
https://www.lorannoils.com/c-6-super-strength-flavors-candy-oils.aspx
Scroll down to "Cheesecake flavoring oil". Add a little vanilla, and you're good to go.

Personally, I'd make the base a sweet stout, add about 5# of shredded carrots to secondary, and the cheesecake flavoring oil and/or vanilla at bottling.

Maybe go with irish ale yeast for the slight diacetyl + fruitiness? Maybe a tiny, tiny touch of acidulated malt, just barely above the taste threshold.
 
Here's a starting point. Tweak, brew, whatever.

82.1 % 8.00 American Two-row Pale 41.4 2.9
2.6 % 0.25 CaraFoam 1.2 0.2
5.1 % 0.50 American Roasted Barley 2.0 45.0
5.1 % 0.50 American Crystal 80L 2.4 8.0
5.1 % 0.50 Flaked Oats 2.3 0.2

50.0 % 1.00 Northern Brewer Pellet 6.9 6.9 60 0.276 28.5
50.0 % 1.00 Fuggles Pellet 5.1 5.1 15 0.137 10.4

WLP004 for a month (I like long primaries)
on 5# carrots for 1 month..maybe longer. I've never used them before so I'd let it go a month, then taste

At bottling, add cheesecake and/or vanilla to taste

Style Comparison
Low High
OG 1.035 1.049 1.066
FG 1.010 1.012 1.022
IBU 20 39 40
SRM 24 35+
ABV 3 4.8 5.6
 
LOL, Slow down guys - Would you like to read the newsletter w/ the recipe in it? http://lincolnlagers.com/Lagers/newsLetters/LAGERS 2008 10.pdf (1MB PDF file, may take a while to download.). It's fellow HBTer Bugeaterbrewing who did it, and it was a damn fine beer.

Here's the secret:
One vanilla bean, one cinnamon stick, one half
teaspoon of freshly ground nutmeg, and one ounce
candied ginger root were steeped in four ounces of
Jim Beam bourbon for two weeks; it was then
strained and added at kegging.
Click to expand...

It was a contest where we each bought a pre-assembled "standard" kit from our LHBS with 8# 2-Row, 0.5# Cara 40L, 0.5# Special Roast, 0.5# Chocolate, 0.5# Wheat Malt, 1 oz Glacier, 1 oz Argentine Cascade, 1 oz Spalt Select, and 0.5# Maltodextrine.

You could remove up to 1# base grain from the kit, and also could add up to 1# of your own grains to the recipe, which you provided. Similarly, you could add up to 1 oz of your own hops, you could remove up to 1 oz of the provided hops, or a combination of both. The Maltodex was a bonus, and was not required to be used.

It was a very fun contest - I did a brown ale, that came out more like a brown porter, with the 40L, Special Roast, Chocolate, another 1/2lb Victory, and another 1/2 lb Flaked Maize. I left out the Arg. Casc., and used the other two hops.

I tried it at the judging - It was quite good. Well executed for sure. Done in the style of a spiced amber beer with Bavarian Weizen yeast. Enjoy!
 
How about Ketchup? Water it down, maybe mash it to get some of the tomatoes to ferment, and add some yeast.

I am only worried about the distilled vinegar in it. On and the salt propably won't help. I know that ketchup will ferment. When working at a restaurant once in a while you will hear the bottles explode. My best guess is that it starts to ferment and the pressure builds up.
 
Wouldn't do ketchup per se, as you mentioned the vinegar and salt will interfere, also cost-prohibitive for the volume needed. What about tomato juice instead?

I don't like red beer - my gut sez "no!". :p
 
Chriso said:
Wouldn't do ketchup per se, as you mentioned the vinegar and salt will interfere, also cost-prohibitive for the volume needed. What about tomato juice instead?

I don't like red beer - my gut sez "no!". :p
Click to expand...

Isn't ketchup packets one of the prime ingredient for prison wine or pruno???

Actually first the OP was talking about bread...and then ketchup...is this some disquised hooch thread???

Bleh....

Though doesn't Yooper have a tomato wine recipe?

*hurls*
 
I am surprised pjj2ba hasn't posted yet. He did a "Swedish Baked Rye Beer" (or at least I think that was the name), it came out really swell. Essentially he took a loaf(s) and mashed it (I think!).
 
I was eating some peanuts yesterday and wondering if they can somehow be mashed...or maybe the shells...I was thinking about a sweet potato and peanut beer...something sort of africanesque perhaps...
 
Make a mash with half six-row and half cheap starch (potatoes, popcorn, etc.) Do a long (1 hr) rest at, say, 145 F, then up it to 155 F until conversion (could be a long time). You may need some rice hulls. Boil it up and add some table sugar. Use a neutral, high-alcohol yeast like champagne yeast. Will not taste a thing like beer, but it shouldn't be too bad.
 
Here's the grain bill for my half-baked swedish rye beer with the bread portion listed in terms of the bread's ingredients.

I undershot my gravity by .004 points, but I think that was probably an error in the calculations as the conversion was complete. I think a 50:50 6-row to bread would convert fine. For those looking to make something tasty, not just cheap and alcoholic, I'd up the specially malts over what I have here. Think of the bread merely as a base malt. It contributes some flavor, but not like what you get out of a specialty malt. I was half expecting a rich-ish beer, but it wasn't. The beer was actually fairly light in the body and very clean tasting. It might be interesting to toast the bread before mashing it. I sliced the bread and let it stale for a day and then processed it into bread crumbs and added it to the mash. I'm thinking I'll brew versions of this at least twice this winter. I used a trappist yeast and the beer scored a 37 in the National HBC this year.

2.5 lbs 6-row
1.5 lb Marris Otter
1.0 lb Rye malt - figured I'd go all out to emphasize the rye
8 oz crystal 150
6 oz Special B (raisin to go with the rum)
4 oz Aromatic

2.42 lb wheat flour
0.4 lb rye flour
6 oz sugar
5 oz molasses
 
My original thought was a pumpernickel beer that evolved into the rye bread beer. I've got a holiday saison I need to keg that is an attempt at a "fruit cake" beer, sans fruit cake.
 
It may very well be one of the above links, sorry I am lazy.

I do recall reading somewhere that there was a method long ago for essentially baking a loaf as a means of mashing. In other words make a coarse dough from malted barley, wheat what have you. Bake it enough to convert the starches (mash) and then tear it into chunks, boil it with your hops (herbs historically), cool and ferment. The outer crust formed on the bread would be not good but the inner portion as long as you do not bake it too long/too hot would get converted.

Sparked an interest for me because I am also a baker. Never tried it though.
 
Zymurgrafi said:
It may very well be one of the above links, sorry I am lazy.

I do recall reading somewhere that there was a method long ago for essentially baking a loaf as a means of mashing. In other words make a coarse dough from malted barley, wheat what have you. Bake it enough to convert the starches (mash) and then tear it into chunks, boil it with your hops (herbs historically), cool and ferment. The outer crust formed on the bread would be not good but the inner portion as long as you do not bake it too long/too hot would get converted.

Sparked an interest for me because I am also a baker. Never tried it though.
Click to expand...

You mean the Gilgamesh Beer with the Bappir Bread...

Recipes - Gilgamash Sumerian Beer - Maltose Falcons Home Brewing Society (Los Angeles Homebrewing)
 
madewithchicken said:
-Jellies and jams (I have tried but i need to explore it more.)
Click to expand...

I made Joe's Ancient Orange Mead a couple years ago. I added a can of my mother in law's home made orange marmalade. It turned out very good. She always gives us a huge gift basket around the holidays filled with her canned veggies, fruits, jellies and jams. I'll probably try another one this year.
 
I've always wanted to make an Oatmeal raisin cookie stout... any ideas anyone?

mmmm.. raisin cookies...
 
I was contemplating an Oatmeal Raisin Cookie beer!!! I made up a recipe last winter, but never brewed it.

I'd say between 0.5# to even a whopping 1.0# Special B malt. Another .25# of Caramel 120L. OATS. How about both Flaked Oats *and* Oat Malt? And some of that Golden Naked Oats or whatever it is - it's supposed to be nutty and oaty and bready. And then, I would do a little cinnamon near the end of the boil. Maybe even a *small* amount, maybe 2oz by weight, of Molasses, to simulate the taste of Brown Sugar.... (Brown sugar ferments out too thin for my liking!) Hops are easy, 0.5oz or less of EKG or Fuggle or Tett or Willamette at 60 minutes, nothin' else.
 
Chriso said:
I was contemplating an Oatmeal Raisin Cookie beer!!! I made up a recipe last winter, but never brewed it.

I'd say between 0.5# to even a whopping 1.0# Special B malt. Another .25# of Caramel 120L. OATS. How about both Flaked Oats *and* Oat Malt? And some of that Golden Naked Oats or whatever it is - it's supposed to be nutty and oaty and bready. And then, I would do a little cinnamon near the end of the boil. Maybe even a *small* amount, maybe 2oz by weight, of Molasses, to simulate the taste of Brown Sugar.... (Brown sugar ferments out too thin for my liking!) Hops are easy, 0.5oz or less of EKG or Fuggle or Tett or Willamette at 60 minutes, nothin' else.
Click to expand...


MMmmm.. that sounds delish... i might just tweak that some and toss in some diced raisins either at the end of boil or into primary, but not sure how much flavor that might give.. don't want to add too much.

:mug:
 
Humm...Would hate to have an awesome Oatmeal cookie beer get jacked up by odd flavors/textures ...Thanks for the link tho Chriso :)

..where's the math nerds when you need them?..
 

Similar threads

Needhelpasaphelphelp
Need help with Kvass
Replies
2
Views
442
IslandLizard
IslandLizard
Matthew Wilson
Some advice please for a Newbie
Replies
6
Views
457
Matthew Wilson
Matthew Wilson
F
what grains do i need to turn my straw pilsner into a golden lager
Replies
7
Views
763
hottpeper13
H
Z
Ginger Beer vs. Fermenting Grape Must
Replies
2
Views
337
Z_L
Z
D
Name says it all! Don't know much but will share my experiences with all! :)
Replies
2
Views
276
OakIslandBrewery
OakIslandBrewery
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top