Age limit to brew??

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fat x nub

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So i was talking to a friend today and he said that he was gunna let his son start brewing when he was around 15 years old and do it through high school. But he said that his son (5 yeasr old) had to appreciate it as an art and not an excuse to drink. I was cool with it...what do u guys think?
 
Most states you cant work in a brewery till your 18yo so not sure if that carries over to brewing at home or not but I would imagine that it would. But none the less a god way to get young kids to appreciate alcohol and its wonders before they get to the "Lets get drunk and stupid" age.
 
Most states you cant work in a brewery till your 18yo so not sure if that carries over to brewing at home or not but I would imagine that it would. But none the less a god way to get young kids to appreciate alcohol and its wonders before they get to the "Lets get drunk and stupid" age.

i agree with that. i live in georgia and its legal for minors to drink in their house if the parents supply the alcohol...so i wonder about brewing
 
I think if they can appreciate it, then good for them. For the most part, I think, you'll hear the other side of this argument in this particular forum (banning any user under 21).

The person who got me into homebrewing was winning competitions (in the U.S.) when he was < 21. There is even a brewpub in this country where the master brewer's son (18) brews along side him. This son brewed an award winning dopplebock all by himself that was served that the GABF a year or two ago.

It's perfectly legal to brew beer if you're under 21 as long as you don't pitch the yeast. My LHBS will do it and I'm sure many others will. There's a user on another board (in my area, buying from my same LHBS) who's 15 and I've heard he brews great beer. But again, it's all about appreciation and respect and love of the beer and of what you're doing and trying to accomplish.

If my daughter (now 3) wants to learn more about it and I judge her to be of sound judgement, I'll let her start learning about it whenever she wants.
 
Jim Koch of Sam Adams said at the NHC address this year that he taught his girls to brew when they were in kindergarten. They make beer for thier mother on Mothers Day.

He quipped that he wasn't sure why he waited so long.

Hear the keynote speech here:
http://tinyurl.com/6qa5dx
 
According to Georgia law, only the head of household may brew.

http://www.beertown.org/statutes/georgia.htm

3-5-4 Production of malt beverages by a head of household for consumption within own household.

(a) A head of a household may produce 50 gallons of malt beverages in any one calendar year to be consumed within his or her own household without any requirement to be licensed for such purpose. No malt beverages produced under this subsection shall be sold or offered for sale. Malt beverages so produced shall not be subject to any excise tax imposed by this chapter.

(b) For purposes of this Code section, a single person who is not a dependent of another person for purposes of Georgia income taxation shall be considered a head of a household. Section 2. All laws and parts of laws in conflict with this Act are repealed.
 
I think if they can appreciate it, then good for them. For the most part, I think, you'll hear the other side of this argument in this particular forum (banning any user under 21).

I disagree, in that I think most people on the forum would agree with you :confused:

The banning of under-21 members has nothing to do with the beliefs of the community here, and everything to do with potential legal/liability issues.

My oldest is three. He likes beer (shhhhh...). As soon as he's old enough to understand what's going on (and shows any interest), he'll help me brew.
 
I disagree, in that I think most people on the forum would agree with you :confused:

The banning of under-21 members has nothing to do with the beliefs of the community here, and everything to do with potential legal/liability issues.

My oldest is three. He likes beer (shhhhh...). As soon as he's old enough to understand what's going on (and shows any interest), he'll help me brew.
I find that most really young kids like beer.


Also, IMO, if you can teach someone to appreciate beer, especially when they're young, then they will be much less likely to abuse it and may in fact actually appreciate it when they're older.
 
well, it's not illegal to "brew", it's illegal to pitch the yeast. Daddy or someone can do it for him/her.

Also, no one's going to care what you do in your own home. As long as i doesn't go further than that no one's the wiser and everyone stays happy.
 
i agree with that. i live in georgia and its legal for minors to drink in their house if the parents supply the alcohol...so i wonder about brewing

no offense intended before I offend you. but that sounds pretty ummmm.... stupid to me. what type of parent would allow their minor child to drink? As a child their brains and bodies are still developing and it doesn't seem wise to allow their primary role model to condone the under age consumption of a substance that reduces the ability to reason and has been proven to cause medical issues even in fully matured human beings(and lab rats). If it was actually possible to limit their consumption and amount consumed to when they were with their parents on special occasions, like maybe a (1)beer after the triptaphan(spellcheck) in the turkey was taking affect, then I might see your reasoning. They pass out and therefore think drinking aint all that much fun. Kids should learn for themselves(not through the help of role models) after they have reached the age that society has deemed acceptable, whether or not they want to drink socially. Otherwise we will have many future generations of self righteous drunks like me(and probably you) to blame all of society's problems on. I would apologize for that tirade but I have strong feelings on underage drinking due to the death of a family member at the hands of an underage drunk.
 
Kids should learn for themselves(not through the help of role models) after they have reached the age that society has deemed acceptable, whether or not they want to drink socially.

Are you kidding me? You know how that turns out 95% of the time? An all nighter on the toilet that is questionable that it should be a trip to the ER. I see it every week. Hell come August, I'll see it every night.

If there's one thing I feel strongly about it is that kids should NOT introduce themselves(or friends etc) to alcohol.
 
OK, for the record I don't have kids, but let me tell you, on any given day I see young MEN who have done at least one tour of duty in combat zones, got the purple heart and additional belly button, and can not legally go into a bar and have a beer.
I also feel that table salt is a lot more dangerous in the long term and should be banned by the FDA, but hey that would make sense.
In Europe I saw a lot of kids sitting at the bar, I also saw a lot of drunks on the side of the street at all ages. I think having kids who understand the good and the bad of alcohol will do the best, not the kids who go off to college and kill themselves with alcohol poisoning, or rapping their car around something because they have no idea and are finally free to experiment. It's like handing a loaded gun to a 5 year old and telling him its time to play cops and robbers.
Oh, no politics on this board so I'm trying to keep it real.
 
Kids should learn for themselves(not through the help of role models) after they have reached the age that society has deemed acceptable, whether or not they want to drink socially. Otherwise we will have many future generations of self righteous drunks like me(and probably you) to blame all of society's problems on.
yeah so the kids can go out and get alcohol poisoning and die. if kids introduce themselves to alcohol they are doing it behind their parents back and drinkingwith their friends planning on gettign drunk...and im not a drunk BTW

no offense intended before I offend you. but that sounds pretty ummmm.... stupid to me. what type of parent would allow their minor child to drink?

i was just stating the law...i never said i suppored it
 
no offense intended before I offend you. but that sounds pretty ummmm.... stupid to me. what type of parent would allow their minor child to drink? As a child their brains and bodies are still developing and it doesn't seem wise to allow their primary role model to condone the under age consumption of a substance that reduces the ability to reason and has been proven to cause medical issues even in fully matured human beings(and lab rats). If it was actually possible to limit their consumption and amount consumed to when they were with their parents on special occasions, like maybe a (1)beer after the triptaphan(spellcheck) in the turkey was taking affect, then I might see your reasoning. They pass out and therefore think drinking aint all that much fun. Kids should learn for themselves(not through the help of role models) after they have reached the age that society has deemed acceptable, whether or not they want to drink socially. Otherwise we will have many future generations of self righteous drunks like me(and probably you) to blame all of society's problems on. I would apologize for that tirade but I have strong feelings on underage drinking due to the death of a family member at the hands of an underage drunk.

I started having a glass of wine when I was about 7 with birthday dinners, holiday dinners, and the like. I choose when I drink, what I drink, how much I drink, and have no problem behaving responsibly (or irresponsibly in a responsible environment, ie no driving period). Giving me wine or the occasional sip of beer didn't ruin me as a person, and I have never endangered someone, before or after legal age, as a consequence of my drinking.

Really, if a dad says to his son "want a slug of beer?" and lets him have a sip, the beer police aren't going to show up and arrest him for giving alcohol to a minor. The beer police have far more important things to do, like arrest people who ask why their airlock took 3 days to start bubbling.

I understand why you have issues, and I'm sorry for your loss, but let's step back here. I will bet you a hundred dollars without knowing a thing about the incident that the underage kid in your case was *not* drinking under the supervision of a parent, and therein lies the problem. The parents haven't taught their child responsibility, hadn't taught the kid to think of the consequences *before* the drinking starts, because after it starts, forethought like that goes out the window.

All I can say is that pure abstinence only education for sex doesn't work, and often promotes ignorance and poor judgment. I can only figure total abstinence "education" for alcohol would turn out similar results. It's a complex, complicated problem, and saying "kid, you're on your own when you turn 21" leads to binge drinking, stomach pumps, and Girls Gone Wild on DVD (hmm... maybe it's not such a bad thing...)

I'll get off of my political soap box here. I've known and worked with a few teenage alcoholics (binge drinking at 12 in one case) and without exception a lack of parental involvement was not the cure, but one of the causatives. Alcoholism, like many different kinds of addiction, so often relates back to emotional issues that it's not funny. Abandoning someone with potential addiction tendencies to "figure it out on their own" is almost promising an addiction, not the prevention of it.
 
Remind me to keep my kids away from Beerthirty's kids.

You know who were the worst binge drinkers in college? The ones whose parents had a zero-tolerance alcohol policy. They weren't introduced to alcohol as it should be introduced: as a social thing, done in moderation, not to be abused. Instead, they were taught that it was to be off-limits and therefore didn't know what to do when, come college, they were exposed to copious amounts of it.

So, given this lack of experience, they went ballistic

I cannot think of a worse parenting strategy than adopting a zero-tolerance attitude, then sending them off one day to "find out about it on their own". It'd be like never letting your kid drive, then, on their 16th birthday, handing them the keys to a Lotus and saying "hey, have fun, see ya".

Like I said, remind me to keep my kids away from beerthirty's kids!
 
what type of parent would allow their minor child to drink?
Well, me for one. I've two kids, one twenty-three the other eighteen. Once around sixteen or seventeen, both were allowed to have a (small) glass of wine with dinner when we did. My son (eighteen) rarely has anything to drink, my daughter often has a drink when out with friends (or us); if she has more than one or two, she plans ahead. At her insistence, when out with friends and any significant drinking is going on -- and, by that, I don't mean staggering drunk, just "over the legal limit" drinking -- there is always a designated driver. She's helped educate her friends on that matter as well.

To my mind, it's much more a matter of teaching kids about responsibility than a matter of teaching them about drinking. The same can be said for driving (not drinking and driving, just driving); a lot of kids or the road have no business on the road sober because they haven't been taught responsibility. Generally speaking, it's my belief that kids who have problems controlling their drinking tend to have been shorted the lessons of responsibility, or at least they didn't take those lessons to heart.

I'm truly sorry there was a loss in your family, but the problem with a drunk driver of any age is more about a lack of understanding responsibility than a problem with drinking, and the drunk driver has so indicated his/her lack of learning that life lesson when he/she got behind the wheel.

Rick
 
You know who were the worst binge drinkers in college? The ones whose parents had a zero-tolerance alcohol policy. They weren't introduced to alcohol as it should be introduced: as a social thing, done in moderation, not to be abused. Instead, they were taught that it was to be off-limits and therefore didn't know what to do when, come college, they were exposed to copious amounts of it.

My kids have been exposed to alcohol at an early age, usually with a sip of champagne at Midnight at New Years Eve. My daughter went to Germany at 16 as a foreign exchange student and drank beer and got to see all the boys throw up. :drunk: She's 20 now and has an occasional glass of Apfelwein, but has to ask permission first. I don't see any problems with it.

Oh Yeah, at school, she's a beer snob cause at all the parties, it's Natty Light or Milwaukee's Best (whatever is cheapest with the highest alcohol %) and she won't drink it.
 
+1 to parents introducing their kids to alcohol in a responsible fashion. I was allowed by my mom and stepdad to have a small glass of wine on holidays starting when I was about 12 or 13. When I hit 16 or 17, I was given the option of a glass of wine with dinner once or twice a week. I usually did not take it. My alcohol consumption today is moderate and usually done in a responsible manner (spending the night or have a DD). My older siblings on the other hand, who were raised with my very strict father, all have issues with alcohol and have had many personal problems caused by that. Does that mean I've never drunk too much and been ill? No. But it does mean that I had a more gradual introduction to alcohol and did not just jump in feet first when I got to college (where it is available in copious amounts to underage students). The more you restrict something and make it seem mysterious and off-limits, the more kids are going to want to get their hands on it.
 
I've been exposed to alcohol since I was around 12 years old. My family tends to have a European outlook on things given that they lived overseas when my Mom and her siblings were growing up plus my grandfather is a wine connoisseur and felt it was important to teach his grandchildren how to appreciate good wine. I'm thankful for having been introduced to alcohol as something to be savored and enjoyed (like good food) rather than as something to be drunk as cold and as quickly as possible to get smashed while doing keg stands.

I have no problem with a parent wanting to teach their child how to brew, it actually sounds like a great way to spend time with your kid (something a lot of parents don't do enough of these days).
 
I have been exposed to alcohol from the toddler stage and up, by a father that does not realize he has a problem. Thankfully, I noticed the problem and was educated second hand(it also worked for smoking). Today, I am a low-key drinker when I can afford a good beer. I do not see a problem with introducing alcohol to young adults in the home as long as it is responsible. Ultimately, the parent needs to be wise enough to handle the situation. Not the case too often if you follow typical news report.

Reading all of this thread and another about weekend benders just points out the issues with responsible parenting. Unfortunately, parents want to take a backseat in educating their children by dropping them off at the state sponsored daycare centers we call school.

This issue is not restricted to alcohol awareness but includes: sex, drugs, personal finances (CC debt!), driving safety, internet safety, personal relationships,.... Unfortunately, many parents choose the route of hands-off and let them learn the hard way. This leads to young adults that binge, have kids before readiness, diseases, and death.

Time to get off the box..... Just a note though, history demonstrates that this is not a new issue. But it is a good lesson from some:)
 
OK, for the record I don't have kids, but let me tell you, on any given day I see young MEN who have done at least one tour of duty in combat zones, got the purple heart and additional belly button, and can not legally go into a bar and have a beer.
I also feel that table salt is a lot more dangerous in the long term and should be banned by the FDA, but hey that would make sense.
In Europe I saw a lot of kids sitting at the bar, I also saw a lot of drunks on the side of the street at all ages. I think having kids who understand the good and the bad of alcohol will do the best, not the kids who go off to college and kill themselves with alcohol poisoning, or rapping their car around something because they have no idea and are finally free to experiment. It's like handing a loaded gun to a 5 year old and telling him its time to play cops and robbers.
Oh, no politics on this board so I'm trying to keep it real.

This sums it up for me (especially as a former Marine who couldn't legally "go out for a beer", but could have died for my country), but I'll add a few words. First of all, law aside, age 21 is a pretty ridiculous drinking age. I think that's pretty evident by the fact that we're (practically) the only "western" country to have a drinking age this high. I'm not condoning breaking the law, but I am condoning the changing of it. It's also disheartening for democracy, to see how individual states were strong-armed into making this the drinking age... it's not a federal law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_Act

Everyone I've met whose parents RESPONSIBLY exposed them to alcohol as a teenager (small glass of wine/beer with dinner type of thing), grew up to be responsible drinkers. Many people I know whose parents made alcohol taboo and said they shouldn't drink until they were 21, have had drinking problems as an adult.
 
I'm going to come down on both sides of the fence here. My parents had a zero tolerance attitude toward drinking when I was in high school, but they also coupled that with many teachings about responsibility. As in, if I were at a party and felt compelled to drink, I could call home for a ride with no judgment made. However, they made it known that the wise choice was to be smart.

It probably helped that I was offered a college scholarship to play baseball and I wasn't going to jeopardize that in any way, certainly not after seeing how hard my folks worked to allow me to get to that point. In high school, I was glad to play the part of DD for my friends and they appreciated it, too.

When I got to college, I did the drinking thing occasionally. Only once did I drink to the point of getting sick and hated it enough to never do it again. Plus, the baseball team had rules and, again, I wasn't going to put the scholarship at risk.

Yes, it comes down to responsibility. No, I don't for a second believe a zero tolerance policy pushes underage kids to drink more. Basically, it's a decision kids make to either be smart or crumble under the effects of peer pressure.

All that said, my young girls see their parents have a beer or wine with dinner fairly frequently. They don't see obsession with alcohol or any aberrant behavoir because of it. They see responsible adults. I'm sure it will leave an impression later in their lives.
 
My 5 year old son loves helping me with brewing. Although he will disperse very quickly if he hears that SpongeBob is on! I feel its ok to help in the process of making beer, but he will have to wait till he is old enough to consume it.
 
The real answer is: It depends on the state. In California, there is a 13-year old that is brewing commercially. His parents own the brewery, but he is the brewmaster.
 
Bike N Brew said:
Kids should learn for themselves(not through the help of role models) after they have reached the age that society has deemed acceptable, whether or not they want to drink socially.

Are you kidding me? You know how that turns out 95% of the time? An all nighter on the toilet that is questionable that it should be a trip to the ER. I see it every week. Hell come August, I'll see it every night.

If there's one thing I feel strongly about it is that kids should NOT introduce themselves(or friends etc) to alcohol.

Ummmm, z987k, that's not my quote. I'm not the one who needs the nanny state to tell me when drinking is acceptable...
I believe you meant to cite beerthirty.
 
My 4 year old is my assistant. She is going to be the best brewer in the world by the time shes 21. She knows a good crush, rubs the hops in her hands before smelling them, and knows when fermentation is doing per airlock activity. Not bad for her age.
 
I think, legally, there is nothing to say that a minor can't do it. Right up to the point that it's been in the bucket for 7 days with yeast.

Up to the point of fermentation, you have essentially made Malt Goya. And there is nothing illeagal about that regardless of age.
 
A few years ago, my friend's 16-year-old son asked when he could drink a beer. My friend replied "you can drink all the beer you brew." He did not mean it as a condition to allow the son to get hammered, or anything like that. Rather, it was a challenge to learn responsibility.

If the boy was going to have a beer, he had to learn about beer and brewing. He was going to have to learn how to appreciate not only the beer, but the craft that goes into it. Appreciation is the first step in learning responsibility. So far, the kid has brewed a little and drank a little. He's doing quite well.

I think it also helped that my friend followed up with something like "if I ever see you remotely drunk before you're 21, unless I got you that way, I'll break your legs. If I ever hear that you drove a car after drinking, that you got into a car with someone under 21 who had been drinking, or that you got into a car with anyone drunk, you better just keep on going."


TL
 
I think, legally, there is nothing to say that a minor can't do it. Right up to the point that it's been in the bucket for 7 days with yeast.

That is not true. Every state definition I am aware of essentially calls the stuff "beer" once the yeast is pitched and considers pitching yeast to be making alcohol. That is why everyone is talking about how it should be no problem for a minor to do everything but pitch the yeast.


TL
 
My daughter's been involved with "helping" me brew pretty much since day 1. She takes trips to the "beer store" with me. She helped me make a batch of apfelwein. She helps me bottle, I'll fill and cap, she'll put them in the boxes. Last weekend, I asked her on Saturday night what she wanted to do the next day, she said "let's make beer!" (and I hadn't said anything to her about brewing, in fact I didn't have time to brew).

The original plan was to make sure she was prepared in case she found herself at a party with a strange boy offering her a vanilla cream ale, but the general idea is just to make sure that she understands what beer is, how it should be consumed, how it should be respected. I also want to take away that "it's FORBIDDEN!" aspect to it; beer is beer, it's no big deal, getting sloshed at a party isn't really rebelling. I've stated that my goal is when she finds herself inevitably at a party at some senior's house, whose parents are out of town, and someone offers her a Bud Light - she replies "Don't you have a Three Philisophers or something else GOOD?"
 
That is not true. Every state definition I am aware of essentially calls the stuff "beer" once the yeast is pitched and considers pitching yeast to be making alcohol. That is why everyone is talking about how it should be no problem for a minor to do everything but pitch the yeast.


TL

That is what I was saying essentially but being more specific as to the presence of alcohol.

By your definition are you inferring that beer is made once the yeast is pitched?

So then lets say the wort is made but no yeast is pitched. True at this point you have Malta Goya but what if you just leave the lid off? It will ferment.

My point is, it ain't beer til' there is alcohol. Regardless of who or how the yeast was added.
 
The original plan was to make sure she was prepared in case she found herself at a party with a strange boy offering her a vanilla cream ale, but the general idea is just to make sure that she understands what beer is, how it should be consumed, how it should be respected. I also want to take away that "it's FORBIDDEN!" aspect to it; beer is beer, it's no big deal, getting sloshed at a party isn't really rebelling. I've stated that my goal is when she finds herself inevitably at a party at some senior's house, whose parents are out of town, and someone offers her a Bud Light - she replies "Don't you have a Three Philisophers or something else GOOD?"


which is why you're the man. I feel the same way.
 
Ummmm, z987k, that's not my quote. I'm not the one who needs the nanny state to tell me when drinking is acceptable...
I believe you meant to cite beerthirty.

Hmm, that's interesting, I never changed it, but it's beerthirty I was quoting.
 
no offense intended before I offend you. but that sounds pretty ummmm.... stupid to me. what type of parent would allow their minor child to drink? As a child their brains and bodies are still developing and it doesn't seem wise to allow their primary role model to condone the under age consumption of a substance that reduces the ability to reason and has been proven to cause medical issues even in fully matured human beings(and lab rats). If it was actually possible to limit their consumption and amount consumed to when they were with their parents on special occasions, like maybe a (1)beer after the triptaphan(spellcheck) in the turkey was taking affect, then I might see your reasoning. They pass out and therefore think drinking aint all that much fun. Kids should learn for themselves(not through the help of role models) after they have reached the age that society has deemed acceptable, whether or not they want to drink socially. Otherwise we will have many future generations of self righteous drunks like me(and probably you) to blame all of society's problems on. I would apologize for that tirade but I have strong feelings on underage drinking due to the death of a family member at the hands of an underage drunk.


So it begins:ban:
 
+1 - responsibility and education. My 9yo helps me brew - we go to beer festivals and we talk. Seeing your daughter standing in front of a bushel of hops - reaching in and grabbing some rubbing her hands and smelling them... makes me *chokes up* so proud.

Some kids will just have to learn from their mistakes - they need extra encouragement (or a good kick in the @ss.) Many others will learn responsibility, they know that it is not just a party drug for when the authorities are not looking. They will not drink themselves into a AP coma. They will not end up in a park choking on vomit because they know that Daddy is going to come down all zero tolerance on them.
 
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