Lip Service - I know, another rant

I know I'm going to lose it one of these days. Lip service, or worse, the cold shoulder, just drives me up the wall. This latest string of events started with Tule Duck Brewing. When they first showed up here in the Nashville area, I thought, yay, something new to try. I bought a 4 pack of Tule Duck Red Ale. This product comes in cans, novel in a way, but the description of the beer was right in my wheelhouse. Chilled it down and tried one the next day..... yuck. It was perfectly flat and sour to the point of skunky. I ditched it and opened another, same result, one more.... no change. I saved the last one and sent an email to the Tule Duck people. First I got a bland apology with an offer to "make it right". I wasn't looking for free beer, just good beer, and I thought they might care that they had bad product on the shelf. After my second email I got a response saying that their beer was supposed to be slightly sour and possibly "not for my palate." That was all I needed to hear. No more Tule Duck for me. Then about two months later one of the folks at the package store where I bought the beer told me that Tule Duck removed all of that lot of beer from their shelves because it had an infection of some sort. Seems like the Tule Duck people might have 'fessed up to their mistake. Whatever. I actually caved in and bought another 4 pack of this a couple of months later just to see, and it was pretty good.
A couple of months ago, I had a similar experience with Sweetwater IPA. I love this beer, but I got a bad six pack and told them about it. Again, not expecting anything, just trying to let them know. Again, lip service.
Today, in one of my frequent brewpubs here in Nashville, I ordered a beer from their rotating cask, because I like what usually shows up there. I know what to expect. This time there was nothing wrong with the taste, just zero carbonation. Not light carbonation, it was cold, dead, flat. Just like when you pull an FG sample from your secondary. Once again, lip service, and they kept serving the same crap.
What is up with this attitude?

They think they are special because most craft beer people will trip over themselves to get to a bad batch of Dogfish Head rather than drink a perfectly brewed, totally consistent Budweiser. Most brewers are not your friends, they just act like it because they know we mostly fall for it. It's a business, and you are a dollar sign. Everybody says "Vinnie" and "Sam" as if these guys are their buddies. It's actually kind of funny.

I got a bad six pack from River Horse Brewery (NJ) about 4 years ago. Haven't tasted a single drop of their beer since, and never will. They had the disrespect to let that batch hit the shelves, they don't deserve my money.

I wouldn't go as far as the OP.

Most likely I would do what Airborneguy did. You get 1 shot with me, then I'm done being a customer.

The company would have to go above and beyond (replace my 6 pack at minimum) to get me to come back.

Talk with your wallet - it's the only way businesses learn to change. You can ***** at them until you're purple, but it's not until the bottom line shrinks that most companies learn to find their problems and fix them.

The exceptions to this rule are the companies that take a proactive approach to customer service. These businesses, regardless of their industry, tend to be wildly successful and can afford to go the extra mile with their customers so that their word-of-mouth advertising is all positive.

Wow. Harsh.

Accidents happen and it's quite possible that beer could make it to the shelves without there being a noticeable problem. Especially for smaller breweries who don't have an expensive QC setup.

I don't think bad beer should hit the shelves, and I doubt any brewer really wants that too. But cut them some slack. They are not mortal men. Maybe the brewer, or the managements got screwed by some QC person who wanted to Cover their ass for a mistake instead of owning up to it. Maybe those people got fired. Maybe there was an upgrade and something got missed in the process.

Any number of things could have happened without their knowledge. What separates them from the lowlifes is their commitment to making it right and improving when something does go wrong.

I've had a gusher from a bottle of Atwater. Would I stop buying their beer? Yes, but only because I've tried a bunch of it and I just don't care for it. Obviously there was a QC problem.

I'd also suggest communicating with the QC department or brewer. Oftentimes the person responsible for taking calls and emails is assuming you don't know much about "craft" beer and thinks you don't get the flavors they have. If you told a brewer what you tasted, with proper brewing descriptions, they might take it more seriously. After all, it's their personal pride on the line.

Homer, you're definitely a patient person. I'd say that the OP is even rather forgiving as well. I'd say most people are like ABG and the others. Anytime I read or hear anything from successful brewers, they're always preaching quality and consistency. Never let a bad batch hit the market. They assume that they have one chance with the consumer and that their reputation is more improtant than anything. As harsh as it may be, craft beer has to be better because it's more expensive. The craft beer market's hook is that we cost more because our beer is better. It's all image and reputation.

Personally, I have too much choice nowadays to worry about giving a brewery a second shot. If their pale ale (or whatever style), isn't up to snuff the first time, I'd rather spend my money on another brand which might be.

rednekhippiemotrcyclfreak said:

Today, in one of my frequent brewpubs here in Nashville, I ordered a beer from their rotating cask, because I like what usually shows up there. I know what to expect. This time there was nothing wrong with the taste, just zero carbonation. Not light carbonation, it was cold, dead, flat. Just like when you pull an FG sample from your secondary. Once again, lip service, and they kept serving the same crap.
What is up with this attitude?

Click to expand...

Was that the mango IPA at the Saucer? You do realize that cask beers are naturally carbonated at a very low level? Absolutely delicious btw.


_

JJL said:

Homer, you're definitely a patient person. I'd say that the OP is even rather forgiving as well. I'd say most people are like ABG and the others. Anytime I read or hear anything from successful brewers, they're always preaching quality and consistency. Never let a bad batch hit the market. They assume that they have one chance with the consumer and that their reputation is more improtant than anything. As harsh as it may be, craft beer has to be better because it's more expensive. The craft beer market's hook is that we cost more because our beer is better. It's all image and reputation.

Click to expand...

Better is great, but with a new business there is the chance that "something" is going to go wrong. Again, due to QC department growing pains. Many of the young craft breweries are hardly more experienced at selling beer than an experienced homebrewer. They may not yet have a handle on what it takes to make sure each and every batch is absolutely not going to reach a customer. That is not to say that they don't make great beer. Just that accidents can and will happen. It's just that some have the tools and experience to deal with those problems.

Bells beer had an issue not that long ago. I'm not going to stop buying Bells beer simply because they got a bad batch of sanitizer, or whatever, and it somehow got through. They found out and apologized and recalled the beer and tried to make it right.

But if you want to deny yourself the possibility of drinking exceptional beer, just because of a single mistake, feel free. I personally think that's an arrogant, elitist attitude to have. No professional brewer I know would be anything but horrified to find out they aren't serving the best beer they can.

It's not arrogant and elitist if you think about it from the point of view of the sheer volume of beer we have out there nowadays. My beverage store is well-stocked with multiple examples of almost every beer style both recognized and imagined. I can easily drink a different brand/style of beer every day for the next ten years. Not to mention, there are more popping up every month. From that standpoint, why should I bother to give a brewery second or third chances?

I think a lot of brewers think that people are not sure what beer is supposed to taste like. Every beer I have given my dad he thinks is terrible. Every beer I have ever bought for my dad at a pub he thinks is terrible. He just does not know what beer is supposed to be like. He is not a drinker. I think a lot of the brewers think the general public is my dad and we have no idea what we are talking about when we complain.

Well put Homer.

I moved this to the commercial beer discussion.

Airborneguy said:

It's not arrogant and elitist if you think about it from the point of view of the sheer volume of beer we have out there nowadays. My beverage store is well-stocked with multiple examples of almost every beer style both recognized and imagined. I can easily drink a different brand/style of beer every day for the next ten years. Not to mention, there are more popping up every month. From that standpoint, why should I bother to give a brewery second or third chances?

Click to expand...

In that case I can only say that I am glad to see you are so fortunate to live so close to an almost unlimited selection of good beer. I could only dream of a store offering 3650 different beers.

It's an awesome time to be into craft beer

I was just at my store yesterday and they showed me 2 new brands and 4 new beers from brands they already carried. My last visit was two weeks ago.

Homercidal said:

Better is great, but with a new business there is the chance that "something" is going to go wrong. Again, due to QC department growing pains. Many of the young craft breweries are hardly more experienced at selling beer than an experienced homebrewer. They may not yet have a handle on what it takes to make sure each and every batch is absolutely not going to reach a customer. That is not to say that they don't make great beer. Just that accidents can and will happen. It's just that some have the tools and experience to deal with those problems.

Bells beer had an issue not that long ago. I'm not going to stop buying Bells beer simply because they got a bad batch of sanitizer, or whatever, and it somehow got through. They found out and apologized and recalled the beer and tried to make it right.

But if you want to deny yourself the possibility of drinking exceptional beer, just because of a single mistake, feel free. I personally think that's an arrogant, elitist attitude to have. No professional brewer I know would be anything but horrified to find out they aren't serving the best beer they can.

Click to expand...

It's not elitist at all. It's simply economical. Your Bell's example is well taken, but doesn't exactly apply. You got a bad batch from an established brewery that you have a history with. You have the luxury of knowing this was just a bad batch from past experience, and also your general knowledge of brewing.

I'm speaking more generally of public response, and of breweries with less established track records. If a person spends $10 on a 6 pack from a new brewery (or at least a brewery that is new to them), and the beer isn't to their liking, then they aren't likely to spend $10 on that company's product again. Most people don't know enough to chalk something up to being a bad batch, and most don't care.

I am personally a little more forgiving in some cases. If it's a beer from a brewery I know of, or that has been recommended to me, I'd be willing to give them a second look. If they are a brewery I've never heard of, and their beer is bad, then that may be their only shot with me.

I really think the new brewer has the worst case scenario in terms quality standards. They can't hire QC, like you pointed out, but they, more than anyone, need to assure that no bad product gets to market. They are new and have no reputation. As a consumer, it's hard to assume that this was just a bad batch. It may be cliche, but it's true that if going pro was easy, everyone would do it.

Airborneguy said:

It's an awesome time to be into craft beer

I was just at my store yesterday and they showed me 2 new brands and 4 new beers from brands they already carried. My last visit was two weeks ago.

Click to expand...

It most definitely is!

I agree with the idea that if they are an established brewery with beer I normally enjoy and have a bad batch, it's an anomoly and I'll wait a while to get another 6 pack, but won't cut them out. It seems that Rouge and Magic Hat had this issue a couple of months ago with a bomber of Dead Guy Ale and a 6'er of #9, respectively.

However, to the new brewer entering the market saturated with solid, proven choices, if they don't grasp your attention, then they are likely a 1 and done purchase. They had a 6 pack of 6 different Belgiums last Christmas that obviously had some transport issues, each bottle had the same terrible, awful aftertaste and was a complete waste. (Two of the beers were Golden Drake and Piraat)

As Airborneguy stated, there are too many choices to consumers these days to enter a market with a product that fails to please on the first try.

wildwest450 said:

You do realize that cask beers are naturally carbonated at a very low level?

Click to expand...

I'm wondering the same thing. I was lucky enough to be in Philadelphia during Philly Beer week this year and had just about every cask beer I found and I was initially shocked by how little carbonation was in cask beer. Once you get past that, it's fantastic.

IffyG said:

I'm wondering the same thing. I was lucky enough to be in Philadelphia during Philly Beer week this year and had just about every cask beer I found and I was initially shocked by how little carbonation was in cask beer. Once you get past that, it's fantastic.

Click to expand...

That's the beauty of it, no carbonic bite, just good ole ingredients coming through.


_

wildwest450 said:

Was that the mango IPA at the Saucer? You do realize that cask beers are naturally carbonated at a very low level? Absolutely delicious btw.


_

Click to expand...

Actually, it was the porter at Blackstone Brewery. And I do realize what the carbonation level should be for their cask offerings. I have a pint of whatever is on cask there every time I go there. They normally have to pull the beer fairly slowly because even though, as you say, the carb level is low, it still develops a tall head. In fact they use a taller glass for it because of that. This time the beer had zero head and zero carbonation. As I said, flat as an FG sample from the secondary. I'm not hacked off because I got bad beer. It's because when I try to offer customer feedback I get lip service instead of real results. I am never, at least in these situations, looking for free beer, but that is what is almost always the response. I just would like it if they would consider the possibility that I have a valid complaint and check it out.

Airborneguy said:

I can easily drink a different brand/style of beer every day for the next ten years.

Click to expand...

Off topic, but no: that's an exaggeration.

Of course it is... slightly. Between the sheer amount of brands, the different offerings of each brand, coupled with the new beers that come out constantly nowadays, I can definitely say I don't ever have to drink the same beer twice.