Rye Saison Q: Brett or mixed?

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millsbrew

millsbrew

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I'm making my first sour next weekend and decided to go with a rye saison since I've made a ton of clean saisons (using WLP565) and feel most comfortable with that style. My plan is a week in primary with just the wlp565, then adding my souring bugs to primary for 3-4 weeks, before transferring and aging in secondary for a few months to a year. I want some "earthy" tones, but not "kick you in the teeth" horse blanket.

I have a WLP650 and will be making a small starter (since it's only going in for secondary). I want to add some dregs to get a more complex flavor profile. I also have a Saison Rue and Terreux from the Bruery, that I was going to add for more varieties of brett.

My question: Are there many saisons with bacteria too? I have a bottle of Love Child #5 that I'm debating about adding as well.

Any suggestions or input are welcome. Thanks in advance.
 
millsbrew said:
My question: Are there many saisons with bacteria too?
Click to expand...
many? i'm sitting on about 40 bottles of it... :D

there aren't many beers that are labeled as "sour saisons." my guess and opinion is that once you add bugs and brett, there is so much going on that you lose the saison character. you go from "a saison with sour bugs" to "a sour beer with saison used as the primary yeast". a lot of sours are made with saison yeast, but most brewers just called them "sour beer", "sour blond", etc.

i love using strong belgian sacchs as the primary yeast for my sours and saison yeast is right there in the mix. this past weekend i served my TYB Saison Brett Blend that was soured with LAB to two wine drinkers/non-beer-nerds, and they loved it. i've got several carboys aging in the basement, i would need to check my notes but at least a third of them have saison yeast.
 
millsbrew said:
I'm making my first sour next weekend and decided to go with a rye saison since I've made a ton of clean saisons (using WLP565) and feel most comfortable with that style. My plan is a week in primary with just the wlp565, then adding my souring bugs to primary for 3-4 weeks, before transferring and aging in secondary for a few months to a year. I want some "earthy" tones, but not "kick you in the teeth" horse blanket.

I have a WLP650 and will be making a small starter (since it's only going in for secondary). I want to add some dregs to get a more complex flavor profile. I also have a Saison Rue and Terreux from the Bruery, that I was going to add for more varieties of brett.

My question: Are there many saisons with bacteria too? I have a bottle of Love Child #5 that I'm debating about adding as well.

Any suggestions or input are welcome. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I think the Rue has just brett. Terreux isn't a specific beer it's the wild branch of the Bruery now. Most of their stuff has bacteria. Love Child definitely has bacteria. If you pitch dregs from stuff with bacteria you're likely to get quite a bit of tartness too, I can't tell if you're looking for that or not... you're saying brett and describing brett aromatics but also mentioning sours and calling the pitch 'souring bugs'.

I've had good experiences pitching just brett after primary fermentation is done, my favorite is ECY Dirty Dozen.
 
bovineblitz said:
I think the Rue has just brett. Terreux isn't a specific beer it's the wild branch of the Bruery now. Most of their stuff has bacteria. Love Child definitely has bacteria. If you pitch dregs from stuff with bacteria you're likely to get quite a bit of tartness too, I can't tell if you're looking for that or not... you're saying brett and describing brett aromatics but also mentioning sours and calling the pitch 'souring bugs'.

I've had good experiences pitching just brett after primary fermentation is done, my favorite is ECY Dirty Dozen.
Click to expand...

Maybe he meant Humulus Terreux, which is just brett no bugs.

To the OP, I'd say split it up and do both!

Clean ferment with saison yeast, then split and rack to 2 secondaries. Add just brett to one and add your LC5/sour dregs to the other.
 
Thanks guys for the responses guys. I'll try to answer them in order.

I want a dry, but not extremely tart saison.

I was indeed talking about Humulus. The idea of a split batch does interest me for my first attempt at sours. IBUs will be around 13 so I assume the bacteria could live in there. My only concern is more loss with 2 secondaries, means less in the bottles.

BGBC - I'm in South Orange, NJ and hit up Thirsty Quaker often. Are you part of the club there?

Any other tips on using brett vs brett & lacto are welcome as I continue to read/learn about sours.
 
Nice! I live within walking distance of Thirsty Quaker. I am a member of the JCBC, but I've been missing most meetings due to work travel. Shoot me a PM if you're in JC on a weekend and want to grab a pint though - I've got a couple brett/sour beers that I could share too!

IBUs won't be an issue for Brett, 13 IBUs might inhibit some lacto strains, but bottle dregs are typically hardier than commercial pitches, and pedio should be fine with the IBUs as well.

Not to complicate things, but another option I'll throw out there is to pitch lacto first, let it sour for 1-2 days, then pitch your saison yeast, then pitch your brett after a couple weeks as you originally planned. Sort of a modified kettle sour - if you're cool with lacto in your equipment, no real need to pasteurize after the initial souring.
 

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