question for BCS-460 or brewtroller users

Do either of these devices or other similar devices have inputs for pressure sensors? I'm in the process of designing a e-RIMS and I think sensors to tell me how much liquid is in the kettles would rock. Not really necessary though... thoughts?

a brewtroller would have spare inputs that you could use for a pressure sensor. Its similar to what i'm looking at for my electric system.

haven't looked at the bcs much, although it does look like a well put together system

Embedded Control Concepts has a really great forum that has helped me tremendously. Check out this thread, you just may be in luck.

To my knowlege the BCS-460 does not support pressure sensors yet. The Brewtroller has from the beginning. When using the MX sensors it is recommended that you use a bubbler system. Go to the brewtroller site and you can do a lot of reading on the subject.

Cool stuff guys... I think I'm leaning towards the BCS. Anyone have it running through WiFi somehow?

Brewing Clamper said:

Cool stuff guys... I think I'm leaning towards the BCS. Anyone have it running through WiFi somehow?

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I thought you wanted pressure sensor support? The BCS does not support that yet. The brewtroller will have WiFi soon.

Yeah, I clearly had some misconceptions here. I've been reading some threads here and elsewhere and I see that Brewtroller is a better solution to what I want. I was under the impression that BT could only interface with that 24x4 LCD screen, but it seems you can use a computer as well. I'd rather have that. Especially that you say WiFi is coming, that would be the big deal. I could have the whole thing sealed up in a panel. Thanks for your help guys...

I had a reply 6-7 months ago by Adam on the BCS forum, Adam stated there were no plans of integrating a pressure sensor feature to measure vessel volume.
I asked about this plus a way of reading a paddle wheel with 4-20 mA output for measuring flow amounts. Reply, "will look into it", AKA dead topic IMO.
Another HBT member replied "I'd be all over it" in response to having the volume plus flow feature added to the BCS.
This is the reason why I have not purchased the BCS 462 unit, $345 without them is another. I sold a NIB 460. I bet there are other buyers turned off because of this with looking into purchasing a BT instead, myself included. More lost sales sales for BCS and growing how I see it. Yes I like the BCS system but damn wake up and give us what we want. End of rant.

BrewBeemer said:

I had a reply 6-7 months ago by Adam on the BCS forum, Adam stated there were no plans of integrating a pressure sensor feature to measure vessel volume.
I asked about this plus a way of reading a paddle wheel with 4-20 mA output for measuring flow amounts. Reply, "will look into it", AKA dead topic IMO.
Another HBT member replied "I'd be all over it" in response to having the volume plus flow feature added to the BCS.
This is the reason why I have not purchased the BCS 462 unit, $345 without them is another. I sold a NIB 460. I bet there are other buyers turned off because of this with looking into purchasing a BT instead, myself included. More lost sales sales for BCS and growing how I see it. Yes I like the BCS system but damn wake up and give us what we want. End of rant.

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Kind of a negative dissertation on a product you owned and never put into service. If enough people showed real interest in an add on, pretty sure Adam would go for it. I'd not hesitate in recommending his product, company or his guarantee to refund money to an unhappy camper.

samc said:

I'd not hesitate in recommending his product, company or his guarantee to refund money to an unhappy camper.

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Adam's guarantee is limited to 30 days maximum as another 460 owner found out wanting to upgrade to a 462 unit himself. Adam mentioned "use it for the fermenter", this would add another $345 on top of the $187 spent both before adding shipping.
Gets rather pricey with add ons.
I'm not being negative just stating the facts what was replied to me about future added features. There must not be enough intrest or pressure on Adam's part beyond "looking into it". Yes I would like to own a 462 unit just not at this time should the above features be added at a later date yes i'd jump on it.
For the amount of controls required I ran out of them with the 460 with the 462 have double the amount of controlling features it would work.
Time will tell as Adam stated himself going against another automated system they both keep adding upgrades, the winner overall is the consumer.

BrewBeemer, ECC offers the Digi 16, for $34 which provides 16 additional inputs to the BCS 460.

Also, exactly how much is the Deltapilot M FMB50?

Here is a wet pressure sensor that can be mounted below the kettle for level measurement with a voltage output. http://www.meas-spec.com/pressure-sensors/pressure-transducers-and-pressure-transmitters/liquid-level-pressure-transducers.aspx, here is a source http://www.newark.com/measurement-specialties/lm31-00000f-001pg/pressure-sensor/dp/96H0150. I do not understand the difficulty in incorporating level measurement in the popular platforms, a 0-5vdc output will work with most every platform out there. It was not hard for a dummy like me to program for in both Java and .Net, just had to research some formulas for temperature and SG correction to correct sensor readings across operating temperature range.

kladue said:

Here is a wet pressure sensor that can be mounted below the kettle for level measurement with a voltage output. http://www.meas-spec.com/pressure-sensors/pressure-transducers-and-pressure-transmitters/liquid-level-pressure-transducers.aspx, here is a source http://www.newark.com/measurement-specialties/lm31-00000f-001pg/pressure-sensor/dp/96H0150. I do not understand the difficulty in incorporating level measurement in the popular platforms, a 0-5vdc output will work with most every platform out there. It was not hard for a dummy like me to program for in both Java and .Net, just had to research some formulas for temperature and SG correction to correct sensor readings across operating temperature range.

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Very cool kladue, placed in my files. Any idea of cost?
They sure have a large selection of pressure sensors to go thru plus the best paet the only North American distributor is only 19 miles south of me.
If there is no demand or little demand the masses will win out as product producers like BCS will just bang out their already designed units and do what they want called make money.
If enough people asked for added features maybe they will add them, so far it's a no on the ECC forum.

Remember those SS Lang Flowstat units another HBT member offered to us some 18 months ago?
I have two of them having a 0-5 (0-20?)mA output.
Add your pressure sensors with the Flowstats on stand alone screens plus a BCS 462 then I can have all these features i'm looking for.

Why BSC hasn't incorporated any level measuring as well able to read 0-5 (0-20?)mA flowmeter output into Java or .Net, good question? Added features would mean more $$$$$$ to them in increased sales is my thinking or get passed up by another controlling system that will have these added features.

Chefkeith said:

BrewBeemer, ECC offers the Digi 16, for $34 which provides 16 additional inputs to the BCS 460.

On the BCS forum I read that the 460 can not do multiple functions at the same time vs the 462 can, I also looked into the cost of adding a couple Digi 16 boards with additional power supplies. It came up as not cost effective, many seperate units not mounted in a box vs a 462 unit that can handle it all.

Also, exactly how much is the Deltapilot M FMB50?

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Not a clue of the price;http://www.ashdale.co.uk/items/products/instrumentation/level/hydrostatic/pdf/fmb50.pdf.pdf

When I saw the "UK" in their address I stopped dead, I already own a 95 landRover Dsco 5-speed with a now 5.2 liter that I totally rebuild bumper to bumper making it right from being built by "Limey's" say no more.

Kladue, the LM31 is only good to 85ºC.

Also, isn't the BSC 460 just an HTML interface? Why don't you just program it in HTML or Java Script and flash it as a firmware update? I've seen others modify the BCS 460. It's pretty easy from what I understand.

BrewBeemer - you were over on the BCS forum raising a stink last week about not adding support for pressure and level sensors and now this week you're doing it over here. Seriously, who's pissing in your Cheerios? I can actually count on one hand how many requests I've seen for these features. How much do you think it costs to modify the hardware and software to support this?

I'm actually the person you are quoting saying "I'd be all over it" for the level sensors - and I would be - but that still didn't stop me from implementing a BCS-462 with 8 temp probes controlling 6 SS ball valves, 3 pumps, 3 solenoid gas valves and 3 refrigerators.

There's a difference between asking for features and whining/complaining about them - of which you are doing the latter.

Chefkeith said:

Kladue, the LM31 is only good to 85ºC.

Also, isn't the BSC 460 just an HTML interface? Why don't you just program it in HTML or Java Script and flash it as a firmware update? I've seen others modify the BCS 460. It's pretty easy from what I understand.

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Yes, it's an HTML interface, but there's a lot of embedded code in the unit that is not user customizable.

However, there is a complete API for the system that allows you to create your own front-end in any language/platform that you wish.

JonW said:

Yes, it's an HTML interface, but there's a lot of embedded code in the unit that is not user customizable.

However, there is a complete API for the system that allows you to create your own front-end in any language/platform that you wish.

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Got it.

The LM pressure sensor needs to be remote mounted, preferably below the container to isolate it from the hot water or wort. The software will have to scale and provide means of entering an offset to cancel mounting elevation head pressure like I do in the software for the PLC controlled system that I run on a touch screen pc.

kladue said:

The LM pressure sensor needs to be remote mounted, preferably below the container to isolate it from the hot water or wort. The software will have to scale and provide means of entering an offset to cancel mounting elevation head pressure like I do in the software for the PLC controlled system that I run on a touch screen pc.

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I was already thinking a length of 1/2" SS tubing 8 to 10" long, sprial wrap and solder #12 solid copper as the cooler isolating the sensor mounted on a Tee for quick flushing of the line and sensor.
If it could also be incorporated to control sparge level as pump control this would be another plus with being calibrated for liquid volumes.
With the large selection of sensors having higher temp ratings it's well worth giving them a call and mention the application for advice, thanks kladue your spending my money again.

kladue said:

.here is a source http://www.newark.com/measurement-specialties/lm31-00000f-001pg/pressure-sensor/dp/96H0150.

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>$120!! Woah, that's a lot! I'm not sure I'm ready to spend that on just a sensor. Are there any alternatives?

Brewing Clamper said:

>$120!! Woah, that's a lot! I'm not sure I'm ready to spend that on just a sensor. Are there any alternatives?

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Yeah, that was my thought. The cost of 3 sensors is how much a complete automation system is!

While knowing exact volume amounts would be very cool, I don't see the cost/benefit ratio being attractive enough to bring a lot of people to the table to do this.

I personally will probably just setup some adjustable float switches for doing things like stopping my HLT to MLT pump during fly sparging when the HLT is running dry or stopping the entire sparge process once my collected wort volume has been reached in the BK.

I think I have to agree with Jon W. It would be a bad business decision at this point to invest all the time and effort into something that very few people are interested in.

Not to say that it's not a cool idea; just have to see the big picture based on actual data rather than anecdotal evidence.

A poll may be in order?

Brewing Clamper said:

>$120!! Woah, that's a lot! I'm not sure I'm ready to spend that on just a sensor. Are there any alternatives?

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It balances out is my thinking, look what you have gained in added features.
With using converted kegs I also think "Woah that's a lot!" myself when I see a full brewery of 100% Blichmann kettles and pots, the money spent is way beyond my keggles with these sensors by far. Some people drive Fords some their chebbies.

You can do like I have, patiently watch "pressure transmitters/pressure sensors" on Ebay for a device with a range of 0-1Psi (0-27"Water), I have purchased them for $10-$15 each. I use 2 for the automated system to measure strike water in mash tun, mash tun level before sparge, and boil kettle level. This lets one add strike water based on recipe, maintain MLT level during sparge, and end sparge when sparge volume is in boil kettle. The formulas and control scheme I have created takes the "oops" factor out of water management from strike to boil, and is relatively easy to do in code if you spend the time.
There is a honeywell wet sensor that could be adapted but if you are not mechanically and electronically inclined it would be safer to buy an off the shelf sensor or use a dry sensor and a bubble tube.

kladue said:

You can do like I have, patiently watch "pressure transmitters/pressure sensors" on Ebay for a device with a range of 0-1Psi (0-27"Water), I have purchased them for $10-$15 each.

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Thanks kladue, this is looking better and cheaper with the Ebay option.
I can deal with stand alone monitoring LCD readout vs shot in the dark guessing. I can have what I want that a controlled brewing system lacks at this time due to the so called lack of intrest.
You would think newly built brewing rig owners would like these added features?

In the past i've looked into automotive sensors i'm wanting to stay away from those cheap low temp plastic sensors.