Yeast Slant

[redrocker652002]

OK, so in reading posts regarding saving and reusing yeast I have happened upon the sticky thread of yeast slants. I was talking to BBeerme when I picked up all the stuff he gave me and he was saying he did it quite often and was very successful. Having no experience, and not having much luck with liquid yeast, I was thinking of giving this a try. My initial question is, I don't have a pressure cooker, but have an instapot. According to my wife, who does all the cooking, these two things are not the same and cannot be used interchangeably in some cases. My initial thought was going the Mason jar way, but after doing some reading, seems the slants are a bit better because they keep longer, take up less room and seem to be much better when ready to use. I do understand that there is a bit more work involved, so that is another consideration. But retirement looms in a couple of years so time might be "on my side" as Mick Jagger once wrote. LOL. Anyway, looking for feedback on the process and the relative pluses and minuses of doing it. Thanks for any and all input. Rock On!!!!!!!!

 

[hotbeer]

With the variety of dry yeast for beer out there and it's price, shelf life and other forgiving things, I only use dry yeast.

If the things about saving, storing and using yeast again and again are part of the fun for you, then I can understand that. I'm just letting you know you don't have to go to all the trouble just to get decent beer. Unless of course it's because you like doing that stuff.

 

[shoengine]

Slants are really handy if you have a house strain. Feasibly if you have more time than money they can save you a bit too.

 

[mac_1103]

If you really want to do slants then you probably should invest in a pressure cooker. You can sterilize the vials and agar by boiling, but I suspect that you'd probably find the whole process easier with a home autoclave, which is what a pressure cooker actually is.

 

[BBeerme]

Just to be clear, I never re-used yeast, or tried to collect the spent dregs after a ferment, too much chance of contamination or possible "mutation". I always "inoculated" the slants only with new liquid yeast. And the financial payback can be incredibly quick. Liquid yeast is probably more available now and likely less expensive than it was 20+ years ago. Back then the cheapest liquid yeast was probably $15, and 20 to $25 was quite common.

So if you inoculate 5-6 slants with a couple of different strains (10-12 tubes total), you just saved yourself a couple of hundred bucks. And it's fun to have a variety of yeasts sitting around, they easily last up to 5 yrs and longer.

Along with the slants, you do also need the sterilized mason jars to get the starter going a couple of days before brew day. The sterilized mason jars also last years, just waiting for the day you'll use them. If you make a regular favorite all of the time, you can save some of that wort in the sterilized jars. Or just keep a light raw wort around (prepped in the mason jars); a couple of cups of the starter from a light beer will never be noticeable in another 5 gallon batch of beer. I got so I kept a light and a dark around, Then another couple for my fav's. Total jars sitting around waiting for use was in the neighborhood of 6-12.

So there is prep work, but that "work" can be done anytime, not taking time away from brew day. And the starters will give a more rapid start to your fresh newly made batch of beer. So it's a win, win, win situation. Big money saver, convenience of having multiple strains at the ready, and faster start of getting the initial ferment going.

Had a taker for 15 of the 31 slant tubes I'm giving away, and if you don't want the metal tube holder, that greatly reduces the cost of shipping due to less weight!

 

[mac_1103]

If you make a regular favorite all of the time, you can save some of that wort in the sterilized jars. Or just keep a light raw wort around (prepped in the mason jars);

Since wort is acidic, do you pressure can or anything like that for long-term storage?

 

[BBeerme]

Since wort is acidic, do you pressure can or anything like that for long-term storage?

I don't know what the term "pressure can" means. I just take fresh wort straight from the cooled boil and prep in mason jars the same as you would for a fresh vegetable, in a pressure cooker.

 

[Deadalus]

Pressure canning is putting the mason jars in a pressure canner and processing, which sounds like what you are doing. As opposed to water bath canning where no pressure is used, which appears to be @mac_1103 's question since acidity is mentioned. @mac_1103 I don't think wort is acidic enough to water bath can, pH for water bath canning is 4.6 or lower.

 

[mac_1103]

I don't think wort is acidic enough to water bath can, pH for water bath canning is 4.6 or lower.

Thanks. That's what I was trying to get at, but I sort of got the question a little bit backwards.

 

[beren]

There's a far easier way to store yeast long term: in the freezer. I follow Maintaining A Healthy Yeast Bank Long Term and it's great. Get a pack of yeast, make a 1l starter and split it into 10 vials. If you want to use the yeast in your next batch make a 2l starter and when everything is in suspension on the stir plate pour off 1l and decant both. 1l for splitting, 1l for wort. I keep the vials on the hump of my chest freezer and use borosilicate vials so i can reuse them, for slightly less money you can get plastic. don't reuse but they won't break. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085FSMWQY

 

[BBeerme]

There's a far easier way to store yeast long term: in the freezer. I follow Maintaining A Healthy Yeast Bank Long Term and it's great. Get a pack of yeast, make a 1l starter and split it into 10 vials. If you want to use the yeast in your next batch make a 2l starter and when everything is in suspension on the stir plate pour off 1l and decant both. 1l for splitting, 1l for wort. I keep the vials on the hump of my chest freezer and use borosilicate vials so i can reuse them, for slightly less money you can get plastic. don't reuse but they won't break. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085FSMWQY

That's very interesting, I've never heard of storing yeast that way (or any way) in a freezer. I guess the only real down side is you need the freezer space.

 

[Geezer-Glide]

The Instant Pot is a pressure cooker. It is not consider safe for canning food as it will not hold 15 lbs of pressure. I used our IP for sterilizing slants and mason jars and canned wort with no “unexpected results” for some time. I believe there is a newer IP that will hold 15 lbs of pressure but I am not sure about that.

Ultimately I bought a larger pressure cooker as I could only fit pint jars in the IP and wanted to can quarts occasionall.

 

[beren]

The Instant Pot is a pressure cooker. It is not consider safe for canning food as it will not hold 15 lbs of pressure. I used our IP for sterilizing slants and mason jars and canned wort with no “unexpected results” for some time. I believe there is a newer IP that will hold 15 lbs of pressure but I am not sure about that.

Ultimately I bought a larger pressure cooker as I could only fit pint jars in the IP and wanted to can quarts occasionall.

To be fair, it’s all a sliding scale. You can cook at a lower temp for longer you might only get 99.999% reduction not 99.99999 but it probably doesn’t matter in reality.

 

[beren]

That's very interesting, I've never heard of storing yeast that way (or any way) in a freezer. I guess the only real down side is you need the freezer space.

10x30ml vials take up about 3” round and 5” tall space in the freezer.

 

[BBeerme]

10x30ml vials take up about 3” round and 5” tall space in the freezer.

Freezer space in my house is a commodity. And the last thing I want is anybody else messing with my yeast!

 

[user 341102]

Late to the discussion, here. I’m trying to collect some wild yeast for a solera. I snagged some organic raspberries and a persimmon this morning and just added some hopped wort to grow the wild yeast (I use crushed grains for the sour starter because extra work is fun). Anyone try using gelatin instead of agar for slants? What about using hopped media to keep the bacteria at bay?

 

[Geezer-Glide]

I haven’t used Geletin only agar for slants. The whole slant/Petrie dish process is (IMO) a PITA. For the last year or so I’ve been using frozen yeast in test tubes. After reading an excellent article (by Pete Geisen I believe) I started following his method and I’m not going back. Slants are much more labor intensive. Even if freezer space is a consideration you can put a lot of test tubes in a very small area.The slant/Petrie dish system takes a fair amount of space in a fridge and in my experience they are not as stable over the long haul as the frozen test tubes. It also has the benefit of going from storage to 1L of inoculated wort ready to pitch in a much shorter time.

 

[user 341102]

I haven’t used Geletin only agar for slants. The whole slant/Petrie dish process is (IMO) a PITA. For the last year or so I’ve been using frozen yeast in test tubes. After reading an excellent article (by Pete Geisen I believe) I started following his method and I’m not going back. Slants are much more labor intensive. Even if freezer space is a consideration you can put a lot of test tubes in a very small area.The slant/Petrie dish system takes a fair amount of space in a fridge and in my experience they are not as stable over the long haul as the frozen test tubes. It also has the benefit of going from storage to 1L of inoculated wort ready to pitch in a much shorter time.

Agreed. I make frozen tubes of all clean yeasts I buy after the first brew. My interest in slants is for capturing and selecting wild yeast. I’d like to select a couple different strains and see what they do independently before inoculating a solera. I’ve made plenty of dishes to grow bacteria and isolate plasmids in a wet lab (albeit years ago), so I’m quite familiar with the process. I did happen across this article describing gelatin for slants which I’ll loosely follow:

http://www.brewery.org/library/YstCult.html
The whole thing may be an exercise in futility, though. I’d likely only culture the wild yeast for a few weeks before slanting whereas a solera ages for months-years. The flavor profile may change a lot over this time. But, slanting would at least allow me to visually inspect the colonies to ensure they look like yeast and not something with a strange color or texture

 

[Geezer-Glide]

In the past I used my slants more for long term storage. I would inoculate the agar on my Petri dish from the slant and grow my working cultures in the PD where I could easily see any infection. It worked fairly well but the frozen tube is better for me.

 

[redrocker652002]

This is very interesting stuff. I just got about 15 to 20 frozen tubes of various yeasts and might give it a try when I use them. Kinda cool to reuse and not have to buy new yeast every time. Gonna do a bit of research on this.

 

[beren]

I have at least a dozen strains in my freezer anywhere from 5 to 10 vials each. It’s great.

 

[redrocker652002]

I have at least a dozen strains in my freezer anywhere from 5 to 10 vials each. It’s great.

I might have to hit you up for info when I get to that point. LOL.

 

[beren]

It’s not hard. Get some 15ml vials, I prefer glass so you can reuse.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/maintaining-a-healthy-yeast-bank-long-term.678997/

 

[user 341102]

I might have to hit you up for info when I get to that point. LOL.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/freezing-yeast.678455/
Here's a great (and simple) procedure for freezing yeast

 

[Geezer-Glide]

You can put the vials in a fairly compact area. I use two different containers. The HF ammo box is not a good size for my 30ml tubes. I built the holder for a different box and there was a lot of wasted space. I found that an inexpensive (read free) styrofoam chest will hold ~ 60 of the tubes I use. Admittedly very inelegant but cheap and much easier to make than the HF box. Two out of three is good enough for me.

 

[jtgoral]

I use 15ml sterile vials for yeast frozen in water with glycerin. 2 years old are still good to make a starter.

 

[beren]

You can put the vials in a fairly compact area. I use two different containers. The HF ammo box is not a good size for my 30ml tubes. I built the holder for a different box and there was a lot of wasted space. I found that an inexpensive (read free) styrofoam chest will hold ~ 60 of the tubes I use. Admittedly very inelegant but cheap and much easier to make than the HF box. Two out of three is good enough for me.

120 vials are a lot of space in a full freezer

 

[milw]

120 vials are a lot of space in a full freezer

Is it better to have a non-frostfree -20 for this, rather than the kitchen freezer?

 

[beren]

It would. I have mine on the hump of a chest freezer under the basket to protect. You could also surround it by ice packs to help keep the temperature stable

 

[Geezer-Glide]

If freezer space is really tight you can limit the number of duplicates you have of each yeast. As in, do I really need 10 vials of EC-1118? As long as you have one vial you can always propagate more. I freeze ~ 10 at a time as that is what works for me. It would be easy to just keep ~30 mL from the bottom of your starter flask mix it with sterile glycerin/water and back to the freezer. Next time you use that yeast propagate one or two more.

 

[mac_1103]

Is it better to have a non-frostfree -20 for this, rather than the kitchen freezer?

Ideally yes, but a styrofoam box works well to keep the temperature of your yeast bank from fluctuating with defrost cycles.

 

[beren]

If freezer space is really tight you can limit the number of duplicates you have of each yeast. As in, do I really need 10 vials of EC-1118? As long as you have one vial you can always propagate more. I freeze ~ 10 at a time as that is what works for me. It would be easy to just keep ~30 mL from the bottom of your starter flask mix it with sterile glycerin/water and back to the freezer. Next time you use that yeast propagate one or two more.

Easy, maybe. You have to sterilize your vials, sanitize your pipette, decanted as much as possible, etc. I like to do 30 viles at once. I also let them settle for weeks or more to get every yeast cell

 

[user 341102]

Easy, maybe. You have to sterilize your vials, sanitize your pipette, decanted as much as possible, etc. I like to do 30 viles at once. I also let them settle for weeks or more to get every yeast cell

Yeah, none of us are here because homebrewing is easy. It’s far easier to pick up some craft beer off the shelf!

 

[beren]

Yeah, none of us are here because homebrewing is easy. It’s far easier to pick up some craft beer off the shelf!

Depends on what your day job is to earn those deflated dollars!