Lagers and pilsners

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oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer

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Seems to be all I know this fall. Weather has been perfect for swamp cooling and using Brulosiphers Lager method. Got my mash at 152 at eight fifteen this morning. Making some of the best beers I have brewed so far. Turning them in three weeks with a 10 day wait for carbing. Clear and dry very refreshing. Thanks for all the help hbt.
 
oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer said:
Seems to be all I know this fall. Weather has been perfect for swamp cooling and using Brulosiphers Lager method. Got my mash at 152 at eight fifteen this morning. Making some of the best beers I have brewed so far. Turning them in three weeks with a 10 day wait for carbing. Clear and dry very refreshing. Thanks for all the help hbt.
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I was going to make a pilsner today, but decided to get an early start on work instead. Next weekend I'll brew.

Your schedule sounds very similar to mine. What are you using for malt/hops/yeast in your pilsner?
 
I've been doing a lot of lagers and German hybrids this year. I have a German Pils that will be going on tap next weekend and a Dunkel in the fermenter.
 
Me too.

Got the lager/hybrid bug bad.

Seems to be all I'm making. Although I did pick up 5lbs of hops recently so am going to do some sore of IPA soon to break the cycle. Generally lagers are into the keg for carbonating and lagering at 2 weeks. Then just wait till it's clear. Pipelines pretty solid so waiting is easy and worth it.

Got my first pils lagering now. A German Pilsner with Hallertauer and a little Sazz. (Not typical of the style but I'd runout of Halletauer for late additions)

I've used WLP833 on all 5 lagers I've made so far. I probably should mix it up a bit. That 1 vial doesn't owe me anything at this stage.

Some lager/hybrid beerporn.

2 Beer Montage.jpg
 
Mostly German Pilsner and a lot of Hallertauer some Perle and some Saaz. Using 2124 and some 2042 and a little SF23. All pretty simple but they are tasting real good.
 
Lovin' lagers these days as well. I've got a Vienna cold crashing right now, soon to be transferred and carbed. [emoji39]
 
Here's one called Worsthinney

8 lb German Pilsner
1 lb Munich
1lb Marris
1 oz Perle 60
1 oz Hallertau 15
1 tsp Irish moss 15
1 oz Sazz 5
2124 Bohieman Lager with starter or slurry
Mash 152 90 min
Boil 90 min
1055 1012
Ferment 7 days at 52
7 days at 65
7days 34
Prime and bottle
I been drinking them at 7 to 10 days and enjoying them a lot.
 
joshesmusica said:
I'm really thinking of doing some kind of lager in the next month or so. Anybody know of some of the better recipes on here?
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The one I posted is some of the best I ever brewed. It might be nasty to you but we started drinking the first batch at three days. It was flat as heck but we couldn't keep out of it.
 
passedpawn said:
Lagers run the gamut, from pilsner to stout. What where you thinking about?
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I don't know. The only ones that made the top 100 list were an oktoberfest, and a hybrid oktoberfest (which I actually made the brulosopher one for october this year).

Just wondering what some of the more popular recipes for the broader lager style was. But I didn't know a stout was considered a lager. That's interesting. Probably something lighter, obviously more malt forward, could be yellow-pale-amber/orange in color. Can ferment at lager temps, and also, can lager for some time.
 
What ale styles do you like? Lagers go from flavored water to rich and dark.

My personal favorites, currently, are Pilsners and Marzen. Both are very simple to make.
 
joshesmusica said:
...Probably something lighter, obviously more malt forward, could be yellow-pale-amber/orange in color. Can ferment at lager temps, and also, can lager for some time.
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I really enjoyed this one. I made it per recipe and instructions. Easy drinking, refreshing, plenty of malt. Everything a German Helles lager promises. I'm going to make it again after the new year.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=238906

I'm also going to to the Cat's T*ts Pilsner too. I like the look of that recipe.
 
schematix said:
What ale styles do you like? Lagers run the gamut from flavored water to rich and dark.

My personal favorites, currently, are Pilsners and Marzen. Both are very simple to make.
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Blondes, pale ales, esbs, some IPAs that are a little more focused on flavor/aroma than bitterness (black, red, white, doesn't matter), porters, stouts, wheats (american, german, and belgian), english browns, american browns, ambers, sours, strong belgian (though I'm not really into the more ester/phenol focused of the belgian strains, like Tank 7), got a pumpkin ale in my glass as I type. haha

Point being I like most styles. I just haven't tried many different lager styles. Obviously I've tried the cheap stuff, and as I said I brewed a Marzen, and I liked that a lot. I will say I like a pilsner over a typical cheap lager (like carlsberg, for instance). So I would say something more malt-forward.
 
joshesmusica said:
I don't know. The only ones that made the top 100 list were an oktoberfest, and a hybrid oktoberfest (which I actually made the brulosopher one for october this year).

Just wondering what some of the more popular recipes for the broader lager style was. But I didn't know a stout was considered a lager. That's interesting. Probably something lighter, obviously more malt forward, could be yellow-pale-amber/orange in color. Can ferment at lager temps, and also, can lager for some time.
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German pilsners, octoberfest, rauchbier, dunkel. All sorts. Most stouts are made with ale yeast, but there are examples that aren't. Same with porters.

My suggestion is start with an octoberfest. Keep the OG down.
 
passedpawn said:
German pilsners, octoberfest, rauchbier, dunkel. All sorts. Most stouts are made with ale yeast, but there are examples that aren't. Same with porters.

My suggestion is start with an octoberfest. Keep the OG down.
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I recently brewed this oktoberfest/marzen:

Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l
Bottling Volume: 24.17 l
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 23.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.00 kg Vienna (BestMalz) (8.0 EBC) Grain 1 47.3 %
1.70 kg Pilsen (BestMalz) (3.0 EBC) Grain 2 20.1 %
1.50 kg Munich Dark (BestMalz) (25.0 EBC) Grain 3 17.8 %
0.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 4 5.9 %
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (120.0 EBC) Grain 5 3.6 %
0.30 kg Melanoidin (BestMalz) (70.0 EBC) Grain 6 3.6 %
0.15 kg Acidulated (BestMalz) (3.0 EBC) Grain 7 1.8 %
75.00 g Saaz [2.88 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 8 15.0 IBUs
10.00 g Pacific Gem [13.90 %] - First Wort 90.0 Hop 9 9.7 IBUs
25.00 g Saaz [2.88 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 2.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) [ Yeast 11 -


Maybe I should just try that one again but go with a lager yeast?
 
passedpawn said:
My suggestion is start with an octoberfest. Keep the OG down.
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^^^This is some of the best lager recipe advice there is. 1.045-1.055 is really the sweet spot for lagers. Doppelbock is one of the few exceptions. A few styles are a little more than this, but for home brewers this is a really good range to be in.

Sounds like you'd probably like:
1. Pilsner
2. Vienna Lager
3. Octoberfest/Marzen
4. Bock
5. An oddball suggestion - India Pale Lager.
 
schematix said:
^^^This is some of the best lager recipe advice there is. 1.045-1.055 is really the sweet spot for lagers. Doppelbock is one of the few exceptions. A few styles are a little more than this, but for home brewers this is a really good range to be in.

Sounds like you'd probably like:
1. Pilsner
2. Vienna Lager
3. Octoberfest/Marzen
4. Bock
5. An oddball suggestion - India Pale Lager.
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I was thinking possibly the Vienna route. Is it simply all vienna malt for the malt bill?
 
This was my last Marzen recipe and it's very good, although I wouldn't enter it into a competition because I think it is slightly out of style.

1.055G for 11G

9.5 lb Pilsner 2 °L
9.0 lb Dark Munich 9 °L
1.5 lb CaraMunich II 45 °L
4.0 oz Special B 147 °L

3.0 oz Hallertau (DE) 60 min Boil Pellet 3.5%
1.0 oz Tettnanger (DE) 30 min Boil Pellet 4.9%
2.0 oz Saaz (CZ) 15 min Boil Pellet 3.6%
 
joshesmusica said:
I was thinking possibly the Vienna route. Is it simply all vienna malt for the malt bill?
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You could do 100% vienna. Might even be worthwhile to make yourself a SMaSH vienna to learn the grain and hops. Lagers are actually great SMaSH beers.

I'd probably do something like

45% Pilsner
45% Vienna
5% Dark Munich
5% Cara-something

Aim for 1.050 and IBUs to about 20-25.
 
I love lagers too. That's usually what I make. Helles, Ambers and dark lagers. I should be floating an Oktoberfest soon and a delicious dark lager on tap next. Sometimes I'll make a Kolsch, but it's been awhile. I have a bunch of Perle left, I should brew one up. I think I have a couple kegs of Helles Lagering. Time to make more!!!!
 
joshesmusica said:
I recently brewed this oktoberfest/marzen:

Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l
Bottling Volume: 24.17 l
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 23.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.00 kg Vienna (BestMalz) (8.0 EBC) Grain 1 47.3 %
1.70 kg Pilsen (BestMalz) (3.0 EBC) Grain 2 20.1 %
1.50 kg Munich Dark (BestMalz) (25.0 EBC) Grain 3 17.8 %
0.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 4 5.9 %
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (120.0 EBC) Grain 5 3.6 %
0.30 kg Melanoidin (BestMalz) (70.0 EBC) Grain 6 3.6 %
0.15 kg Acidulated (BestMalz) (3.0 EBC) Grain 7 1.8 %
75.00 g Saaz [2.88 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 8 15.0 IBUs
10.00 g Pacific Gem [13.90 %] - First Wort 90.0 Hop 9 9.7 IBUs
25.00 g Saaz [2.88 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 2.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) [ Yeast 11 -


Maybe I should just try that one again but go with a lager yeast?
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Yes, I would suggest a lager yeast. And, simplify the recipe. You really only need one noble hop. Probably a 60m and a 20m addition. Hallertau or willamette or EKG would be great.

Also, probably 3 malts could make this recipe. I'd do it with pilsner malt and some C40. And, some light munich. I've made lots of ocfest. Pale malt would be fine too.

I'm doing this from memory, so refer to better sources. Just don't do the homebrewer thing and turn it into an imperial. All lagers are awesome OG=1.050 once they've carbed properly.
 
passedpawn said:
Just don't do the homebrewer thing and turn it into an imperial.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, awesome quote right there.

The thing with the hops was simply because I needed a little more to boost the IBUs, and I had the pacific gem as a high AA at the time.

I got the malt bill from brulosopher, only because I've never even tasted one before, and I trusted his experience. But I substituted the honey for melanoidin before I realized it's not a perfect substitute at all (I think possibly from you in a different thread? It was a picture of all your grain bins if I recall correctly).

I'll definitely take your advice. My brew partner is from Germany, but I don't think he's really tried too many different types of german lagers. I've been the one teaching him about styles as we go.
 
I prefer Vienna lager to Oktoberfest for day to day. I do like a fest beer now and then but they are higher in ABV. A Vienna offers a lot that a Marzen will offer but is a lighter beer, little to no crystal malt. Very guzzelable.

In lagers you can get a lot of different results with 3 base malts

Pils
Munich
Vienna

I always need some acid malt for pH adjustment and sometimes need a dehusked roast malt like a Carafa for color adjustment in certain styles. Both needed in very small quantities.

Lagers are very simple recipes. Process can vary widely though. It's fun to experiment with mash profiles.

This is my current Vienna's grain bill. Probably will delete the Munich next time upping the Vienna. I don't think it's doing anything for the beer. Point being, after creating the recipe edit it and edit it some more.

Screen Shot 2015-11-29 at 6.45.06 PM.pngOG and FG.jpg

@joshesmusica

If your looking for a simple light lager, I'm biased but I think my Munich Helles is pretty good.
 
passedpawn said:
Just don't do the homebrewer thing and turn it into an imperial.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly guilty of doing the homebrewer thing, but I have not brewed many lagers. What happens to lagers at higher ABV that is different than ales?
 
Singletrack said:
I'm certainly guilty of doing the homebrewer thing, but I have not brewed many lagers. What happens to lagers at higher ABV that is different than ales?
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IMO lagers should be crisp and sessionable. That's not happening at a FG over 1.010-ish.

Ale yeasts produce sweet flavors and aromas that don't make crisp beers.

Lager yeasts don't create these flavors and aromas when fermented at 50F. Ale yeasts won't ferment at those temps.
 
Lagers are awesome. I think lagers offer a lot of room to experiment with multi-step mashes and decoction techniques. That's how traditional Pilsners are able to achieve such excellent body and head retention without the use of adjunct.

I have to (partially) disagree with some of the previous posts on keeping your OG low. While I think "bigger is better" is not compatible with lagers, you can still achieve the same attenuation as an ale with a higher OG, provided you pitch a healthy yeast starter. Just brewed a 1.085 OG doppelbock today for the colder months ahead.

There's a brewery near me that specializes in lagers (Jack's Abby), a bunch of which clock in over 8% ABV. And they are AWESOME.
 
specharka said:
I have to (partially) disagree with some of the previous posts on keeping your OG low. While I think "bigger is better" is not compatible with lagers, you can still achieve the same attenuation as an ale with a higher OG, provided you pitch a healthy yeast starter. Just brewed a 1.085 OG doppelbock today for the colder months ahead.
Click to expand...

OG of 1.085 makes sense for a doppelbock, but a doppelbock is about the biggest lager style there is. I've never met a DB that was easy drinking and sessionable (i did try though!). It is a good style but it's certainly one of the most extreme examples in the lager family.

So for someone who hasn't done many lagers, the advice is to aim for a modest gravity beer. If you want to make a DB or some other huge lager, make yourself a batch of a modest lager, then when you make the DB pitch on the entire cake. Otherwise good luck pitching enough yeast.
 
schematix said:
OG of 1.085 makes sense for a doppelbock, but a doppelbock is about the biggest lager style there is. I've never met a DB that was easy drinking and sessionable (i did try though!). It is a good style but it's certainly one of the most extreme examples in the lager family.



So for someone who hasn't done many lagers, the advice is to aim for a modest gravity beer. If you want to make a DB or some other huge lager, make yourself a batch of a modest lager, then when you make the DB pitch on the entire cake. Otherwise good luck pitching enough yeast.
Click to expand...


2 packets of dry yeast + a 3L yeast starter should do the trick. :)

And there are bigger styles... Baltic porter and eisbock to name a few. I wouldn't recommend starting with a high gravity lager, but there's no magic reason that you have to stay under 1.060. Just have to target a higher pitching rate for lager yeast than ale yeast.
 
joshesmusica said:
I was thinking possibly the Vienna route. Is it simply all vienna malt for the malt bill?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Check out some of the recipes in the European Amber Lager section of the recipe data base to get a better idea of what else is added. Usually some sort of grain to darken the color. In addition to Vienna, I used some Munich II, as well as some Caramel 60, and a smidgen of Carafa I in my recipe. It's at the dark end of the color scale for a Vienna Lager though. My Vienna is lagering and is not done yet, so I'm not posting the recipe until I'm sure it's a good one.
 
All I brew are lagers. Last year it was German Pils, OFest and Dunkel. This year I'm experimenting with Czech lagers. I'm making some very rich malty Czech ambers and darks with higher percentages of Caramunich. Wyeast 2000 Budvar has been my latest yeast to play around with, it really brings out a malty sweet caramel flavor for me.

Something else I've been playing with is Best Red X malt. It makes a great red lager simply by itself with a OG of 1.050.
 

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