Dry Yeast for Lager Made With Pilsner Malt?

[Clint Yeastwood]

What's a good dry yeast for this lager? I saw Denny Conn saying he liked Diamond for Czech pilsner, which seems similar.

10 lbs. Pilsner malt
12 oz. 10L crystal malt
1 oz. Magnum, boil 30 minutes
1 ounce Crystal hops, steep

Beersmith thinks it will be about 43 IBU.

Looking for a beer that's clean, with some Crystal hop aroma. As light as I can get it without throwing out the crystal malt.

In the past, I made this with different hops, and I mashed at 158. It came out fine, but I'm wondering if I should try something like 152.

On one occasion, I came out with 6 gallons at 1.058, which I did not understand. I was shooting for 1.053.

Looks like Brulosophy tried something similar with different mash temperatures, and no difference was discernible.

 

[z-bob]

W34/70 has a good reputation. That's what I used in my first ever lager and I think It's turning out good but won't know for sure for another week or so. (it's just about time to bottle it) It fermented *fast* at about 60 degrees F, I transferred it off of the trub and put it back in the 58 degree basement and in a few days it dropped beautifully clear.

Why do you have that much crystal malt in your recipe? Also, 43 is pretty high for a pilsner.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

It used to be a lot higher than 43. This is the new mild version.

I like using crystal to balance bitterness.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I wonder if I should take a chance on Kveik Lutra. I have never used Kveik.

 

[BQ&W]

I like 34/70.
Never tried Kveik, but if I did, I don't think I'd call it a "lager".

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I learned something interesting today. "Kveik" comes from the same root as "quick."

 

[z-bob]

I've used Voss kveik quite a few times, but there's nothing remotely "lager" about it. I like it; it allows me to brew a good pale ale in mid summer. Other times of the year it does just fine for fermentation but takes forever to carbonate the bottles. Maybe I just need to move the bottles to a hotbox.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Have you tried Lutra? That's the one that interests me.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Never used crystal malt in my pils. Based on my other recipes it wouldn't be what I'm personally looking for in a czech pils so I'll just leave that one for others to argue.

Done it with 34/70, Diamond, and Lutra. The Lutra is totally fine but it won't give quite the crisp edge that I like. If you lager it for several weeks then it's probably going to be closer than you would think though. And it will be a great beer. If you've got serious temp constraints then go Lutra. I know you said dry but OSLO from Bootleg Biology also makes a great sub here.

If you want a feel that's close to a czech pils and you have at least some temp control then go with 34/70 or Diamond. Diamond always gives me a slight apple ester. Not unpleasant but not for every beer. If you want more neutral then I say do 34/70. Opinions differ but IMO if you can keep it in the high 50s to low 60s you'll get a pretty clean lager. I always like a bit of esters in my Czech pils, though, so I guess that's another consideration.

@z-bob speaks the truth with Voss. Save that for a pale ale or something. It'll bring way too much to the table for a pils. Looking forward to that update on your lager, @z-bob

Last pils I did was mashed at 150. I like mine pretty dry and if you're going with crystal malt I would think keeping it drier would help. 34/70 would take you down to 1.008 or so on that.

The steep hops looks great to me. I go even a little higher usually. I also like to sprinkle some in the late boil for complexity. I'm always up around 40 IBU for my pils and I wouldn't have it any other way. Most others seem to enjoy it too. Palates will vary but I would definitely drink it. Let me know how the crystal hops work out. I've got a bag of those on deck

 

[lumpher]

Kveik "Ale" yeast... I'd go with 34/70. Not a great fan of Diamond. Mashed at 158 for a lager? More like 148-150.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Have you tried Lutra? That's the one that interests me

If you're interested then I say do it. Plenty of lager yeasts out there are technically ale yeasts. Burning all these witches at the stake gets tiresome after a while, though. Let other people argue about whether or not it's a czech pils. It does a pretty solid job and it's been stupid reliable for me. I've had people rave about my "pils" fermented with Lutra. I spared them the exhausting discussion of yeast genealogy.

Do it with 34/70 at some point too. Life's too short not to drink more pils.

*edit* Sorry, @lumpher, I didn't see your post until after I added mine. That wasn't targeted at you or anything. I'm game for discussions on ale vs lager with those who care. For my own beer and with non beer people I don't bother too much, though. If Clint is interested in Lutra then I say, for him, go for it.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

The steep hops looks great to me. I go even a little higher usually. I also like to sprinkle some in the late boil for complexity. I'm always up around 40 IBU for my pils and I wouldn't have it any other way. Most others seem to enjoy it too. Palates will vary but I would definitely drink it. Let me know how the crystal hops work out. I've got a bag of those on deck

I used to make this with nothing but Nugget hops. I then went to 60 minutes Nugget, 30 minutes Magnum. I can't get Nugget now without throwing my whole procurement scheme out of whack, so it's Magnum and Crystal. Should be fine. It always has been. I just want to get the yeast right.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Should be fine. It always has been.

Sounds like all the evidence on that you need, then I was thinking a little crystal at maybe 5 mins or something but certainly not necessary. Never done it with crystal anyway, so take it with a big ol' grain of salt.

I just want to get the yeast right.

Lutra and 34/70 make me different beers but they each have their place. I think Lutra is a little rounder and has some slight ale-like esters because, you know, it's an ale yeast. I get that kveik twang from many kveiks but not Lutra, though. I doubt you'll regret trying it even if it's not ultimately your thing. I've used it in a range of hoppier styles with good results too.

 

[dmtaylor]

Diamond all the way

 

[z-bob]

If you like Nugget and Magnum, then Magnum and Crystal should be just as good or better. Mt Hood is another one you might like for the late hops addition. Also Liberty and Sterling. (Sterling is a high-alpha hops but is otherwise kinda like Saaz)

There are almost too many good hop varieties now.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

If you're interested then I say do it. Plenty of lager yeasts out there are technically ale yeasts. Burning all these witches at the stake gets tiresome after a while, though. Let other people argue about whether or not it's a czech pils. It does a pretty solid job and it's been stupid reliable for me. I've had people rave about my "pils" fermented with Lutra. I spared them the exhausting discussion of yeast genealogy.

Do it with 34/70 at some point too. Life's too short not to drink more pils.

Yeah, I really have no interest in turning every brew discussion into a dog show. Far as I'm concerned, beer is whatever it seems to be. If it tastes exactly like a lager, it might as well be one. I mean, you can make a lager without lagering it, so how can people complain about the yeast? Lagering is the whole reason lagers are called lagers. If you can make lager without lagering, why can't you make it with kveik? If it doesn't taste like lager, though, I guess it's something else.

You probably noticed I didn't call this a real pilsner. I have no interest in that. I'm pretty sure the only Czech pilsner I ever drank was Urquell, and I thought it was like skunky-hop mouthwash. I heard people brag about it, but then they drank Piels.

I figure a yeast that will do a good job with a pilsner will work well in this beer, but I'm not trying to make more Urquell.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

If you like Nugget and Magnum, then Magnum and Crystal should be just as good or better. Mt Hood is another one you might like for the late hops addition. Also Liberty and Sterling. (Sterling is a high-alpha hops but is otherwise kinda like Saaz)

There are almost too many good hop varieties now.

That is really true.

 

[BQ&W]

Life's too short not to drink more pils.

I may have a new signature line!

 

[eliastheodosis]

Yeah, I really have no interest in turning every brew discussion into a dog show

Completely agreed! I didn't even notice if you called it a real pilsner. Don't particularly care You definitely can't go wrong with either 34/70 or Diamond. To my palate at least the differences are pretty subtle. They'll both make you a good pils if you treat them right. Lutra will give you something in the right direction, at least, and it's just stupid easy.

 

[z-bob]

Have you tried Lutra? That's the one that interests me.

I have not. It's on my todo list, but it's pretty far down the list. I might get to it in a few years.

 

[lumpher]

@eliastheodosis *edit* Sorry, @lumpher, I didn't see your post until after I added mine. That wasn't targeted at you or anything. I'm game for discussions on ale vs lager with those who care. For my own beer and with non beer people I don't bother too much, though. If Clint is interested in Lutra then I say, for him, go for it.

No sweat, my friend. I agree with you 100%. I've made good ale recipes using lager yeast and good lagers subbing ale yeast. I'm in this hobby to have fun and enjoy the results. It's all about the results, not following directions.

 

[AlexKay]

If I’m shooting for clean, get-out-of-the-way dry yeast, W34/70 is great. No question my pick for strong lagers. It behaves well at relatively high temperatures, too, which is just a bonus.

And then there’s Lallemand Koln. Sure, it’s an ale yeast, but Kolsch is really a hybrid style anyway — it’s a clean ale you ferment cold and then store. I’m using Koln for all sorts of non-Kolsch beers lately. California Common. Pre-Pro Porter. Grodziskie.

 

[Dland]

S-189 has worked well for me with a variety of pilsner malt based brews, generally pils making 100% to 75% of grist.

But if one does not have temp control to keep fermentation below 59F, and 50F is better, then 34/70 is a decent choice.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I learned something interesting today. "Kveik" comes from the same root as "quick."

As in that moment during pregnancy when a womb quickens (she can feel the little tyke), not our modern sense of 'quick' meaning fast. Much as we wait for the moment we see life in our fermenters.

 

[mac_1103]

Much as we wait for the moment we see life in our fermenters.

The Kveik and the dead?

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Here is what Wikipedia says: "The word 'kveik' in the meaning of 'yeast' stems from the old Norse word 'kvikk' (Eng: vigorous and fast) in the meaning of 'healthy, lively'."

 

[eliastheodosis]

Here is what Wikipedia says: "The word 'kveik' in the meaning of 'yeast' stems from the old Norse word 'kvikk' (Eng: vigorous and fast) in the meaning of 'healthy, lively'."

And that Wikipedia source... HBT!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Check out the Ws for a particularly interesting item in this list of etymological cousins.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/qui...sh quik, from Old,Dutch kwik "lively, bright,

 

[mac_1103]

I'm pretty sure that quick as in "not dead" predates quick as in "fast."

cwic - Old English - "living, alive, animate, characterized by the presence of life"
kvikr - Old Norse - "living, alive"

And it's not hard to see how the modern meaning of quick follows from the archaic meaning of quick.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I'm pretty sure that quick as in "not dead" predates quick as in "fast."

cwic - Old English - "living, alive, animate, characterized by the presence of life"
kvikr - Old Norse - "living, alive"

And it's not hard to see how the modern meaning of quick follows from the archaic meaning of quick.

In the link I shared just before your post, they mention the modern meaning developing by 1300CE. That's quite a few generations after the Angles and Saxons hopped the Channel.

 

[rallenhall]

I used to do the "wet t-shirt and fan" process for summer basement lagers with WY2124 and they turned out well, even though I doubt if the actual fermentation temperature got below 60F. I'd expect 34/70 to have similar performance. Have done a number of Lutra "lagers" as well, and enjoyed them. Probably more in the blonde ale category, but I like good blondes. I used Lutra thinking that it would speed the process, but it took quite awhile to clear and condition so don't think that I saved all that much time.

 

[aceluby]

If looking for a clean lager without worrying about temp control, definitely check out Mangrove Jack's Cali Lager strain. Pretty sure it's an ale strain, technically, but it produces a far cleaner beer than lutra and doesn't have the esters like 34/70. Lately I've really enjoyed the 34/70 more because of the esters, but if I want something squeaky clean I reach for MJ's Cali Lager strain

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

We call the flesh under a fingernail the quick because it's alive and the nail is not.

 

[Miraculix]

Have you tried Lutra? That's the one that interests me.

I tried Lutra, it is the cleanest kveik I know of, but still miles away from a lager profile.

 

[Miraculix]

If looking for a clean lager without worrying about temp control, definitely check out Mangrove Jack's Cali Lager strain. Pretty sure it's an ale strain, technically, but it produces a far cleaner beer than lutra and doesn't have the esters like 34/70. Lately I've really enjoyed the 34/70 more because of the esters, but if I want something squeaky clean I reach for MJ's Cali Lager strain

3470 and esters? We must have used different yeasts. I have brewed many beers with 3470 at room temperature and it was always clean. No esters whatsoever.

I agree regarding the mangrove jack yeast, it is a great yeast for room temperature lager beer.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

It's so funny to see people say "room temperature" when they mean 65 degrees. Life is different here. I have to remember I'm the outlier.

 

[Miraculix]

It's so funny to see people say "room temperature" when they mean 65 degrees. Life is different here. I have to remember I'm the outlier.

I am talking about 20 C.

 

[eliastheodosis]

3470 and esters? We must have used different yeasts. I have brewed many beers with 3470 at room temperature and it was always clean. No esters whatsoever.

Same. And I've femented it up to 18C/65F with those results.

It's so funny to see people say "room temperature" when they mean 65 degrees. Life is different here. I have to remember I'm the outlier.

Chicago area in a house built in the 50s. I've got the thermostat set to 68 and there are definitely spots in the house under 65F right now. It was maybe -5 or -10 here just a while back. Sometimes I forget there are areas of the country where lagers can never happen without scientific intervention...

 

[hbarsquared]

I've brewed faux-Pilsners with Lutra, both at ~20C and ~30C without temp control. They have turned out great, very drinkable and fairly clean. They aren't lagers though, and no experienced taster would confuse them for a beer brewed with lager yeast.

If you really need a beer on tap next week, you can make a great clean ale with Lutra, but if you want a lager you're going to have to wait.