Missing gravity target by .015......

I am having trouble hitting my gravity with my system. It seems as if I am getting more grain absorption in the mash than Beer Smith tells me I should. I do 5 gal batches with a cooler for a mash tun and batch sparge. Last batch had 6lbs 2 row, 6 lbs wheat malt, 2 lbs pilsner malt, and 1 lb of vienna. my post boil gravity was about 1.060. The downside to my system is I have to split the boil into 2 pots, but I sparge per normal. Any suggestions would be very welcome. Have a great weekend~!

How much water are you putting in and how much are you getting out?

MalFet said:

How much water are you putting in and how much are you getting out?

Click to expand...

Yeah...we need more info

I struggled with efficiency for along time but I was at least consistent and after spending too much money on new mash tuns and false bottoms and so on, I realized my burner was weak and I wasn’t boiling off enough water in the boil. I got a new burner and used more water in the mash and collected more water to boil off, now I get better efficiencies.

I am using 1.3 qts of water per pound of grain. So, for 15 lbs of grain, I'm using 4.876 gal of water to mash. I probably get somewhere between 2.5 and 3 gal for first runoff. Does that help??

King of Cascade said:

Yeah...we need more info

I struggled with efficiency for along time but I was at least consistent and after spending too much money on new mash tuns and false bottoms and so on, I realized my burner was weak and I wasn’t boiling off enough water in the boil. I got a new burner and used more water in the mash and collected more water to boil off, now I get better efficiencies.

Click to expand...

how long did it take you to realize you weren't boiling off enough...that should be evident after your first batch going into the fermentation vessel.

DSMbrewer said:

I am using 1.3 qts of water per pound of grain. So, for 15 lbs of grain, I'm using 4.876 gal of water to mash. I probably get somewhere between 2.5 and 3 gal for first runoff. Does that help??

Click to expand...

OK...I don't know why I'm such a huge advocate of BrewTarget, but I think it has something to do with the fact that I see this quote so many time on HBT....

"I use beersmith and ______ doesn't seem to be accurate as to what beersmith tells me." (grain absorption, boil-off, etc.)

Use brewtarget...its opensource freeware...and it works great. has a mash wizard that will tell you everything you need to know for a single infusion mash.....just pick your grain mash temp and sparge temp and it does the rest....and did I say it's FREE...yep sure did...oh yeah, it's FREEEEEE!!!! I don't want to hear anyone else complain about beersmith....this stuff is free and actually works!

So we know what mcaple1 thinks...

I've been using BeerSmith for a while now and just had to make sure I entered the parameters for my hardware in order to get accurate water in/out amounts. Once I did that, it's more than accurate enough (we're making beer here, not doing brain surgery)... I figured out how much water was left in my mash tuns once it stopped flowing out. I also figured out how fast I typically boil off the wort (evaporation per hour). Grain absorption is pretty static, so that's not an issue. You have the ability to adjust the parameters for your hardware within BeerSmith, rather easily. You can also create new hardware sets to match your exact setup. Simply select that hardware set for your batch and it will load up those settings for you. If you're using the generic/default values, then that's at least a good part of the issue.

I typically use 1.25-1.33qt/# of grain in my batches. Since I switched to using the mash in/mash out method, my batch efficiency has improved.

While brewtarget is free, I don't see the cost of BeerSmith being much of an issue. I'm waiting for the release of v2.0 of BeerSmith to see how things are. IMO brewtarget is not nearly as good as BeerSmith. I've only been using BeerSmith for about 6 months now, but was able to quickly figure it out, and formulate recipes. IME, brewtarget is more difficult to use (sure, it might have a nice skin on it, but that's about it)...

Use the app that works for you, just make sure you have it set properly. IMO, if more people did that, we would see far less posts about software issues.

golddiggie,

yeah, totally agree...use what works for you. I was just stating that I see so many forum posts like this one complaining about beersmith screwing up their brew day with errors in the estimations. honestly, I use beersmith and brewtarget, but brewtarget I have found to be more user friendly. pick the grains, pick, the hops, pick the yeast, pick the mash and sparge temps....DONE. I can get a recipe together with mash schedule (amount, temp, etc) done in 3 minutes or less....and that is no lie.

....not sure what's so confusing about that

What does it tell you for grain absorption? At 15 lbs it should be about 3.25 gallons. Then, of course, there are losses in the mash tun and boil of rate.

mcaple1, I'm never 'done' with a recipe in 3 minutes (or less)... Sure, I have the first draft entered, but then I get to thinking about it, or decide to tweak it this way or that. Or start wondering about changing something to see what I'll get. Or I get wind of a different grain that I think might work well in the recipe, so I start messing around with it there.

I do have my current batch of hops (that I'm using) entered into my inventory, complete with their AA%. I also have the grains that were not part of the databases from BeerSmith entered in.

I might give brewtarget another shot when I get my tablet (Windows 7 powered)... Just don't look forward to having to setup my hardware, and such, all over again.

Oh, and I do like to tweak the mash profile to match what I want... From the temp's to the volumes... I typically try to sparge with at least 2 gallons, so that usually means tweaking the mash in/out volumes.

Maybe because I'm used to BeerSmith now, that I find it easier to use. We'll see with the coming v2.0 release.

I do think that you should tweak the settings to match your rig/gear set. I did that after a few all grain batches (once I started using a mash tun) and it helped out a lot. Once I got my propane burner, I was able to enter those parameters into the fields to ensure I got the correct amount of wort into the boil kettle. Since I'm changing my boil kettle with the next batch, I'll probably need a batch, or two, to dial that in. I think it's a different diameter than the one I've been using, which will impact the boil-off rate.

golddiggie....perhaps I need to give you a 5 minute class on brewtarget. all of those things that you said you want to be able to fiddle with (sparge volume, etc) can all be done within the wizard. the wizard allows you to make it as simple, or as complicated as you want it to be. when you say what you want your mash temp to be, you drag a slider bar until you get the right qt/lb ratio you want, and it will shoot you a number for strike water and volume. same process goes for the sparge. you really can't mess it up. I think there is a tutorial on the internet...let me dig it up and post it here.

I thought there was one with sound but this will work as well. Around 2 minutes into the video it discusses the mash wizard.

mcaple1 said:

golddiggie....perhaps I need to give you a 5 minute class on brewtarget. all of those things that you said you want to be able to fiddle with (sparge volume, etc) can all be done within the wizard. the wizard allows you to make it as simple, or as complicated as you want it to be. when you say what you want your mash temp to be, you drag a slider bar until you get the right qt/lb ratio you want, and it will shoot you a number for strike water and volume. same process goes for the sparge. you really can't mess it up. I think there is a tutorial on the internet...let me dig it up and post it here.

Click to expand...

Nahh, I'm good with what I'm using... Already have BeerSmith dialed-in, so not really looking to change to another package right now. With how I have things tweaked, I don't want to spend the time to enter in the additional grains, and hardware, into a new program. Took me less than 20 seconds to duplicate my current kettle/mash tun hardware set and tweak it for the new set, including renaming it. I do plan on checking to see how much is left in the new kettle before brew day, and I'll adjust the settings accordingly. I suspect the new BoilerMaker leaves very little wort behind... :rockin:

have fun!

rjwhite41.........beersmith is telling me 1.8 gallons for grain absorption with 15 lbs and 2.72 gal for sparge water.....

mcaple1 said:

how long did it take you to realize you weren't boiling off enough...that should be evident after your first batch going into the fermentation vessel.

Click to expand...

I was collecting less water to start the boil because my evaporation rate was lower….So when I got a better burner it increased my % evaporation thus had to collect more water.

DSMbrewer said:

rjwhite41.........beersmith is telling me 1.8 gallons for grain absorption with 15 lbs and 2.72 gal for sparge water.....

Click to expand...

I don't use beersmith and I do all my calculations by hand so I don't know why it's telling you that but from my experience and my calculations 3.25 gallons will be the absorption rate of 15 lbs of grain. That's at least part of your problem.

I believe this is a case of the nut behind the wheel. Beersmith is dead on when all parameters are correct. I mean to the ounce accurate. And why are you mashing so thick??


-

rjwhite41 said:

I don't use beersmith and I do all my calculations by hand so I don't know why it's telling you that but from my experience and my calculations 3.25 gallons will be the absorption rate of 15 lbs of grain. That's at least part of your problem.

Click to expand...

Using .136 gals / lb of grain my absorption is 2.04 gallons.

wildwest.....in you opinion, is 1.3 qts per pound not enough liquid to mash? Is that what your saying?

jmf143 said:

Using .136 gals / lb of grain my absorption is 2.04 gallons.

Click to expand...

I multiply the weight of the grains by 0.2 which actually equals 3, not 3.25. I always add the extra quarter to make up for my mash tun losses (which of course could be added in elsewhere but that's how I do it). The formula is taken from Designing Great Beers and is explained in great detail there. Where do you get .136 gals/ lb? Btw, 1.3 qts/lb is fine. Anything between 1-2 is fine, I'll adjust it based on the beer but 1.5 is average for me.

Like Golddiggie says, Beersmith is as good as you set it up to be. I don't know about BS1.4, but in 2.0 you can customize your absorption ratio to more accurately fit what your experience yields

DSM, I'm sorry I have no advice but I hope someone else will have some ideas.

rjwhote.....did not do .136 gal/lb......1.3 qts for me....i guess I need to review in "Designing Great Beers" to review....do you consistantly use 1.5 qts per lb. of water/grist??

DSMbrewer said:

rjwhote.....did not do .136 gal/lb......1.3 qts for me....i guess I need to review in "Designing Great Beers" to review....do you consistantly use 1.5 qts per lb. of water/grist??

Click to expand...

It will change depending on the style of beer (or in some cases my miscalculations). Sometimes it's lower and sometimes it's higher. By the way, someone else said they use .136 gal/lb, I was asking them where they got that number.