First AG GF Brewday Reviewed

jmitchell3 said:

Hey there, sorry it took so long for me to respond, for some reason my thread updates weren't posting to my email. weird.

Two things happening here: Gelatinization and Saccharafication. Gelatinization is when the starches become soluble and thus accessible to the enzymes responsible for turning those starches into fermentable sugars. Saccharafication of course is the process of turning those starches into fermentable sugars.

With many gluten free grains, the gelatinization temp is higher than the saccharafication temp. Thus, for decent efficiency, it is necessary to gelatinize the grains first, then rest them at a sacc. rest temp for starch conversion.

Unfortunately, the gelatinization temp for these grains is higher than the operating range for the saccharafication enzymes, and those enzymes start to denature at these higher temps (160-170 or so). That's why with high adjunct barley grists and for most GF grists it is necessary to add supplemental diatase, amylase, or other enzyme to aid in starch conversion after the gelatinization rest is complete and the mash has cooled.

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jmitchell3 thank you very much for this post, this helped me out a lot and now things make a little more sense to me.

When dealing with most wheat based grains is the gelatinization temperature a lot lower and or lower than the saccharafication temperature?

I found this website
http://www.yofermentosingluten.com/#!gluten-free-all-grain-step-mash/c5j9

If this is true in order to mash without the addition of outside enzymes, one would need to first extract the beta and alpha amalyze then get the grain up to the necessary temperature for the gelantization rest and then cool and add back the extracted enzymes? Good Lord

DRV said:

jmitchell3 thank you very much for this post, this helped me out a lot and now things make a little more sense to me.

When dealing with most wheat based grains is the gelatinization temperature a lot lower and or lower than the saccharafication temperature?

I found this website
http://www.yofermentosingluten.com/#!gluten-free-all-grain-step-mash/c5j9

If this is true in order to mash without the addition of outside enzymes, one would need to first extract the beta and alpha amalyze then get the grain up to the necessary temperature for the gelantization rest and then cool and add back the extracted enzymes? Good Lord

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Yeah, a sort of reverse decoction. With decoction a portion (like 1/3 or so is my understanding, though I've never done it) of the mash is removed and boiled then added back to the main mash to raise it from protein rest temp to sacc. temp. The boiling denatures ALL of the enzymes present in that portion of the mash, but the hot temps cook the grains providing very accessible starches and those always tasty maillard reactions. The rest of the mash will generally have enough enzyme to convert the starches from the entire mash volume.

Looks like that site is recommending a step mash when folks are malting their own grains. Modern malsters are generally producing "well modified" malts which means, in short, many of the reactions that are happening at those lower rests (protein, beta glucan, etc) unnecessary. With home malting, I imagine one doesn't really know the specific stats of the resulting malt, making a step mash kind of a catch all to make sure everything gets done that needs to be done for conversion to take place efficiently and completely. I imagine anything even from Eckert or Grouse will be pretty high quality and relatively well-modified which may make step mashing redundant. I don't have any experience though to back up that assumption so take it with a grain of salt. Or five.

My plan for Brew #4 will be to start with 14 lbs of grain with the same ratio, 12 lbs of millet and 2 of rice malt. I can then compare the efficiency I got with the previous three batches. This batch I will be taking PH readings and will continue to treat the water the way I have been. My thought is I will remove an amount of grist, at this point I chose 1/3 of the millet and rice for the "decoction". From there I would add the 1/3 of gelatinized grain to the rest of the grain in my mash tun and step mash it from there and raise the temperature through the strike water. This way I am able to expose the beta and alpha enzymes to the gelatinzed grain in the rests. Any thoughts?

Suppose that's the way to do it if you're not going to start high and reduce the temp while adding enzyme let us know how it goes!

Ill be bugging you soon....Your beer is my planed batch for July.. Fidel-farting around with a Black IPA this month.

Carry on.

DRV said:

Life got busy

Attached is a picture of the final product. I was pleasantly surprised about the success of this brew. There was hints of coffee, chocolate and even raisin.

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I don't have the exact dates of when I put this brew in a bottle but there was something I noticed yesterday with the several remaining bottles. They have a after taste that is sort of metallic. Does anyone know how and when that develops. The beer for the first 2 months was tasty, this specific flavor developed overtime. Otherwise Brew #3 was bottled two nights ago and will post more about the results shortly.

Thank you for this recipe and explicit instructions, including your crush sizes. I have a good friend that has a severe gluten allergy, but he LOVES a good beer. He always takes a small taste of my regular brews and really likes them. No I can surprise him with a couple cases just for him.

Thanks again and cheers!