Experiences with different saison yeast blends

@m00ps
How is the 3711/Wallonian Farmhouse coming along,oh master of blends?

badlee said:

@m00ps
How is the 3711/Wallonian Farmhouse coming along,oh master of blends?

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This is the 3rd time I tried this blend out if memory serves right. The last 2 times it ended up super dry (as youd expect given those two yeasts) with a crisp ginger-ale bite at the end. I figure this one will do the same since I didnt really change up the recipe. A lot of flaked stuff to help the body out and stuff.

I need to try another, but the last one had more carb on it and less green flavors. Im not sure why this one is taking longer. At first I figured it may have just been a mistake I made on carbing it, but the fact that its a bit undercarbed and has those young saison flavors makes me think its just being slow for some reason

Cheers very much m00ps for that reply and every post you have made.
Makes me envious of people who can easily get their hands on so many wicked strains.

jmill said:

Curious if anyone here has used WLP568 for their saison? I picked up a vial of it to do a saison this weekend so I can take advantage of the TX heat before it gets in triple digits.

White Labs advertises it as a Belgian Ale and Saison blend that balances out some of their other fruit-heavy offerings and also is a quicker to complete fermentation than some of the others.

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I used it a while back. it was nice. from what i remember, more spice then fruit. I started it around 75, then moved it to the garage at 85-90.

Hi @m00ps, just wanted to say thanks for your suggestion about midnight wheat. Opened the first bottle last afternoon.
It went on HotHead solo.
Quite a success. I would even say there is something of a stout in this beer! However it is very characteristically wheat, very refreshing and with a hint of sour (6 lemons were slaughtered at the altar, plus a ton of orange and pomelo zest), altogether a great great great summer night beer. Will repeat it with 3711, and might drop some Irish Ale yeast into it as well, just to push that stoutish note a bit up.

GQT said:

Hi @m00ps, just wanted to say thanks for your suggestion about midnight wheat. Opened the first bottle last afternoon.
It went on HotHead solo.
Quite a success. I would even say there is something of a stout in this beer! However it is very characteristically wheat, very refreshing and with a hint of sour (6 lemons were slaughtered at the altar, plus a ton of orange and pomelo zest), altogether a great great great summer night beer. Will repeat it with 3711, and might drop some Irish Ale yeast into it as well, just to push that stoutish note a bit up.

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Cool, glad your black saison experiment turned out well. That's a bunch of citrus in there. I bet that contributed a lot to the soury finish but also probably tipped it more towards a saison finish. I have added citrus to some of mine, but havent tried it in a dark one yet. Seems like a good idea

updates:

latest WY3711 & YB Wallonian Farmhouse:
This is the one that was puzzling me since it was still a bit undercarbed after 4wks. Its carbed up nicely by now and has some of the same characteristics i've come to expect from this blend (lemony flavors and crisp ginger bite in the finish), but its also got some different ones. I'm not sure if its the hops I used (southern cross vs sorachi ace, but only a bit) or what, but its got a creamy vanilla, almost lemon meringue finish to it. Even the head is reminds me of meringue. Its odd, considering it finished at 0.998 and is a whopping 8.1%. Im guessing a month or so down the road it will shift more towards what I expect, but its really interesting right now where its at.

YB Wallonian Farmhouse & WLP585 + pink peppercorns
I ended up adding a total of 1.5oz of pink peppercorns to this. 1oz at flameout and 0.5oz in the fermentor after sampling. I couldve added more without going overboard, the flavor is definitely there though. I wouldnt recommend using this much if you are using regular black peppercorns though.The pink ones are much less spicy and more light and fruity. Perfect for a saison. The WLP585 tart berry flavors work very well with the pink peppercorns (which I also found out are actually berries so go figure). The YB Wallonian farmhouse rounds out the finish so it isnt too tart but more smooth and a bit spicy. I definitely want to check out this idea more

WLP565 & INISBC-291
This one seems pretty middle of the road to me. Nice balance of fruit/spice and a hint of funk. A friends said it almost tasted like a wild ale, but I dont really see it. I used EXP527 hops and Rye in it, which I definitely think contributed to the spice. I think without both of those, it would lean more towards berry-fruit with a bit of spice

WY3711 & Hothead + kiwis + HOPS
This was my kiwi farmhouse IPA. The final color wasnt as weird and green as I expected from the look of it in the fermentor. There is definitely a bit of kiwi in the middle of the flavor as you take a sip, but it finishes dry and lemony. Pretty hard to discern the actual yeast contribution under all the tropical hops and fruit, but the finish I can definitely pick up 3711.

Im retrying a few of my favorite blends so far to see how they turn out. Switched a few small things with each, but shouldnt be enough to cloud the yeast character. I've got these fermenting right now. I think I'm finally narrowing down my favorite strains, although I still need to grab some WY3726 and that yeast bay kviek one that sounds similar to Hothead.
- WLP585 & INISBC-291
- Hothead & WLP585
- Hothead & INISBC-291

Hey @m00ps

Just saw this thread. I am planning on making a couple saisons over the rest of the summer as temps become more cooperative for fermenting it. I have only brewed a couple saisons. One was really awesome.... of course, it was a "second runnings" beer that I did as an after thought with 2 or 3 "out of date" yeasts I picked up at the home-brew store. And, of course, I took no notes on it...... Can't even remember what yeast (s) for sure. I am pretty sure one of them was a french saison yeast of some sort.

At any rate..... what I am looking for is a Saison that is dry (although not necessarily bone dry), crisp, clean, some citrus, slight pepper......

I don't want any banana, clove or phenolic flavors.

The yeasts that have kind of caught my eye so far are WL565, Wyeast 3711, Wyeast 3724

More than likely I will be chilling to mid 60's, and allowing free rise to higher temps. Probably start at cooler ambient temp and move to higher ambient temp. after a day or two. This is what I did the other time as well. I won't be "heating" it up to 85+.

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions as to a couple yeasts that would put me in the ball park of what I am shooting for.
Thanks

Thanks for the updates m00ps

Braufessor said:

Hey @m00ps

Just saw this thread. I am planning on making a couple saisons over the rest of the summer as temps become more cooperative for fermenting it. I have only brewed a couple saisons. One was really awesome.... of course, it was a "second runnings" beer that I did as an after thought with 2 or 3 "out of date" yeasts I picked up at the home-brew store. And, of course, I took no notes on it...... Can't even remember what yeast (s) for sure. I am pretty sure one of them was a french saison yeast of some sort.

At any rate..... what I am looking for is a Saison that is dry (although not necessarily bone dry), crisp, clean, some citrus, slight pepper......

I don't want any banana, clove or phenolic flavors.

The yeasts that have kind of caught my eye so far are WL565, Wyeast 3711, Wyeast 3724

More than likely I will be chilling to mid 60's, and allowing free rise to higher temps. Probably start at cooler ambient temp and move to higher ambient temp. after a day or two. This is what I did the other time as well. I won't be "heating" it up to 85+.

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions as to a couple yeasts that would put me in the ball park of what I am shooting for.
Thanks

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3711 will get you what you're looking for. 565/3724 are harder to work with and might not dry out as much.

Braufessor said:

Hey @m00ps

Just saw this thread. I am planning on making a couple saisons over the rest of the summer as temps become more cooperative for fermenting it. I have only brewed a couple saisons. One was really awesome.... of course, it was a "second runnings" beer that I did as an after thought with 2 or 3 "out of date" yeasts I picked up at the home-brew store. And, of course, I took no notes on it...... Can't even remember what yeast (s) for sure. I am pretty sure one of them was a french saison yeast of some sort.

At any rate..... what I am looking for is a Saison that is dry (although not necessarily bone dry), crisp, clean, some citrus, slight pepper......

I don't want any banana, clove or phenolic flavors.

The yeasts that have kind of caught my eye so far are WL565, Wyeast 3711, Wyeast 3724

More than likely I will be chilling to mid 60's, and allowing free rise to higher temps. Probably start at cooler ambient temp and move to higher ambient temp. after a day or two. This is what I did the other time as well. I won't be "heating" it up to 85+.

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions as to a couple yeasts that would put me in the ball park of what I am shooting for.
Thanks

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WY3711 or even Belle Saison comes to my mind when I think of crisp, clean, citrus. Belle saison will have a bit more spice.

WY3724 / WLP565 are pretty classic middle-of-the-road to me. If you ferment higher, youll get less spice. I get more peppery flavors from it than and hefe-like clove/banana. I would definitely steer clear of WLP566 if you dont want any somewhat hefe-like esters in the mix


A combo of the two would, in my mind, get you right about where you want to be. More classic rustic peppery flavors from the 565/3724 and the 3711 will bring out more lemon and get the finish crisp and refreshing.

Another option, if you can get it, would be Omega Saisonstein's monster. It is supposed to be a true genetic hybrid of those 2 strains. I haven't used it too recently, but it definitely had some characteristics of both those strains

m00ps said:

A combo of the two would, in my mind, get you right about where you want to be. More classic rustic peppery flavors from the 565/3724 and the 3711 will bring out more lemon and get the finish crisp and refreshing.

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This is the strategy I am going with. 3724/3711 combo.

2 questions -

1.) Should I make one starter, with both yeasts and add it all at once. Or, should I make two starters, and add the 3724 right away, and maybe add 3711 on day 2 or 3???

2.) If I want to brew multiple beers with this combo, do you think I am better off making the separate starters and keeping yeast separate to build up in separate starters for future brew. Or, Just harvest from the fermenter at the conclusion of fermentation and go with whatever percentage/proportion the yeasts managed to get to during fermentation?

Thanks

Braufessor said:

This is the strategy I am going with. 3724/3711 combo.

2 questions -

1.) Should I make one starter, with both yeasts and add it all at once. Or, should I make two starters, and add the 3724 right away, and maybe add 3711 on day 2 or 3???

2.) If I want to brew multiple beers with this combo, do you think I am better off making the separate starters and keeping yeast separate to build up in separate starters for future brew. Or, Just harvest from the fermenter at the conclusion of fermentation and go with whatever percentage/proportion the yeasts managed to get to during fermentation?

Thanks

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It kinda goes against the whole "farmhouse spirit", but I keep all my yeast starters separate for blending and try to do about 50/50 pitches. I made the mistake of combining a bunch early on and realized later that I wouldnt be able to pick out any of those yeasts anymore. So I would definitely keep them separate if you want to harvest some for future batches. Plus, I figure that if you pitched them both in a single starter vessel, the final pitch would be more 3711 than 3724. Then the final beer may be even more leaning towards 3711. I'll use spare growlers and stuff for starter vessels if Im short on my usual containers

Good luck man, Im sure itll turn out well

I'm looking at making a saison this weekend and then add blueberries to half and tart cherry juice to the other half. I thought I had some 3711 in my fridge, but apparently i used that up and didn't keep any from the starter. I have 545 that I was going to combine with the 3711, not truly a saison strain but many have said it works for the style...

Any recommendations for yeast strain and amounts of the fruit/juice?

Rack onto the juice/fruit in secondary. Use a few (1-3) lbs of blueberries, or about 1/2 gallon of tart cherry juice.

bolus14 said:

I'm looking at making a saison this weekend and then add blueberries to half and tart cherry juice to the other half. I thought I had some 3711 in my fridge, but apparently i used that up and didn't keep any from the starter. I have 545 that I was going to combine with the 3711, not truly a saison strain but many have said it works for the style...

Any recommendations for yeast strain and amounts of the fruit/juice?

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Isnt 545 the Rochefort strain? I think that 3711 would go well with it. Its got a lot of dark fruit and berry flavors and 3711 will brighten it up.

The fruit juice / blueberries is an interesting idea. It will definitely stress the 545 flavors, but shouldnt bring about any additional sweetness. How large of a batch are you splitting?

I've added a couple different berries/fruit to beers and IME, you need AT LEAST 3lbs per 5gal batch to get any sort of noticeable contribution. I don't know about the juice itself though

545 is a hard one to pin down, supposedly from a brewery in the Ardennes region, but is different than the Wyeast Ardennes strain.

I'm planning to brew a 5.5 or 6 gal batch, still playing with the numbers.
I have read the same about fruit, especially blueberries. I was planning of using around 3lbs for the half that I use them in.
For the cherry juice I've read that 64oz is noticeable in a 5 gal batch so I was planning to use 32 for this.

bolus14 said:

545 is a hard one to pin down, supposedly from a brewery in the Ardennes region, but is different than the Wyeast Ardennes strain.

I'm planning to brew a 5.5 or 6 gal batch, still playing with the numbers.
I have read the same about fruit, especially blueberries. I was planning of using around 3lbs for the half that I use them in.
For the cherry juice I've read that 64oz is noticeable in a 5 gal batch so I was planning to use 32 for this.

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I like a 2ish lb per gallon for blueberries (or more - my mead has half of the fermentables coming from blueberries). Blueberries are a soft/delicate flavor to get to come through.

Awesome, man!
Saisons are one of my favorite styles to brew.
Our culture has been primary with wallonian, followed by secondary with a mix of Brett and cantillon bugs.
Getting very dry, lemony, bright, acidity in a couple months, then bottle conditioning with a touch of the same Brett for some intense, expressive funk aromas.

I'm very curious about adding in the 3711 now.
I've never been a huge fan of intense peppercorn, bubblegum, or clovey flavors though.
Did you find the 3711/wallonian mix to throw those off?
I suppose I could try the mix and hold temp in the mid-high 70s though...

m00ps said:

It kinda goes against the whole "farmhouse spirit", but I keep all my yeast starters separate for blending and try to do about 50/50 pitches. I made the mistake of combining a bunch early on and realized later that I wouldnt be able to pick out any of those yeasts anymore. So I would definitely keep them separate if you want to harvest some for future batches. Plus, I figure that if you pitched them both in a single starter vessel, the final pitch would be more 3711 than 3724. Then the final beer may be even more leaning towards 3711. I'll use spare growlers and stuff for starter vessels if Im short on my usual containers

Good luck man, Im sure itll turn out well

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I haven't read through the whole thread, but have you had any experience using 2nd (or later) generation 3724/3711 slurry? I harvested slurry from my last batch, for which I originally pitched 3724, then 3711 once it stalled. This weekend I brewed an all-pilsner malt saison with styrian goldings and hallertau hops. I'm wondering what I should expect in terms of yeast character from the 2nd gen harvested stuff. I did a vitality starter with a pretty generous amount of slurry.

Also, is it safe to assume that if I keep harvesting and repitching slurry it will trend towards a 3711 flavor over time, given its attenuative properties?

jmill said:

Curious if anyone here has used WLP568 for their saison? I picked up a vial of it to do a saison this weekend so I can take advantage of the TX heat before it gets in triple digits.

White Labs advertises it as a Belgian Ale and Saison blend that balances out some of their other fruit-heavy offerings and also is a quicker to complete fermentation than some of the others.

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@jmill Curious to hear how your brew turned out. I just picked up the same yeast WLP568 as well as WLP565.

I would appreciate any feedback on how the fermentation is going.

Thanks!

jinjorge said:

Curious to hear how your brew turned out.

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It turned out really well. I started it down at 67F, let it sit out at room temp (73F) for a day, then in the garage where ambient temps hit 78-90. Stayed in garage for three weeks before bringing back inside to slowly cool back down. Racked to secondary yesterday. Managed a final reading of 1.006. The smell was absolutely amazing. Tasted like a good, but flat saison....nice combo of fruit and spice and not too heavy. I was worried the garage temps would be too high given that it is a blend, but it turned out fine. Bottling this one to share with friends.

jmill said:

It turned out really well. I started it down at 67F, let it sit out at room temp (73F) for a day, then in the garage where ambient temps hit 78-90. Stayed in garage for three weeks before bringing back inside to slowly cool back down. Racked to secondary yesterday. Managed a final reading of 1.006. The smell was absolutely amazing. Tasted like a good, but flat saison....nice combo of fruit and spice and not too heavy. I was worried the garage temps would be too high given that it is a blend, but it turned out fine. Bottling this one to share with friends.

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Awesome!!

popsicleian said:

I haven't read through the whole thread, but have you had any experience using 2nd (or later) generation 3724/3711 slurry? I harvested slurry from my last batch, for which I originally pitched 3724, then 3711 once it stalled. This weekend I brewed an all-pilsner malt saison with styrian goldings and hallertau hops. I'm wondering what I should expect in terms of yeast character from the 2nd gen harvested stuff. I did a vitality starter with a pretty generous amount of slurry.

Also, is it safe to assume that if I keep harvesting and repitching slurry it will trend towards a 3711 flavor over time, given its attenuative properties?

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Most of my saison strains are easily +10generations, but I always harvest yeast from ym starters so im not sure whether i'd call each one a "generation" in the sense of doing a whole fermentation with hops and everything.

If you are harvesting the blended yeast cake, im guessing it definitely will trend mroe towards 3711 over time. Making a starter and tasting the wort should give you a good idea of how much 3711-forward it is. If its almost lemony sour, that what id look for.

Either way, itll still be mroe complex than either strain alone. If you keep using the blend, thats basically the whole farmhouse tradition id say


edit: I just realized you let 3724 work before pitchign 3711. Depending on where and when it stalled, you could very likely have a cake that is at least 75% 3724 or so. Basing this figure on absoutely nothing

Does anyone have any experience with 3711 vs Belle Saison? I know they're both pretty mildly flavored yeasts with massive attenuation. I've used Belle Saison and I'm wondering specifically how much clove and lemon flavors they produce vs each other?

hopsandhops said:

Does anyone have any experience with 3711 vs Belle Saison? I know they're both pretty mildly flavored yeasts with massive attenuation. I've used Belle Saison and I'm wondering specifically how much clove and lemon flavors they produce vs each other?

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I haven't used belle saison in a while, but they are notable similar but also notably different.

3711 has an overall "brighter" yeast character to me. Its more lemony and tart, and it seems to contribute to the beers body despite the high attenuation

Belle Saison has more spice to it, but has a similar citrus flavor. I dont think it has quite the body contribution as 3711. The spice is more peppery to em than clove, but it may produce these flavors when the beer is younger. I've never gotten any clove from 3711 at any stage in the conditioning process

m00ps said:

I haven't used belle saison in a while, but they are notable similar but also notably different.

3711 has an overall "brighter" yeast character to me. Its more lemony and tart, and it seems to contribute to the beers body despite the high attenuation

Belle Saison has more spice to it, but has a similar citrus flavor. I dont think it has quite the body contribution as 3711. The spice is more peppery to em than clove, but it may produce these flavors when the beer is younger. I've never gotten any clove from 3711 at any stage in the conditioning process

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Interesting. I may have to swap Belle for 3711 for my next brew

Thanks!

m00ps, what do you think is the best yeast combination (or single yeast if you think it would be better) for brewing a saison to that is fruity and tart (I like sour saisons) while keeping spice notes very limited?......looking to brew a refreshing, tart/sour, fruity saison for the hot season (right now through Sept/Oct here in FL)....... Thank you in advance for any suggestions or advice on the yeast, recipe or any other aspects

kempshark said:

m00ps, what do you think is the best yeast combination (or single yeast if you think it would be better) for brewing a saison to that is fruity and tart (I like sour saisons) while keeping spice notes very limited?......looking to brew a refreshing, tart/sour, fruity saison for the hot season (right now through Sept/Oct here in FL)....... Thank you in advance for any suggestions or advice on the yeast, recipe or any other aspects

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Fruity and tart is how i'd describe my personal tastes in saisons. I like pepper, spice, and citrus too, but like to steer clear from any sweet clove-like flavors in the finish. This general yeast character also seems to work really well with newer hop varieties. These have been my most successful trials which resulted in something along those lines:
- WY3711 / Omega Hothead
- WY3711 / WLP585
- WLP585 / INISBC-291
- WY3711 / INISBC-291
- Omega Hothead / INISBC-291
- WY3463 / WLP585 *I didnt put this one in the thread I think since I was making a sour wit/saison experiment

So, definitely a bit of a pattern im noticing. I'll have to start more side-by-side trials from here I think. That, or find some more yeast strains to play with

For the grain bill, definitely pick some adjunct to use at a decent amount. I usually use some combo of wheat or rye and flaked versions. Im not really a fan of oats in a saison. Ive recently been playing around with spelt and have really been noticing the nutty flavor is contributes to the middle of each sip. I really enjoy it. Corn is interesting to work with too

If you really are wanting it notably tart or a buit sour, I would try adding some lactic acid straight to the fermentor according to your tastes. It worked great for a gose I made at the start of the year

Sorry, haven't read the entire thread yet. Have people tried fermenting at 90F all the way through? I just tried that with a saison I made using WY3724. The resulting beer fits pretty well with the flavor description on Wyeast's website. It is dry, spicy, slightly tart, some fruit. Anyway, I got excellent attenuation very quickly using this method. A few times I've had the classic stuck fermentation when ramping up.

My other question is that one time I made a saison with WLP565 and got a very fresh, spicy flavor, similar to a Belgian Golden Strong Ale when it is young. Is it possible to reliably get that kind of character from a saison somehow with a certain yeast or process? I have no idea how I got that flavor now and have never been able to repeat it. My saisons are good, but they have kind of a more aged character even when they are young it seems.

I've been experimenting with 3724 for the past 6 months. I did some with and without an airlock, some lower on the temp range, some on the high end. You can definitely ferment high from the very beginning without getting fusels in the final product. That said, it produces a white wine-like character that I wasn't super fond of and at times tastes over attenuated even though it had the same FG as lower fermented batches. I did get compliments on them but I wasn't satisfied with the profile.

The most recent batch I started at the normal 68 and held it for 2 days. I then ramped to 80 over the next 4. It tastes much more balance from the samples I've tasted this far.

I should say, the high end batches I started at 80 and ramped to 90+. I haven't done 90 from the start.

stickyfinger said:

Sorry, haven't read the entire thread yet. Have people tried fermenting at 90F all the way through? I just tried that with a saison I made using WY3724. The resulting beer fits pretty well with the flavor description on Wyeast's website. It is dry, spicy, slightly tart, some fruit. Anyway, I got excellent attenuation very quickly using this method. A few times I've had the classic stuck fermentation when ramping up.

My other question is that one time I made a saison with WLP565 and got a very fresh, spicy flavor, similar to a Belgian Golden Strong Ale when it is young. Is it possible to reliably get that kind of character from a saison somehow with a certain yeast or process? I have no idea how I got that flavor now and have never been able to repeat it. My saisons are good, but they have kind of a more aged character even when they are young it seems.

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You seem to be describing what I am calling the "young" saison yeast character. Some strains are more likely to display those more classic Belgian yeast flavors than others. WY3711, for instance, has never given me anything close to those flavors. On the other hand, WLP565/WY3724 is definitely one of them along with WLP566. I fermented a Belgian Strong Ale with WLP566, staying on the cooler side, and you cant really pick out that it was fermented using a saison yeast

Speaking of which, I've brought every saison yeast I've got into the 90s and havent had issue with bad off flavors. The only time I got fusely rubbery band aid flavors was a saison I made very early on which went back and forth in temp swings with my dumb attempts to warm it up. I havent started any of them that high though. I always pitch at 65-70 and let it free rise for a bit before ramping the temp up. But I see many others reporting good results just pitching hot

OK, that's a good description, "young." So, in your experience, to maximize that character I should use WY3724/WLP565 or WLP566? Maybe I'm just not a big Saison fan and should stick with beers made with WLP570. I love that yeast! I also love the flavor of WLP400. Most saisons taste kind of stale to me.

stickyfinger said:

OK, that's a good description, "young." So, in your experience, to maximize that character I should use WY3724/WLP565 or WLP566? Maybe I'm just not a big Saison fan and should stick with beers made with WLP570. I love that yeast! I also love the flavor of WLP400. Most saisons taste kind of stale to me.

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I would definitely go with WLP566 if that is what you are shooting for. I use it for any saisons I add spices to since it gives me the most reliably spicy yeast character. WY3724/WLP565, being THE "classic" saison yeast, runs the whole gamut of flavors from lightly tart citrus to peppery spice to bubblegum and clove. If you arent particularly fond of most saisons, I wouldnt recommend using that yeast. WLP566 is also a reliable attenuator and will get your beer more dry than is you used a "regular" belgian strain like WLP530/WY3787

Curious if you have tried other yeast bay saison yeasts. My favorite saison and one of my favorite beers is Anna from hillfarmstead. I know they use their local wild yeast but I have been in search of a yeast that is very similar.

YOpassDAmike said:

Curious if you have tried other yeast bay saison yeasts. My favorite saison and one of my favorite beers is Anna from hillfarmstead. I know they use their local wild yeast but I have been in search of a yeast that is very similar.

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Apart from some collaborations, I havent been fortunate enough to try any Hill Farmstead beers.

From the Yeast Bay, I only personally have experience using Wallonian Farmhouse and their Amalgamation Brett Blend. Both are very good, but the Amalgamation doesnt really apply to this thread (although I have used it in a brett saison that is the best one ive tried so far). I have heard only good things about their saison blends 1 and 2 though. I think it was speculated a bit a few pages back on which strains they contain

I didn't know they use a wild yeast for their saisons. Are you sure that isn't just for brett/sours? I haven;t done any research so I have no idea.

I would think that if you are looking for a yeast character very similar to HF, your best bet would be to culture up their dregs from a fresh bottle. That, or maybe try contacting them and inquiring what yeast they would recommend using for a profile similar to their saisons.

updates:
WY3711 & YB Wallonian Farmhouse
With the carbing issues finally gone of my 4th time using these, I can attest that this is a great proven combo. Its got a lemony ginger finish that is crisp and a bit bitey, but not tart thanks to the Wallonian Farmhouse. Its very dry, ridiculously dry, below 1.000 dry. However, both of these yeasts seem to provide adequate body and mouthfeel that it actually is more full than most of my other ones

WLP585 & YB Wallonian Farmhouse + Pink Peppercorn
This has turned out to be a great summer beer. Super light and refreshing. The middle flavor is tart berry fruits that I attribute to WLP585. The pink peppercorn is actually different from the other peppercorn varieties in that its technically a dried berry. I can taste this in the beer and chewing the whole peppercorns themselves. I only used a touch of noble hops here to be able to taste the peppercorn contribution. The finish isn't tart, but still dry. Its nice definitely dominated by Wallonian Farmhouse in that its a bit maltier and smooth than I'm used to. There is a lingering spicy bite from the peppercorn, but not anything that makes you need a sip of water or something like from what youd get from a pepper beer

WLP565 & INISBC-291
This has turned out to be a very "middle of the road" saison in terms of yeast esters. Its got peppery spice and lemon from the Dupont yeast and the sweet strawberry from the 291. Both yeasts have a bit of funky rustic flavors to them and those come through too. The finish seems to also be a combo of the two in that is more smooth than I usually get from 565 but not as spicy. Not my personal favorite, but people seem to dig it

WY3711 & INISBC-291
I had a local brewer try this one and he remarked that its reminiscent of lemonade. I definitely attribute this to the 3711 flavors I expect and how it makes for a crisp, tangy finish. The 291 helps round out the fruit flavors in the middle along with the motueka hops I used. The end result has kinda been like a tropical lemonade

upcoming:
WLP585 & beergolf wild rosemary yeast - table saison
2nd iteration of WLP585/acid malt/lactic acid - gose
also 2nd iterations of my favorite combos so far are bottled or about to be: WLP585/INISBC-291, YB Hothead/WLP585, YB Hothead/INISBC-291

I'm waiting patiently for my Torulaspora delbrueckii to be shipped from the Yeast Vault. I was thinking more inline of fermenting a week with the Torulaspora delbrueckii, harvesting, then finish off with 3711.

Maybe I can entice some orders to speed mine up

Wild yeast isolated from fruit trees in Denmark. This is one of the three strains that make up the WLP611 New Nordic Yeast blend. This wild yeast has been used for ciders and wine but also ferments well for beer. Produces a lot of esters and contributes some phenolics as well.

The yeast species Torulaspora delbrueckii is traditionally a longer fermentation and slower attenuator.

In a 21 Plato wort, in 5 days the attenuation was 25%. Medium acid producer.

Joe the Brewer says: "We used this in a blend (rye saison) and the beer dried quickly, with dry estery flavors like apples."

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Brewmasher said:

I'm waiting patiently for my Torulaspora delbrueckii to be shipped from the Yeast Vault. I was thinking more inline of fermenting a week with the Torulaspora delbrueckii, harvesting, then finish off with 3711.

Maybe I can entice some orders to speed mine up

Click to expand...

It took me a second to realize those were words, haha

That looks pretty interesting. The white labs tech said they used it in a saison, probably a good idea to use another yeast to finish it since it seems to be a sluggish attenuator, for beer at least

couldnt find the Blaugies strain from Wyeast cause its seasonal. Does White Labs have one? Heard HF uses it as a primary strain for their saisons