Porter Recipe, thoughts?

Hey... I'm a fair newbie. I just bottled my first batch (an ESB) and am planning my second batch. I know I am being ambitious in creating my own recipes, but I figured it's half fun and a good way to learn the ingredients.

I'm real interested in making a brown porter. I was maybe even thinking of a "mocha" porter but with coffee and choco malts not actual coffee & cocoa.

Here's the recipe, I'm thinking right now:
Malts:
Light DME 5 lb
Caramel 60L 1lb
Coffee Malt 0.5lb
Chocolate Malt 0.5lb
Black patent 0.25lb

Hops:
Northern Brewer Pellets (8.1%) 1oz @60
Kent Golding Pellets (4.5%) 1oz @30
Fuggle Pellets (3.8%) 1oz @ 15

Yeast:
Safale S-04 or maybe Windsor

Details:
OG: 1.048
IBU: 36

What do you all think?

Thanks!

If this is your own recipe you're light years ahead of where I was at that stage. It wasn't until my second batch until I knew what gravities were.

Starting with the grain bill it looks solid to me. I would be tempted to skip black patent. With the chocolate malt you will already be plenty dark.

I'm not a hophead, but my porter bitters with 1 ounce NB so I wouldn't change that.

I've never used Windsor but I've heard bad things on the board. My porter uses Nottingham and I have found that adequate. If you've used Windsor before and been happy though, by all means continue.

ha, thanks... I've read through How to Brew a few times.... I'm a big researcher.

I'll consider removing the black patent. I wasn't sure about it to begin with. It was kind of a last minute adjustment.

I've actually never used Windsor, I was just looking at yeasts and looking for an English Ale yeast. I used Safale S-04 for my ESB. I wasn't sure if I should try something different. I'll consider Nottingham.

I would leave the patent in there, but maybe tone it down to 2oz for a brown porter.

I add 4 oz to my own porter (which is in limbo between being a brown or a robust porter). I mainly add it to get the deep red color that porters are supposed to have, and a little bit of the ashen taste of the patent.

but, if you want a smooth brown porter you can probably eliminate it completely.

edit: I use wyeast 1028 (London Ale) yeast for my porter...

There was some big hub bub a couple months back concerning Nottingham though. Evidently there was some recall and lots of people had attenuation issues. I would research it on the boards before you do anything.

Maybe, I'll try S-04 again. I had a very vigorous fermentation within the first 24 hours.

I was thinking of sticking with dry yeast for the few batches, just to keep things more simple, no worries of starters, yet.

looks really good. The only thing that caught my eye was the IBU/gravity ratio. It seems like a bit much IBU for 1.048. You might add an extra pound of DME to round it out. But, to each his own.

Walker-

I was just looking at your recipe for your Holy Grail. You said you have a lack of head retention... Do you think I will have similar issue? I'm not sure if I should worry about it this early one, but would I want to consider adding some malto dextrin?

alcibiades-

I looked a little closer at the style guide and you're right. The range they give is 18-35, so I probably was a little high, especially if I want to get the coffee & chocolate aroma/flavor. Maybe I should cut out the aroma (15min) and some of the flavor (30min) and let the malt aromas/flavors come out more?

Maybe do .5 oz of the Kent Golding at 30 min. That'll end up about 26 IBU according to my calcs.

thenbagis said:

Walker-

I was just looking at your recipe for your Holy Grail. You said you have a lack of head retention... Do you think I will have similar issue? I'm not sure if I should worry about it this early one, but would I want to consider adding some malto dextrin?

Click to expand...

Hard to say if you will have head retention problems. Depends on your process. I use carapils and wheat as a crutch in this area.

I really don't get too worked up about the foam on the porter, but I would like to see it last a LITTLE longer than it does.

thenbagis said:

alcibiades-

I looked a little closer at the style guide and you're right. The range they give is 18-35, so I probably was a little high, especially if I want to get the coffee & chocolate aroma/flavor. Maybe I should cut out the aroma (15min) and some of the flavor (30min) and let the malt aromas/flavors come out more?

Maybe do .5 oz of the Kent Golding at 30 min. That'll end up about 26 IBU according to my calcs.

Click to expand...

good question....I think you're right, cutting out some of the later hops makes sense in a mocha porter if you want the malt flavor/aroma to shine. I would also cut a little bit of the bittering hops, just because you might get an overpowering bitterness on the backend too with a full ounce of NB and only 1.048 gravity. I think a final IBU around 23 would be perfect.

so, newbie question then... Since you buy hops in 1 oz increments, how do you store extra hops? freezer in a zip loc bag?

that will work. don't let them sit around for months like that, but for short term storage, put them in a zip-lock, remove as much air from the bag as possible, and put in the freezer.

(I own a foodsaver vacuum thingy, specifically for keeping brewing incredients fresh and marinading meat)

one trick is to put the hops in a zip lock bag, zip it until there is about an inch left to go, "pop" open the corner a bit and put your mouth up to the opening. Then suck in the air and press the remainder of the bag sealed as youre doing it. It creates a mini vacuum seal if you do it right.

...don't ask me how I know this.

Thanks, folks...

This is where I'm at now... I'm going to stick with the full 1 oz of NB, so that I get pretty much just the bitterness for balance. But I'm definitely cutting back on the flavor and aroma hops to cut down the IBUs/overall bitterness and in an attempt to let the malt flavors/aromas come out more.

Malts:
Light DME 5 lb
Caramel 60L 1lb
Coffee Malt 0.5lb
Chocolate Malt 0.5lb

Hops:
Northern Brewer Pellets (8.1%) 1oz @60
Kent Golding Pellets (4.5%) 0.25oz @30

Yeast:a
Safale S-04

Details:
OG: 1.047
IBU: 24

I'm going to sleep on it, now...

got rid of the black patent? boo....

i've never used coffee malt, tho. i don't know what a coffee/black patent combo would give.

motobrewer-

I keep going back and forth... I was reading Austin Homebrew's website and their description says it's primarily for color and reducing the chocolate flavors from chocolate malt. They make it sound as though black patent has a neutral flavor and tones down other malts. Not sure I want that. I may add it back in, but in a very small amount.. 2 oz?

Black patent definately has a flavor, and many people find it unpleasant.

Patent is often used to just color a beer darker. I did this recently on a pale ale to make it more amber in color. Just an oz or two will add a lot of color.

If you get up at 4oz or more, you start to taste the patent. I'm betting (for me) that I would find a beer made with 1 lb of it to be undrinkable.

well, here's what I did about a month ago for a robust porter:

1.00 lb DME Golden Light (Briess) (4.0 SRM)
6.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
2.50 lb Munich Malt (10.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) -Used Simpsons Black Malt
0.50 lb Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
1.50 oz Goldings, US [4.60 %] (60 min)
0.50 oz Williamette [4.60 %] (20 min)
0.50 oz Williamette [4.60 %] (15 min)
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min)
1.25 tsp Wyeast Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min)
2 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001)

1.050, it was around 1.012 after 10 days, haven't checked since.

So, I used a 1/2 lb each of black patent and chocolate. It's still in the primary, so I can't give any final taste details, but the hydrometer readings were pretty darn good.

also, about your gravity: if you're shooting for 5 gallons in the fermentor, with 5 pounds of DME, that will be around 45. extract has a ppg of 45, so (45*5lb) / (5 gal) = 45.

i know beersmith will like to give some points for steeping grains, but in my infinite wisdom of 4 total batches, this hasn't really been the case, but YMMV. so, if you were hoping for 49-50, settled for 47, you might be disappointed to find 45.

motobrewer-

Good to know about the gravity increase from steeping. I am using my own spreadsheet that uses the formula's from "How to Brew" and those formulas definitely give some credit for steeping grains. Maybe I'll bump my extract up to 5.5 or 6 pounds and add a little extra hops accordingly (for balance and decreased utilization).

Thanks for the input.

easy way to do it is after you steep, make sure you have 5 gal in the kettle, and just take a reading after you get your extract in and thoroughly dissolved. then you can calculate if you need more.

make sure to adjust the reading for temp. and don't put your hydrometer in 170F wort

well... I'm doing a partial boil, but I calculate the SG for the partial boil, in additional to the "batch" SG (or rather just OG).

right. beersmith will do all this for you, it's a great app. otherwise, the math isn't that hard.

I'm an engineer or rather just an excel junkie and enjoy setting up an excel spreadsheet to do the math.


The only math I haven't included yet is SRM, but it looked like the calculations are a little tough when using extract...

i'm an engineer as well, thus I am extremely lazy

I'd drop the patent to 2 oz if you want mocha and not robust; and, put 8 oz of malto-dextrine in the boil w/ 20 minutes left. it will give the beer more body as it is ~90% unfermentable by the yeast.
http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/product/0101685/malto-dextrin-8-oz-package

I'm intrigued by the idea of adding malto-dextrin. I may try that. Are there any tips/tricks/warnings, I should know?

thenbagis said:

I'm intrigued by the idea of adding malto-dextrin. I may try that. Are there any tips/tricks/warnings, I should know?

Click to expand...

ha ha. no. it is just white powder added 20 minutes before the boil ends. Well, ok: don't cut yourself with scissors opening the packet.

I'll watch out for the scissors... I need to ask mom if I can use them

Thanks for the help!

ah, brown porter...

yeah i wouldn't use 1/2 lb of black in a brown porter. I don't drink many browns, so I usually think robust whenever I hear "porter"

i think 2-4oz would still fit nicely

midfielder5 said:

ha ha. no. it is just white powder added 20 minutes before the boil ends. Well, ok: don't cut yourself with scissors opening the packet.

Click to expand...

Haha- My friend cut his thumb on the cardboard beer bottle box and must have nicked the vein, bled like a pig and the cut was over an inch long. Who knew the true hidden dangers of Homebrewing. I'm gonna sell Helmuts on here- :fro: