Electric brewery plans - need help

Tiber_Brew said:

... I'm anxious to get back to this project, so I will be giving P-J another call soon and taking more pictures as I go.

Click to expand...

I'd really like to talk with you on your progress. I think you are going to have an awesome system.

Thanks for the update.

If you are moving towards a touch screen application on a pc let me know and maybe we could convert the Java and SQL app I have to C#. It handles the brewing side from recipe build to fermentation temperature control, hardware from sensor setup through PID loop tuning and alarms, data storage from ingredient tables to process data logging and graphing. I have had a lot of time on my hands and have spent it incorporating all the bells and whistles I can think of in a single package, the bummer is it is in Java, it might run on any platform but it is nearly impossible to reign in the number of classes and memory use like other programming languages. After looking for and trying most all of the tricks I can find it runs in about 30 meg stack and overhead, and 30 additional meg of native code that I can not seem to control.

tedpeer said:

Isle Royale? You're forgiven.

Click to expand...

Thanks; I knew someone would understand.

TB

P-J said:

I'd really like to talk with you on your progress. I think you are going to have an awesome system.

Thanks for the update.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Paul. I'm looking forward to getting the project back on track.

Talk to you soon,
TB

I ordered a few goodies recently. Will post pics when they come. I've got two pumps, 1/2" fittings, and some dip tubes coming.

I'm thinking about picking up those camlock QD's too.

I dropped the ball these past couple days on contacting Paul about a slight modification in the wiring. Once we get squared away on that, I should be moving forward on the control panel on top of getting the rig itself setup.

More to come, I promise!
TB

Hey,
I'm still up waiting on your call.

Lets talk.

(I see you are still on line)

Ok. After talking things out, a couple of modifications have been implemented to the wiring plan.
It's now using 4500W elements and a EPO kill switch (N.O. momentary contact push button switch) has been incorporated.



(click on the image for a full size diagram)

I'm waiting for a few components in the mail, then I'll draft a hole pattern for the enclosure in CAD and have it machined. Check the fit with the components, then get it painted and labeled, and then start wiring.

Lots of goodies came to my door today, but apparently they couldn't leave it at my door. So now I have to go pick it up from the post office. Seriously, WTF do we pay shipping for if I have to go pick it up?

Updates w/ pictures coming...

Holy Cow, this is EXACTLY what I need!
Only difference is I will run a 2000w RIMS in my MT. I assume thats not difficult to add?

What an awesome thread. Thanks for sharing your time and knowlage guys.
I'm a firm believer in the 'Pay it forward' theme. But, I'm workin from a pretty big deficit on here. Not used to takin more from the table than I bring.

Layne said:

Holy Cow, this is EXACTLY what I need!
Only difference is I will run a 2000w RIMS in my MT. I assume thats not difficult to add?

What an awesome thread. Thanks for sharing your time and knowlage guys.
I'm a firm believer in the 'Pay it forward' theme. But, I'm workin from a pretty big deficit on here. Not used to takin more from the table than I bring.

Click to expand...

Hey, good, I'm glad you can benefit from this thread too. You should start a thread for your system build cause I'd really like to see it. Good luck

Will do!

Got some more goodies.

I'll edit the OP to incorporate the parts and cost.

1/2" stainless fittings and valves, sight glasses, and a couple pumps. Oh, and two NPS nuts for the elements.







Elements are on the way.

TiberneedsabrewstandBrew

lookin good lookin good

Ok, how does the PID get the actual temp reading. Am I missing something?

When you wire your elements you might consider this method:



It's simply a 'gem' box soldered to the keg with a green wire ground soldered in place as well.



The cover plate has a flush mount plug installed in it. This way you can disconnect the power cord from the kettle for cleanup.

The line just to the right of the power box is the temp probe held within a thermal well.

Layne said:

Ok, how does the PID get the actual temp reading. Am I missing something?

Click to expand...

The PIDs use temperature sensors that are places in the kettles. The sensors can be mounted differently depending on your choices. In the systems that I've built, I use thermal wells.

My 'RIMS in a toolbox' is set up that way, but I did not see it in the schematic in this thread.
Or did I overlook something? Electronics is not my strong suit.

Layne said:

My 'RIMS in a toolbox' is set up that way, but I did not see it in the schematic in this thread.
Or did I overlook something? Electronics is not my strong suit.

Click to expand...

The PID temp probe info is illustrated on the PID diagram:



Your install is really dependent on you probe type and on the mounting method for it.

I hope this helps you.

Parts list updated in OP

My enclosure is ready to be milled for the hole layout now!

A friend of mine runs a machine shop locally. He's going to help me mill out the holes and cutouts. I made a detail drawing in Unigraphics NX 4.0 since I had access to that anyway.

Once done, I'll sand/paint it, then get started wiring it.

Also picked up another Sanke keg in good condition today. Things are moving along...

Tiber_Brew said:

My enclosure is ready to be milled for the hole layout now! ...

Click to expand...

Awesome! I'm really interested in your build and how things turn out for you. As you know, I'm in your corner cheering you on.

Paul

Got my two Camco 4500W ULD elements today from www.plumbingsupply.com. They even threw in a mini bag of Jelly Belly's.

Parts list in OP updated.

TB

We milled out my enclosure today!

I didn't take any pictures of the process, but we had fun doing it. Took about 4 hours with plenty of BS-ing and taking our time.

I'll take some pictures of the milled box and post 'em up when I get a chance.

TB

Tiber_Brew said:

We milled out my enclosure today!

I didn't take any pictures of the process, but we had fun doing it. Took about 4 hours with plenty of BS-ing and taking our time.

I'll take some pictures of the milled box and post 'em up when I get a chance.

TB

Click to expand...

Can't wait!

P-J said:

This link will take you to an excellent wire gage chart: cerrowire.com
If you intend to use crimp on connectors, solder the crimped connection after crimping. This is important on the high current lines (heating element connections for example). Trust me on this one, it will save you a lot of grief down the road.

Click to expand...

I've done some marine wiring and you can do either soldering or crimping but NEVER combine them. I thought is was a great combination as all marine wiring comes tinned, but in fact it will make the connection weaker. Don't ask me for the details at this moment but if have seen the guidelines from the connectors years ago.

renevdb said:

I've done some marine wiring and you can do either soldering or crimping but NEVER combine them. I thought is was a great combination as all marine wiring comes tinned, but in fact it will make the connection weaker. Don't ask me for the details at this moment but if have seen the guidelines from the connectors years ago.

Click to expand...

I don't mean to come across in a negative way, but you throw out a bit of info and then say don't ask.
The issue you are talking about is "Marine Wiring", i.e. a salt water environment where the wires are stranded and tinned.

I'll still do it my way (non marine application) knowing that the connections I make are secure and electrically sound.

P-J, Not negative at all. I done the wiring 15 years ago. The things I remember are the mechanical strength and corrosion. After soldering the strands are not flexible anymore creating a weak spot and the heating changes the insulation attracting moisture. Probably in most applications this is not a problem, just wanted to make people aware that crimping, using a good crimper, makes a very good connection not requiring soldering.

I took some pictures last night of the enclosure and me using my knockout punch.

It's my wife and I's anniversary, so we're going out of town this weekend (like now-ish). I don't have time to post the images now, but will when I get back, I promise!

Prost,
TibertornbetweenmytwolovesBrew

Tiber,
This looks like a ton of work and I want to thank you for documenting everything especially the wiring. I do have a couple of questions if you or anyone on the site that has time.

1. I cant find the link to the EPO details. I'm either blind or have lost my mind because I remember looking at a picture of how to wire it complete with the part numbers but cant find it anywhere. Any chance you could include that info in your thread or point me to it if I really have lost my mind?


2. I just ordered the BCS controller for my new system... I assume I could eliminate switches 3-6 and obviously the PID unless i really wanted a physical button to turn them on and off with correct/opinions?

3. Could you tell me what DIN mounting solution you picked. I'm a little confused on this concept ( of at least the parts to build) but like the idea of a clean,easy to wire box.

Thanks again for the great information.

I'll post pics and parts list as mine comes together also.

Walker (if you're still here), how did you run your TC or RTD wires through your enclosure? Do you have any pictures of that?

Thanks,
TB

Tiber_Brew said:

Walker (if you're still here), how did you run your TC or RTD wires through your enclosure? Do you have any pictures of that?

Thanks,
TB

Click to expand...

I don't recall what Walker used - But I'm either going to use the Auber connectors, or panel mount XLR jacks.

Obviously not Walker.
I'd suggest that you run your sensor wiring through braid that is grounded within your enclosure to shield it from any power induction. Just be sure to green wire ground it on one end only to form a proper shield.
The braid is something like this:



You could carefully strip some coax cable to secure a decent length of braid to do the job.

I think I might do a combination of those panel mounts from Auber like sweetsounds, and a braided shield like P-J suggested.

My current RTD sensors have those same disconnects, but it's right at the probe. Something further up the wire for the panel would be nice too.

I don't necessarily need anything to disconnect at the panel (it would actually be on the side) since I already have a disconnect at the probe. I just want something to keep the wire from getting cut and/or tugging on the PID and causing problems.

Thanks guys.

As promised, here are some pictures of my progress.

Here is the milled front panel. The round holes are 10mm holes for the knockout punch.


Here are the openings and screw holes for the 30amp outlets:


...and for the 120V outlets:


Here's the punch in place:


Using the punch:


That punch worked very well. I was surprised at how easy it was to use.


More to come...

Test fitting all the mounted components now. Everything fits well. I had to file off the radii from the mill for the PIDs to fit properly. It likes a nice square corner.

Some shots:








The 120V outlet openings worked out pretty nicely:


Proposed inside layout of the rest of the components:


Next up:
1. Figure out how to route the RTD wires out of the box
2. Sand and paint the enclosure
3. Wire the enclosure
4. Get started on the stand and hacking up my purdy kegs

Hope you all like it,
TB

i have the exact same box as you. pretty much identical. i just got mine all wired up and water tested last night for leaks. what i did was install those omega panel mounts from auber. i used tc's instead of rtd's tho. I mounted the omega's right above the 240 outlets.

rianrt said:

i have the exact same box as you. pretty much identical. i just got mine all wired up and water tested last night for leaks. what i did was install those omega panel mounts from auber. i used tc's instead of rtd's tho. I mounted the omega's right above the 240 outlets.

Click to expand...

Wait, you "water tested" your box "for leaks"?

Do you have any pictures of your box? What's your setup?

I ended up buying a couple of those panel mount RTD connectors, and I was going to mount mine above the 240V outlets.

TB

i mean i was testing the box to make sure everything works. i was water testing the pots to check for leaks. i built the same thing that you are building.
http://yfrog.com/3d0821001437aj
http://yfrog.com/n90821001437j
http://yfrog.com/my0821001438j
http://yfrog.com/6z0821001435aj
http://yfrog.com/mr0821001435j
http://yfrog.com/j00821001434aj
http://yfrog.com/9d0821001434j

sorry for the links. didn't have another way to get them to you without email.
rian

Looking good!

rianrt said:

i mean i was testing the box to make sure everything works. i was water testing the pots to check for leaks. i built the same thing that you are building.
http://yfrog.com/3d0821001437aj
http://yfrog.com/n90821001437j
http://yfrog.com/my0821001438j
http://yfrog.com/6z0821001435aj
http://yfrog.com/mr0821001435j
http://yfrog.com/j00821001434aj
http://yfrog.com/9d0821001434j

sorry for the links. didn't have another way to get them to you without email.
rian

Click to expand...

Wow, that is really similar to my plan. Did you follow this thread for that, or is this just coincidence? Nice wiring job, by the way.


TB