Ever feel uncomfortable besting your favorite beer with your homebrew?

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Rev2010

Rev2010

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I've been beer connoisseuring for just over 12 years now. I only started homebrewing in January thanks to the wife's X-mas gift and I am just doing extract right now. So no AG or partial mashes just yet.... but I've already bested my favorite beer ever, Franziskaner, and it just feels strange. I made 3 of my own recipe hefeweizens, each a bit different. They're all awesome but I like number 2 out of them the best. It's better than Franziskaner IMO, without a doubt. I've been in love with Franziskaner for over 11 years. I buy it by the case and am drinking it right now, since my aforementioned beer will hit 3 weeks in the bottle this weekend. And the others are also amazing with tons of flavor.

I also brewed Northern's Amber Ale earlier on and changed up the hops a bit to ease the IBU's. I used 1oz Cascade for the full boil and 2oz of Crystal - 1oz at 30 minutes and 1oz at one minute. It came out amazing! It was definitely better than my two favorite amber ales. So there too the homebrew bested my favorites.

Part of the reason I feel weird is because this is all with extract. I haven't even touched all-grain yet, but will some day in the future. For my house right now I'm finding extract to be the most reasonable brewing method. But regardless... it makes me feel.... shall I say a bit weird? Maybe denial? Can't possibly be better than my absolute favorite beer that is *professionally brewed" can it? I mean, it's just an extract brew right? But there's no denying I do think these two I mentioned beat my favorites, and it's not because it's mine. Trust me on that... if they sucked I would completely admit it outright.

I got two belgian wit's going, self designed recipes, and I'm curious how they'll do. My favorite wit so far has been Hoegaarden, but NOT the Hoegaarden in the regular 11.2oz bottles. When the wife and I started going to England we would get them in the corked bottles and they were amazing!!! Last two trips we couldn't find them anymore. Something about those corked bottles were just way better. Anyhow, we'll see how mine come out.

Anyone else ever have a weird kind of feeling when besting your favorite?


Rev.
 
I rarely think I do though I tend to brew things that I can't get great fresh examples of.

I did just sample the IIPA that is going to NHC on Monday morning and even undercarbonated and cold, the hop aroma was insane. I've never had PtE from the bright tank (which would be the equivalent) but this may be the most intense hop aroma I have ever experienced, including PtY. I think this is an improvement over last year's which placed first in the two competitions it was entered in.
 
I am loving how my beers taste.

I have drank a lot of craft brews but me beers taste every bit as good as the beers that cost me. 8-9$ a six pack.

Homebrew rocks!!!!!
 
Your Franziskaner might not be the best example of the style you have had, just because of the importing process. Hefe's are supposed to be drank relatively fresh and the sooner (given proper carbonation) the better, from what I have heard. Perhaps a Franziskaner fresh on draft in Germany would be much closer to your homebrew.

Also I think when you make it and invest the blood, sweat, and tears it improves the taste exponentially.
 
No. I really enjoy comparing my homebrew side by side with a commercial beer. Especially when my wife or friends say they like mine better. I also like when they say "You made this?"

NRS
 
I am still brewing extract kits, so I have far to go. However, many of the beers I taste I think to myself "If I was brewing this, I would like more of 'x'." If I ever get good enough to achieve that, I'd like to think I would be "Oh yeah, that's right!"

That been said, I think Hopslam and Torpedo IPA would be hard to improve...
 
beergolf said:
I am loving how my beers taste.

I have drank a lot of craft brews but me beers taste every bit as good as the beers that cost me. 8-9$ a six pack.

Homebrew rocks!!!!!
Click to expand...


Same for me. I sometimes buy some craft brew to taste and often I end up reaching for my brew instead.
 
It is always a good feeling to have created a great beer. To answer your question of "Do I feel uncomfortable beating out my favy beer with one I made?" is No. I feel just fine, in most cases of this, I would feel down right happy about having created such a great beer. I recently did a DFH 90 min clone and I really liked mine better than the original. This makes me really happy since we are loosing DFH distro here in WI...

This biggest question is "Can you repeat it?" I understand that you will not be able to answer this until you try it but that is a HUGE milestone to go from a snowflake to a repeatable process, even with extract.

I also will say that great beers can be made with extract but it does have it's limits. When you are ready to give it a go, I suggest checking out the Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics) sticky in the beginners section. The reason people normally head to AG is for greater control and it is less expensive in almost all cases. It is not as hard as people would have you believe either. That being said I would take a great extract brew over a crappy AG one any day lol.
 
I haven't felt bad about it yet, rather more of a beer-peer to better brewers. As NPK said when I'm drinking commercial examples of a style I take mental notes on how my example compares to big breweries. For example, I had 2 IPA's last nite at the bar- Southern Tier IPA and Harpoon IPA. The Tier had more aroma, more bitter, and no floral aroma or flavor. The Harpoon was drier, floral aroma, and towards the end very little to no hop flavor. My stuff is somewhere in the middle, but I noticed what I'd change about all three: my ideal would be a drier Southern Tier with floral aroma (maybe Amarillo or Centennial). Next time I brew an IPA that's probably what I'll do. Kyle
 
edecambra said:
Your Franziskaner might not be the best example of the style you have had, just because of the importing process. Hefe's are supposed to be drank relatively fresh and the sooner (given proper carbonation) the better, from what I have heard. Perhaps a Franziskaner fresh on draft in Germany would be much closer to your homebrew.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I've been to Germany a dozen times and have had pure fresh Franziskaner on tap and in bottles there hundreds of times. I've also had a ridiculous number of other German hefeweizens and it just happens Franziskaner is my favorite.

I also don't buy them in the green bottles here, only the brown 500ml bottles and to me they taste just like the one's I get in Germany.


Rev.
 
If you like Hoegaarden, have you tried Celis White, or Allagash White? Most people consider them some of the best examples of the style you can get here.
 
Homercidal said:
If you like Hoegaarden, have you tried Celis White, or Allagash White? Most people consider them some of the best examples of the style you can get here.
Click to expand...

Yes many times. Celis White is amazing as is everything I've had from Allagash (had their white many times). I also know about Pierre Celis and a bit about his history. The thing though is there was just something magical about the Hoegaarden in the corked bottles. Even the color was more of an orange hue than the usual light yellow.

On a separate note, I had a hunch this thread would get comments questioning my tastes or experience. I just want to reiterate, I've been beer connoisseuring for 12 years now. I've traveled all over the world and extensively throughout Europe. I've not hit Belgium yet, closest was Luxembourg, but I am experienced with the beer abroad and the many variants within the styles.

This thread is more about the denial feeling, like "This couldn't be possible... an extract beer that I made being better than a professional beer with long history drank by millions?" kind of thing. That's all. I'm sure many others would disagree that my beer is better, I'm not saying it universally is at all. Just that my personal favorite beer has been bested solely in my opinion by one of the one's I made. For me it's a strange feeling for sure :)


Rev.
 
The corked bottle Hoegaarden is probably Hoegaarden Grand Cru. My wife used to live in Australia and had it there and raved about it. I had it in Canada about 3 years ago (in Montreal and a moules et frites place) and it was very good.

Point being, you can get it in Canada.
 
remilard said:
The corked bottle Hoegaarden is probably Hoegaarden Grand Cru. My wife used to live in Australia and had it there and raved about it. I had it in Canada about 3 years ago (in Montreal and a moules et frites place) and it was very good.

Point being, you can get it in Canada.
Click to expand...

Nah, it's not Grand Cru, I've had that a number of times and all bottles are clearly labeled Grand Cru. I still have the empty corked Hoegaarden bottle in my on-display beer bottle collection at home.


Rev.
 
Zamial said:
It is always a good feeling to have created a great beer. To answer your question of "Do I feel uncomfortable beating out my favy beer with one I made?" is No. I feel just fine, in most cases of this, I would feel down right happy about having created such a great beer. I recently did a DFH 90 min clone and I really liked mine better than the original. This makes me really happy since we are loosing DFH distro here in WI...

This biggest question is "Can you repeat it?" I understand that you will not be able to answer this until you try it but that is a HUGE milestone to go from a snowflake to a repeatable process, even with extract.

I also will say that great beers can be made with extract but it does have it's limits. When you are ready to give it a go, I suggest checking out the Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics) sticky in the beginners section. The reason people normally head to AG is for greater control and it is less expensive in almost all cases. It is not as hard as people would have you believe either. That being said I would take a great extract brew over a crappy AG one any day lol.
Click to expand...

When are they stopping distro for DFH in Wisconsin? I was in Hudson a couple weeks ago to pick up some O'so Hopdinger and New Glarus Moonman. Stopped by 5 liquor stores and all were sold out of DFH which distro to each store that Wednesday.. I went on a Saturday.

If they are stopping distro in Wisc, I assume they won't distro to MN anytime soon. Oh well, we have Surly!
 
So, you've been brewing since January and you have already bested three commercial breweries? You are either awesome, or you have beautiful baby syndrome.:)


_
 
wildwest450 said:
So, you've been brewing since January and you have already bested three commercial breweries? You are either awesome, or you have beautiful baby syndrome.:)
Click to expand...

Three? No, I said I bested my favorite hefe and that the Amber Ale I brewed from northernbrewer was also better than my two favorite Amber Ales. I didn't come up with the recipe for the amber so I don't take any credit for that - just said I liked it better. I was primarily talking about my top favorite beer. And no, I'm not just feeling this way because I made it. I already noted that if it were not better I would not be saying this. But go on and think me a liar if you'd like.


Rev.
 
I've done blind taste testing of a couple of my clones against the original, and usually my version prevails. The biggest one was yooper's dead guy clone against the original. It would win hands down, while my bell's amber clone would do about 50-50.

I think in a well made homebrew (either Extract OR Ag, btw, both clones were extract w/grains,) FRESHNESS is the issue that wins out. Homebrew just has a fresher taste than something that's travelled.

It may not ACTUALLY be better, but to the taster it is perceived as such. In fact one person said that my DG Clone tasted like they thought Dead Guy SHOULD taste like. Which I think was that it just was fresher and less travelled than the store bought version

That might be why, living in Michigan and pretty close to bell's, why going against a bell's product I only win half the time, Bell's doesn't travel far and has a higher turnover in metro detroit then Rogue does.

I've noticed the same thing in regional wines versus wines that travel a distance to get to us. Wines from local wineries just have a brightness, and freshness, that is missing with wines that may be made for.
 
I've only bested good beer once or twice. Maybe I feel like I still have more to learn and things to do better. I may be assuming that there HAS to be SOMETHING wrong with my beer!

I'm still trying to nail down a perfect wit recipe. I have brewed several and one or two were very good, but I try other things and see if I can improve. I don't brew enough for consistency in any recipe to factor in.
 
Rev2010 said:
And no, I'm not just feeling this way because I made it. I already noted that if it were not better I would not be saying this. But go on and think me a liar if you'd like.
Click to expand...

Think you a liar, no. If you like your beer that's all that is important. Brew on.


_
 
I dunno, I never look at beer in a hierarchical manner. There are good brews, ok brews, and bad brews. Commercial beers and my home-brews have both spanned all three categories, but I can't say there is a #1 or "favorite" beer in ether group.
 
It sounds like you're really enjoying this hobby. No need to rush the partials or AG. Enjoy your time and beer, then move in whatever direction you feel comfortable with. I understand where you're going with this, because it's true! People can really make great beer. I've been drinking a lot of commercial pumpkin beers this past fall and most of them didn't jive well with me. My wife told a client of hers that I homebrew...I guess her son does too, and long story short I got one of his pumpkin beers. It was great and definitely better than more than a few commercial versions.
 
Teromous said:
It sounds like you're really enjoying this hobby. No need to rush the partials or AG. Enjoy your time and beer, then move in whatever direction you feel comfortable with
Click to expand...

Yeah I tend to come out of the gate running :) Currently at 41 gallons brewed since I started - 41 because the first was a Cooper's 6 gallon kit. After that I've been doing 5 gallon recipes/batches.


Rev.
 
IMO, Franziskaner is by far the king of Hefeweizens. If I could top that beer, I'd feel pretty damned pleased with myself!

On St Paddy's day, I did blind tasters with my Guinness clone vs. the real thing, and 7 people chose mine out of 8! It was an awesome feeling!

Edit: Oh, and one of the best barleywines I've ever had was an extract brewed 6 month old BW that an employee at the LHBS brewed. Making good beer isn't the hard part, it's making a LOT of beer and making ALL of it good!
 
Rev2010 said:
I've been beer connoisseuring for just over 12 years now. I only started homebrewing in January thanks to the wife's X-mas gift and I am just doing extract right now. So no AG or partial mashes just yet.... but I've already bested my favorite beer ever, Franziskaner, and it just feels strange. I made 3 of my own recipe hefeweizens, each a bit different. They're all awesome but I like number 2 out of them the best. It's better than Franziskaner IMO, without a doubt. I've been in love with Franziskaner for over 11 years. I buy it by the case and am drinking it right now, since my aforementioned beer will hit 3 weeks in the bottle this weekend. And the others are also amazing with tons of flavor.

I also brewed Northern's Amber Ale earlier on and changed up the hops a bit to ease the IBU's. I used 1oz Cascade for the full boil and 2oz of Crystal - 1oz at 30 minutes and 1oz at one minute. It came out amazing! It was definitely better than my two favorite amber ales. So there too the homebrew bested my favorites.

Part of the reason I feel weird is because this is all with extract. I haven't even touched all-grain yet, but will some day in the future. For my house right now I'm finding extract to be the most reasonable brewing method. But regardless... it makes me feel.... shall I say a bit weird? Maybe denial? Can't possibly be better than my absolute favorite beer that is *professionally brewed" can it? I mean, it's just an extract brew right? But there's no denying I do think these two I mentioned beat my favorites, and it's not because it's mine. Trust me on that... if they sucked I would completely admit it outright.

I got two belgian wit's going, self designed recipes, and I'm curious how they'll do. My favorite wit so far has been Hoegaarden, but NOT the Hoegaarden in the regular 11.2oz bottles. When the wife and I started going to England we would get them in the corked bottles and they were amazing!!! Last two trips we couldn't find them anymore. Something about those corked bottles were just way better. Anyhow, we'll see how mine come out.

Anyone else ever have a weird kind of feeling when besting your favorite?


Rev.
Click to expand...

I'm impressed with your ability to rack up over 500 posts in three months!
 
Rev2010 said:
Three? No, I said I bested my favorite hefe and that the Amber Ale I brewed from northernbrewer was also better than my two favorite Amber Ales. I didn't come up with the recipe for the amber so I don't take any credit for that - just said I liked it better. I was primarily talking about my top favorite beer. And no, I'm not just feeling this way because I made it. I already noted that if it were not better I would not be saying this. But go on and think me a liar if you'd like.


Rev.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's calling you a liar...just that there might be a subjectivity to the tasting. If a person thinks their baby is the cutest...they aren't lying, they really believe it.

I've had the same thing with preferring some of my beers to commercial beers. I think Revvy is right...a lot of it has to do with freshness.

Bottom line: that's awesome you're making great beer...you're tastes are expanding...you're contributing to the homebrewing community. Cheers to you my friend. :mug:
 
sudsmcgee said:
I'm impressed with your ability to rack up over 500 posts in three months!
Click to expand...

Ouch, that stings. I'm on forums a lot and working IT all day I often work at my desk. Besides, Uniondr has me beat and I think he signed on here a month after ;P


Rev.
 
I didn't exactly best my favorite beer, because I didn't really have a favorite beer. Actually I never loved beer before we started this homebrew adventure. But you bet your sweet bippy I do now! I like our homebrew far more than I've ever liked commercial beer, and I've discovered different styles that I've never had before by picking out recipes that sound good from the description. Then I often go and buy an example of that beer from our local beer & wine store. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't. It's a whole new world for me!
 
sudsmcgee said:
I'm impressed with your ability to rack up over 500 posts in three months!
Click to expand...

Come to think of it, looking at the duration it's about 6 posts a day - not much for an active user. I suppose you could also make fun of Revvy.


Rev.
 
Besting a beer is subjective. I have brewed two Spotted Cow clones, and most have said my second is better. It does make me happy, but I am trying to brew Spotted Cow. I have three more recipes I am going to try. I want to learn how to control what I brew. I feel that I am far from that. After brewing the next three Spotted Cow Clones, I may go back to the second recipe, but I am looking for control. I think that with control, I will be able to best all of my favorite beers. The problem is that I am a noob, and not a chemist or engineer or whatever it takes to be diligent enough to not make the mistakes I do. But, I like my beer.
 
I think it is outstanding when I best a comercial brew. I was at a brew pub over the weekend that I have been to a few times over the years. I used to love their beers. I have not been there since I started brewing. We went to Savannah with intentions of visiting several times through out the weekend. First night there I ordered the sampler of all their beers. I found myself thinking my beers beat all of the beers I was served. I did not order another one from them that night and did not return the entire weekend.
 
That's the best part about homebrewing. You can design a beer to taste how you want it. So yeah... I like my beers over most all commercial beer.
 
I have noticed a couple of things since I started brewing...

I usually don't try to clone beers but I brew in styles that I like. I definitely like many of my homebrews better than the average (and some above average) commercial versions of the styles. I agree with Revvy that freshness is a big part of it, but so is the complexity of flavor. There are a couple of small brewpubs in the Hill Country that make pretty good beer but I have definitely become less impressed as my brewing experience grows. They have to brew, for the most part, for the lower if not lowest common denominator of beer consumers. So I'm not surprised that their beers have become somewhat simplistic to my palette.

On the other hand, more popular brewers with a larger market like Freetail in San Antonio can experiment a little more and I am constantly impressed by many of their offerings. I have also found myself buying better commercial beers. I tend to go for 22's and 750's of specialty beers rather than 6-packs of common brews to push my tastes and keep out in front of my brewing. These beers usually have far more of the complexity and depth that I strive for in my own concoctions.

Finally, I like to drink good beer and I can't afford to drink what I like going commercial. I love my beer but continue to seek out commercial examples that I want to approximate. I have become enamored with so many styles ranging from great tasting session beers to Belgians of all varieties to over the top barleywines and IIPA's that I am happy brewing a tasty version of each style and keep seeking inspiration to better my recipes.

Congrats on surpassing your favorite commercial brew, but don't forget to enjoy the journey :mug:
 
TANSTAAFB said:
Congrats on surpassing your favorite commercial brew, but don't forget to enjoy the journey :mug:
Click to expand...

Thanks man, your post was very kind natured and encouraging! Definitely the attitude that lends a refreshing air.

In regard to your mention of how you're always impressed by Freetail's brews - I've never had their beer but I know what you're referring to. About a week ago I almost created a thread about how amazing Ommegang is. I've been drinking their beer since I first started beer connoisseuring 12 years ago and there's not a bottle I open that I am not amazed by. That week I'd bought a collector/gift set, whatever you wanna call it, that had two bottles I've had many times before as well as their Belgian Pale Ale which I've never tried. It was amazing! Even the wife, that is not into that style of beer, tasted it and said, "God damn... is everything Ommegang does amazing??? I love this beer". I hope that one day I can come 1/10th within their awesomeness.


Rev.
 
The point of home brewing is brewing what you like right so that's great. As long as you enjoy your beer over whatever is available to you then you're doing it right.

However... you enjoying your beer more is different than it being better. There might be some things that a more experienced brewer or even a supertaster can pickup on that you can't. Entering competitions is a great way to find out how good your palette/beer is.
 
I think in evaluating my own beer I'm tougher on myself than anyone else is. I've brewed beers that I think are good but don't live up the commercial beer they are suppose to be copying only to have my friends tell me they like mine better. I think when you invest so much into the beer you also know what you could have done differently and that drives you to keep trying to make it "perfect"
 

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