trub in stored yeast causes?

What is the problem with not cleaning your yeast well when harvesting? I keep my hops in a bag, I siphon over so not to get all the trub, and what is in the fermentor is not that dark. When I add boiled water, and shake it up, it all settles back in the same color from top to bottom.

What does the trub do in refrigerated yeast that will cause problems?

Nothing we just like clean yeast to pitch.

lou2row said:

What does the trub do in refrigerated yeast that will cause problems?

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Good question. I got 3rd place in a local BJCP competition with Jamil's Weizenbock. It was the third pitch of a pack of Wyeast 3068 in which I did not wash out the trub...Perhaps if I washed the yeast instead of just re pitched I would have gotten first place? I don't know...It was a 38 point beer....

This seems to be more of an issue when storing yeast over time
maybe the trub break down and make gradually worse conditions for yeast storage

Ive been lazy, and I dont really wash anymore. I just try to keep fermentation as clean as possible. Then after racking, I stir up whats left in the fermenter and pour it into a big sanitized jar. Then when the time comes to use some of it, I sanitize several smaller jars and split it up evenly, and make a starter. I havent had issues yet, but I'm pretty sure I know if there will be an issue if the starter doesnt ferment.

Ive been lazy, and I dont really wash anymore. I just try to keep fermentation as clean as possible. Then after racking, I stir up whats left in the fermenter and pour it into a big sanitized jar.

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I have started doing this also. I leave almost all the break material behind in the kettle. I usually have very little in the fermentor besides yeast.

Thanks guys. I didn't know if I was jeopardizing my brew, but couldn't see how. I make starters off my stored yeast, so I should catch any problem at that stage.

I wanted to add to this, because I am dealing with it tonight.
I've had this quart size mason jar filled with unwashed Pacman that was just scooped out from the bottom of the fermenter. It's pretty old, I'm guessing at least 4 months, maybe closer to 5 months:


I'll be brewing this weekend and I ran out of other yeast, so I'll be using this. I mixed it very well and poured most of it into several smaller sanitized mason jars. The rest I'll be adding to a starter as soon as it finishes cooling. I'll keep you up to date on how it ferments in the starter. I will be adding a touch of yeast nutrient as well, because it really wouldn't hurt to.

Nice. I just made a starter off of 2 and a half month old yeast slurry that was unwashed. it took right off within an hour or two. Brewing tomorrow. If it doesn't look good tomorrow I have a pack of dry US 05 to use.

Now I'm just trying to figure out why Mr malty told me only 10% of my yeast is viable???

i personally woke up 2 year old yeast slurry in a flip top bottle from a brewery i used to work at, and made a healty prop from that same yeast with trub and all, the trub is a source of nutrients for the yeast fatty acids and ammino's, although we seek the cleanest yeast possible, subsaquent starter help reduce dead cells/trub that could create phenols, so in theory make one starter, ferment it out, then make another etc. how much is a preference.

Now I'm just trying to figure out why Mr malty told me only 10% of my yeast is viable???

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Because only 10% was probably viable. He ran lots of tests and did the research to come up with those numbers by actually testing for viability. Your starter will still take off, but it won't be the same as fermenting with all fresh yeast. It will still make beer though.

So I have a question for everyone who does this. Lets say you have a mason jar of semi clean washed yeast that has been sitting in refrigeration for appx 2 months. I would think you would want to make a starter from some of that yeast before it is pitched. Does one pull about 10ml of yeast off of the bottom and add it to the starter OR make a starter with the whole mason jar of yeast? If you just use the 10ml, then do you then pitch the starter yeast AND the mason jar, or is the mason jar yeast just used for a starter culture?

MaynardX said:

So I have a question for everyone who does this. Lets say you have a mason jar of semi clean washed yeast that has been sitting in refrigeration for appx 2 months. I would think you would want to make a starter from some of that yeast before it is pitched. Does one pull about 10ml of yeast off of the bottom and add it to the starter OR make a starter with the whole mason jar of yeast? If you just use the 10ml, then do you then pitch the starter yeast AND the mason jar, or is the mason jar yeast just used for a starter culture?

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I use "semi-clean" yeast; instead of the full washing procedure, I dump some boiled water into the fermenter, shake it, let it rest for 20-30 minutes, and then pour the liquid off the top, leaving as much sludge behind as possible. What I end up with is a bout 0.5-1 cm of yeast and trub at the bottom of a mason jar.

When it comes time to use it, I pull the mason jar out of the fridge and let it warm up. When the starter is ready, I shake the jar and let it rest for 20-30 minutes, and then pour off the liquid, leaving as much of the sludge behind as possible.

When I pitch the starter... same deal; shake, wait 20-30 minutes, pour off the liquid.

This procedure has not failed me yet, regardless of the age of the yeast, or even how many beers it has brewed. In fact, qualitatively, the fermentations with re-pitched yeast are "healthier" than with liquid/dry yeast, even from a starter.

beninan said:

...I'll keep you up to date on how it ferments in the starter...

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1.6 liter starter with occasional shaking. Yeast that was unwashed and kept in the refrigerator for 4-5 months.
Day 1- No signs of activity.
Day 2- Vigorous Activity.
Day 3- Very little activity.
Pitched the whole thing into a batch today.

I regularly use unwashed saved yeast that old. Never had a problem. Ale and lager yeasts.

ChiechiBrouw said:

When it comes time to use it, I pull the mason jar out of the fridge and let it warm up. When the starter is ready, I shake the jar and let it rest for 20-30 minutes, and then pour off the liquid, leaving as much of the sludge behind as possible.
.

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You are not worried about too much of the yeast liquid watering down the starter? How big of a starter do you make with that amount of yeast w/ liquid? Does anyone else use this method?

MaynardX said:

You are not worried about too much of the yeast liquid watering down the starter? How big of a starter do you make with that amount of yeast w/ liquid? Does anyone else use this method?

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It depends on how much liquid I have on top of my yeast, but I usually don't worry about it too much. I usually do 1 ounce of DME per cup of water. If I think there's about 1 cup of liquid on top of the yeast, I'll just make a starter with an extra ounce of dry malt extract to offset what I'll be dumping in.

beninan said:

I wanted to add to this, because I am dealing with it tonight.
I've had this quart size mason jar filled with unwashed Pacman that was just scooped out from the bottom of the fermenter. It's pretty old, I'm guessing at least 4 months, maybe closer to 5 months:

I'll be brewing this weekend and I ran out of other yeast, so I'll be using this. I mixed it very well and poured most of it into several smaller sanitized mason jars. The rest I'll be adding to a starter as soon as it finishes cooling. I'll keep you up to date on how it ferments in the starter. I will be adding a touch of yeast nutrient as well, because it really wouldn't hurt to.

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Way old thread I know.

But I have a jar of unwashed yeast(very similar to the photo) and will be brewing this evening.
Fairly low gravity light ale. Can I decant the top layer of wort and pitch the middle layer directly into the cooled wort?

I can bring the yeast slurry to whatever temp I need. The yeast is only 3 weeks old.

Thanks

Yes, that's what I do frequently and has never caused a problem for me.

Just looking at it, I think that's MORE THAN ENOUGH yeast for a low gravity ale. Most everyone says overpitching is nearly impossible at the homebrew level, so I'd say throw it in and watch it do its thing.

You guys...it is SO much easier to build a larger starter than you need, then harvest the extra yeast from the starter. No washing necessary.

Dixon9717 said:

Yes, that's what I do frequently and has never caused a problem for me.

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+1 decant (or don't decant) and pitch

Yes decant as much liquid as possible and pitch yeast/ trub

Thanks. My time slot for brewing got bumped up due to the Holiday weekend and a graduation. I'll just take it out of fridge when I get home and let it warm up while I brew.