3 All-Grain Batches and I STILL can't figure this out

Hello all,

So here is my situation: I just transferred my 3rd all grain batch to the secondary and I have experienced yet again, a problem I've had with my previous 2 batches. When I open the primary after about a week of fermentation the smell is HORRENDOUS. Not some casual off flavor, but a strong, burn-your-nose astringent smell. It's really more of a feeling than a smell to be honest.

In the past I have made great extract and PM batches with no such problems.

So here isa bit of background here are the beers I've made that have turned out this way and what has changed in my process:

Beers:
oatmeal stout, english best bitter, Dogfish head IBA clone

Process:

I live somewhere new (willimantic, CT) I got a water report and the Cl levels are low and I don't see any chloramines listed, but I'm not ruling this out.

72qt cooler mash tun with ss braid (water heater supply line). lauters well but i think some flour material makes it into the kettle

I am now making yeast starters: just the usual technique, 1/2 cup DME per pint H2O, let go for 2 days prior to pitching.

Hope that's enough information. Any help is greatly appreciated, I'm tired of ruining beers. Ruined is relative though, i drink em' no one else will.

How does it taste?

Sounds like high concentrations of co2. No smell. Just burn. That's normal. Does it turn out okay after bottling or kegging?

Thanks for the quick reply jmo. the oatmeal stout did mellow out considerably, but i think it might have mostly been the stronger flavor profile of the beer masking some of the off flavor. The bitter however, was unbearable. Hopefully the IBA will mellow a bit as well. any other thoughts out there?

EDIT: Parker, it tastes...not as I would expect. there seems to be a bit of a hotness that I would normally attribute to fusel alcohols, but my fermentation temps have been tightly controlled.

give it time, opening up the fermenters after a week is too soon. Keep it on the cake for at least another week maybe 2. Let the yeast clean up a bit, these off tastes and hot beer will mellow out considerably if you let the finish their job.

ok, i will certainly give that a try. My only question is that if this is just a yeast issue, why have i never experienced it before with extract and PM batches?

jmo88 said:

Sounds like high concentrations of co2. No smell. Just burn. That's normal. Does it turn out okay after bottling or kegging?

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+5 It's almost certainly just the CO2 & assorted yeast byproduct fumes. Draw off a sample of the beer and check the gravity with a hydrometer and taste it then. It's still too early to really tell what the end product will taste like, but it should not be horrible. Might be some strange bitterness and odd flavor due to a lot of suspended yeast etc, but should also not be sour or anything that you would describe as horrendous. The gravity reading will give yoiu an indication of how far the fermentation has progressed. This not occurring with the extract could well be due to a different recipe, different yeast, different hops or most likely a different fermentaion temperature. Try to keep the lid closed and your nose out of the bucket for awhile longer. Hopefully you did not contaminate the beer when peeking at it. Fermenting beer likes to have some privacy while doing it's thing.

How are you cooling the wort after the boil?
What temperatures are you fermenting the beer?
What yeasts for each of those beers?
It may be that you have an infection in your equipment and it transferred to the beer... Do all 3 beers have the same bad smell?

I agree with the others that checking it at 1 week is early. Still, it shouldn't be horrendous.... I would recommend you soak your post-boil equipment (wort chiller, transfer hoses, fermenters, etc) in PBW or Oxyclean and then thoroughly sanitized them before your next batch. It might not be the culprit, but it certainly won't hurt.

thanks for the replies guys. i use an immersion chiller to cool the wart which is sanitized for by putting it in with the boil for 20min. I hear what you guys are saying about the co2, i'm wondering if my temps may be too low (I use a simple bucket with water and frozen water bottles. I strive for around 68F but sometimes it gets lower, maybe 64F.), maybe it's taking longer for fermentation to fully complete? My gravity reading was spot on but I guess I will leave it longer on the trub. Yeast have been different for each batch (Ringwood, London and Irish ale). I'm pretty sure it's not an infection, but I hear PBW is recommended a lot and I may start using that as well. Thanks for all your help, any other thoughts?

64F-68F are perfectly fine for fermentation temps. I recommend just waiting a couple more weeks and check again.

When you were doing extract brews, were you doing a full boil (6+ gallon) or a partial boil (4- gallon) with top-up water? It could massively change hop utilization and bitterness (and therefore some astringency) if you switched to full boil with all grain & didn't account for the boil volume difference.

Signature CO2. Keep on a brewin!

Heya,

Everyone has given some great suggestions! Just wondering what kind of 'Horrendous' smell did you get? Rotting vegatables? Eggs? Vinegar? etc.

I found John Palmer's List of common off-flavors to be helpful.

I wonder if it my be diacytel or DMS?

--LexusChris

I've read through his common off flavors piece and I suppose it could be vinegary, but only because of such a strong burning sensation. In fact, it's really not a flavor at all, but more the smell. I trust in what everyone else has said here in that it is probably CO2 production. Interestingly I've noticed my airlock dosn't bubble the way it used to, so maybe more of the CO2 and volatile alcohols are being trapped in the fermentor and not escaping through the airlock. Why this would be, I don't know, but from the feedback here it seems harmless. Thanks for the help guys, over and out.

co2 has to get out somehow. Its probably getting out through the lid where the seal may not be very tight. But who cares; it's getting out somehow instead of painting your ceiling with beer. My airlock doesn't really do anything either. No air is getting in through the lid, just out, so you needn't worry.

Carbon dioxide when concentrated, like in a fermenter, has an extremely acrid smell. It also reacts with the moisture in your nose creating carbonic acid a burning sensation.

jmo88 said:

co2 has to get out somehow. Its probably getting out through the lid where the seal may not be very tight. But who cares; it's getting out somehow instead of painting your ceiling with beer. My airlock doesn't really do anything either. No air is getting in through the lid, just out, so you needn't worry.

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I have learned that it frequently pays to read an entire thread before posting to it. It wasn't an airlock issue. Just say'n, ya know.

ibrewit said:

Carbon dioxide when concentrated, like in a fermenter, has an extremely acrid smell. It also reacts with the moisture in your nose creating carbonic acid a burning sensation.

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+1 Even knowing this from prior experience, I recently made the mistake of taking a whiff of the fumes escaping from my carboy as I racked to it from the primary. I was purging the carboy with CO2 as I filled it. The immediate sensation was a strong burning and rather unexpected smell. It was powerful and knocked me back some. I should have known better. Don't know what I was thinking.

FreddieK said:

I've read through his common off flavors piece and I suppose it could be vinegary, but only because of such a strong burning sensation. In fact, it's really not a flavor at all, but more the smell. I trust in what everyone else has said here in that it is probably CO2 production. Interestingly I've noticed my airlock dosn't bubble the way it used to, so maybe more of the CO2 and volatile alcohols are being trapped in the fermentor and not escaping through the airlock. Why this would be, I don't know, but from the feedback here it seems harmless. Thanks for the help guys, over and out.

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Catt22 said:

I have learned that it frequently pays to read an entire thread before posting to it. It wasn't an airlock issue. Just say'n, ya know.

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Just so you know...

+1 on the CO2 as well. However, you might want to check the accuracy of your thermometer if you're experiencing off-flavors or astringency in your all-grain brews. I recently purchased, and subsequently returned, a Tru-Temp digital from Target that read +6 @ 32F and +9 at 212F.

CO2 + H2O (in your nose) => carbonic acid in your nose AAHHHH

hopefully not a thermometer issue since I splurged on the type K termocouple setup, but I might as well check it in some boiling H2O. Thanks again for the help!