Black IPA....oxymoron?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

cheezydemon3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
12,915
Reaction score
1,677
Location
louisville
Black...Pale Ale.

Black, but pale.;)

Sorry! It just occured to me. Not that I really care.

No one would know what an IBA was, it saves time to say black IPA....I guess.




:D
 
No one would know what an IBA was, it saves time to say black IPA....I guess.

:D

Huh?

isba_SQUARE.jpg


And if you really didn't care, you wouldn't have posted anything. So yes, you did care.
 
Huh?

isba_SQUARE.jpg


And if you really didn't care, you wouldn't have posted anything. So yes, you did care.

So IBA would be ambiguous. And thanks for knowing me better than I do.

By "I don't care" I meant that I was not calling anyone out for using the term(s) Black IPA (or brown for that matter), just thought it was kinda funny, thought others might too.

We in the PNW like to claim this one, thus the term Cascadian Dark Ale.

I like it!
 
We in the PNW like to claim this one, thus the term Cascadian Dark Ale.

I also like the term Cascadian Dark Ale, but I'd like for it to catch on as "CDA."

People only know what IPA means because over time it became accepted. Think of how many folks drank Red Hook ESB for years and had no idea what the abbreviation stood for.

Abe at Hopworks Brewery in Portland explains Cascadian Dark Ale:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't like "India Brown Ale" as I think an American Brown Ale should be distinct from an English Brown Ale by being bigger and heavily hopped. I would like to see the BJCP guidelines reflect this. The Commercial Calibration column in Zymurgy called Ellie's brown a great example of American Brown but the guideline lists it as a classic example of Northern English Brown, too much overlap.

As for the Black IPAs...

I think these fall into two categories. IPAs that are colored without adding any roasted or other flavors associated with dark beers. This to me is a Black IPA but also uninteresting and not worth brewing.

A beer that is IPA strength (hops and gravity) but dark (darker than a brown ale) and roasty is its own thing and deserves its own name. Cascadian Dark Ale works for me.
 
whatever you call it, i call it delicious. :)

i just made my first one last month, and my keg is almost empty. it's been a hit at my bar. i called mine "blackjack guillitine".
nice and hoppy, and looks like a stout.
 
I like the term CDA.
Is that how Victory's Yakima Twilight should be classified? I had one at a restaurant a couple weeks ago. It was fantastic but I wasn't sure of the style.
 
Rogue has been making Blackened Brutal Bitter (under several names) for 8-9 years. Thats the first I remember.

RRogue's Dead guy was the first to show me that a dark roasty beer could be highly hopped and delicious.

Oh hell........my beersnob senses are tingling.....

I think I am starting to care.;)
 
Apparently, according to various sites, brewers in Newport, OR (Rogue) and Victoria B.C. pioneered the CDA style. I've found these style guidelines as well:

Cascadian Dark Ale
Aroma: prominent NW hop aromas: citrus, pine, resinous, sweet malt,
hints of roast, toast, chocolate malt, and/or Carafa
Flavor: A balance between NW hop flavor, bitterness, sweet malt,
subtle toast and roast, chocolate, Carafa. Black Patent is acceptable
at low levels, but should not be astringent. Some brewers prefer to
cold steep the dark grains to achieve a very dark beer without the
tannin contribution of adding the grains to the mash.
History: A style which emerged on the Northwest Coast of North America
in the early 21st Century. Northwest hops are prominent, balanced with
malt, dark malts give color and flavor, but body should be reminiscent
of an IPA, not heavy like a porter or stout. The style is not only
gaining traction with brewers in the Pacific Northwest, but is
starting to spread to other regions.
Classic Examples: Rogue Brewer, Phllips Black Toque, Barley Brown's
Turmoil, Walking Man Big Black Homo, Rogue Black Brutal, Pelican Bad
Santa, New Holland Black Hatter, Laughing Dog Dogzilla
IBUs 45-90
Abv 6-8.5%
 
I wish Pizza Port in Carlsbad bottled. Their black IPA makes Sublimely Self Righteous seem not worth drinking. Amazing how much better that beer is.
 
What grain is used to make it dark? Choco wheat?

Carafa III is considered best as it is dehusked and does not provide astringency. Small amounts of chocolate and/or roasted barley can be used. All of this is in the style guidelines I posted above.
 
Stone's 11th Anniversary Ale was a black IPA. They're still making it under the name Stone Sublimely Self-Righteous Ale. It is DEEElicious!

http://www.stonebrew.com/sublimely/

That beer is exactly what came to mind when I saw this thread. Excellent beer unlike anything else I've ever seen.

I wish Pizza Port in Carlsbad bottled. Their black IPA makes Sublimely Self Righteous seem not worth drinking. Amazing how much better that beer is.

Really? I'll have to give it a shot. I wonder if it's on tap at the San Clemente location.
 
Really? I'll have to give it a shot. I wonder if it's on tap at the San Clemente location.

I've seen it at San Clemente before. It is called Black Lie, and was made for the second anniversary of the Liar's Club. Amazing beer, but again, Jeff Bagby really doesn't **** anything up. Everything he makes is gold.
 
I was at Rock Bottom Brewery in Centennial, CO yesterday and had the black IPA. Fantastic... strong (9%), well balanced, malty, slightly roasty and hoppy. Really liked it!

This style(?) is definitely going on my ever-expanding to-brew list.
 
"Some brewers prefer to cold steep the dark grains to achieve a very dark beer without the tannin contribution"

how would you determine how much water you would need to do this process and achieve the proper darkness?
 
"Some brewers prefer to cold steep the dark grains to achieve a very dark beer without the tannin contribution"

how would you determine how much water you would need to do this process and achieve the proper darkness?

I did this the other day, and steeped a combo 8oz Black Patent and 8oz Roasted Barley. I put the grain in a hop bag, and then in a 2 quart mixing bowl filled with cold water. I let it sit in the fridge for 48 hours.

On brew day, I poured the resulting black water into the boil at 90 min. I also rinsed the steeped grains with warm water twice, and poured each into the boil. So in total I'd say I added about 3 quarts considering I did not squeeze any water out of the grain-bag.

I got the idea from a friend who did something similar for a Black Saison.

The resulting color (now in secondary) is just what I was hoping for, black, but not 100% black, such that it makes the beer somewhat transparent. The roasted flavor just barely comes through.
 
.............why not black food coloring?;)

For me personally, why have the dark color if you don't want the dark flavor?

Why not a purple IPA?
 
heh - the flavor is there. Cold steeping doesn't avoid flavor contribution, just tannins. Too much of a roasted/chocolate flavor in this "style" would just be a hoppy american stout, IMO. When i taste Laughing Dog's Dogzilla, for example, I taste an identity crisis. Maybe that's the idea? idk
 
heh - the flavor is there. Cold steeping doesn't avoid flavor contribution, just tannins. Too much of a roasted/chocolate flavor in this "style" would just be a hoppy american stout, IMO. When i taste Laughing Dog's Dogzilla, for example, I taste an identity crisis. Maybe that's the idea? idk

Hah dogzilla having an identity crisis is an understatement. That beer is just plain awful. Though someone must enjoy it, right? I think it's the poorest example of this style.
 
I'm not gonna jump onboard with the debate here, I just wanna say... I can't wait for the release of Widmer Pitch Black IPA in a week :)
 
I love the name Cascadian Dark Ale. I have been calling my latest IBA or ICA (chocolate). I am glad it is an accepted style (for the most part). Here is my loose recipe.

6 lbs light DME 1/2 early 1/2 late additions
1 lbs Crystal 40L steeped 45 min
1 lbs Chocolate Malt steeped 45 min

1/2 oz simcoe 1 oz us saaz 6o min
1 oz us saaz 30 min
1/2 oz simcoe 1 oz willamette 20 min
1 oz willamette 3 min
1/2 oz cascade dry hop

Irish moss, and nutrient.
 
Here's my latest, Black IPA? IAA? CDA?

8 lbs Pale LME
1/4 lb. Crystal 40L
1/4 lb. Roasted

Hops
1 oz. Centennial hops (60 min boil)
1/2 oz. Cascade (30 min boil)
1/2 oz. Centennial hops (30 min boil)
1/2 oz. Centennial (15 min)
1 tsp Irish Moss (15 Min Boil)
1 oz. Chinook hops (5 min late boil)
1/2 oz. Cascade hops (end of boil)
1 oz each Chinook and Cascade hops (dryhopped)


White Labs California Ale Yeast WLP001
 
this is a style of beer that i really enjoy, i love IIPAs but the added complexity of the darker malts just gives this beer that something extra.

I have a Black IIPA recipe in my recipes section. And I agree - the darker malt gives it something special.
 
A local brewery in my hometown(Iron Horse Brewery,Ellensburg) has been putting out a BIPA. Haven't had it yet but just had Widmers W10 which is a BIPA, really liking it.
 
I don't think it's a debate, but it has had the effect of making me self concious about referring to something as a black pale ale.

To me it sounds like "I'm going to get a hot iced coffee".

I won't judge others if they use the term.
 
I once made a "Black Wit" using 2 jars of Sinamar. http://www.northernbrewer.com/default/sinamar-4-oz.html

I wanted to throw people off asking them to tell me what kind of beer they were holding based on only appearance at first. Of course I got porter, stout, and every other dark beer out there. But when they smelled it they got orange, coriander and chamomile. There was almost no flavor from the Sinamar so it tasted like a wit too.

It was a fun experiment, I think I still have a few bottles in the basement, I'll have to pull one out soon.
 
This is a great topic since I'm currently entertaining the notion of brewing this style in the near future.
 
This is a great topic since I'm currently entertaining the notion of brewing this style in the near future.

Oh hellllllll yes. Got the ingredients yet? I am even thinking 8 oz of rolled oats for stout mouth feel with a ton of hops!

I like Black IPA, I don't want to be limited to using NW hops. Sometimes I feel a little more noble.

Agreed. Cascadian sounds great, but it is limiting.

I prefer DHG....Dark Hop Grenade.;)

I use hopsdirect.com hops. Grown right here in Washington.

.............I can't tell if you have the right thread or not.....but that is cool!:mug:
 
I love the name Cascadian Dark Ale. I have been calling my latest IBA or ICA (chocolate). I am glad it is an accepted style (for the most part). Here is my loose recipe.

6 lbs light DME 1/2 early 1/2 late additions
1 lbs Crystal 40L steeped 45 min
1 lbs Chocolate Malt steeped 45 min

1/2 oz simcoe 1 oz us saaz 6o min
1 oz us saaz 30 min
1/2 oz simcoe 1 oz willamette 20 min
1 oz willamette 3 min
1/2 oz cascade dry hop

Irish moss, and nutrient.

I transferred this to secondary today, the hydrometer sample was a 1.011 with a color of about 21 srm. It tasted great, more on the coffee side than chocolate. Overall, I like it. The hops are there, but without carbonation etc. I couldn't pull out too many flavors. A little grapefruit and slightly spicy.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top