Electric BIAB system

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Chrisde

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Hello all. I have read a lot of information on your forum since starting brewing in February. So far I love this hobby but my current method is poor to say the least. I built a heat stick (1500w mwd) last month and brewed 3 batches for a work get together for the end of may and when kegging the first one I noticed a scorched flavor. 17 gallons down the toilet. That hurt.

So I decided if I was going to do electric I may as well do the whole system...

I wanted to post my build here since there r a ton of build on your forums but none, that I have found, quite like this. And I am going to have questions the entire way so may as well have them all in one place.

I am going to be using a 10 gallon SS multipot as a BIAB system so I will only have 1 vessel for mashing and boiling. I plan to use a pump to recirculate mash.

I thought I would start with the control panel since it seems, to me at least, to be the hardest and most expensive part.

I want to try and keep the cost low but want it to be safe and durable.

Here is my wiring diagram. What do you think? What changes do I need to make?

Other questions:

1. What amp should switch b to pid?
2. What is a cheap controller I can use for the pump flow?
3. Can I use the same ground for the 15a gfci (heat stick for sparge water and maybe to expidite mash to boil time)?

Thank you for any and all help
 
I would definitely change some switches. The heating element should have a dual pole so that you cut both hot leads for safety. Currently there is a potential for leakage to ground. GFCI is a necessary additional safety measure, but you should never solely rely on it. You should definitely tie all grounds together, to the kettle, the control box chassis if it is metal, and the heat stick where ever it is metal. You probably also want a switch for your vent hood outlet. The PID power switch is a good idea especially if it is going to be hard wired.
 
Okay. I can do the dual pole for the kettle outlet.

I am a little confused on your ground comments though. Aren't all of mine grounded correctly? Maybe it's the drawing... where I have "5500w element" there will b a 3 prong plug that the kettle will plug into. I will ground that plug to the element box. Do I need to ground it to the kettle also? The heat stick is already grounded. I will be using this in a bucket so no need to ground the bucket right?

I guess I should have mentioned. I have a lot of experience wiring things like sheds, garages, house but have never done anything like this before. I am confident in my ability to follow a diagram once I have it drawn correctly but wanna get this sorted before buying all the pieces.

Thank you for the help.
 
Your grounds are good. You want everything to connect to the single ground that goes back to the panel. The single pole switch leaves the other hot connected and if there is a failure and there is some leakage to ground you could have current through the kettle with the switch turned off and you would never know it. The GFCI should pop if there is any leakage to ground, but they can fail also and you won't be able to tell by looking at the system. It is just another level of safety. When you cut both hots then then you know there is no electrical flow unless that switch also failed closed which is very very unlikely and you would have an indication that the heat did not stop.
 
Okay. That's makes more sense now.

Now for the switch for the pid. Since I am putting a fuse in line (probably 1 amp) should I use a 1 amp switch as well or something higher?
 
You need to use a switch that is rated for at least 1 amp, higher is better. Standard UL codes for most appliances and machinery says that all the components should be rated to handle 125% of the nominal current. It is a good rule of thumb.
 
You may want to reconsider the pump. I've been biab'ing for a number of years now and have tried using a pump along the way, but it only created havoc.. compressed the grain bed, leaked a bit, etc. Did not result in better beer. I now just stir my mash every 30 min or so. Maybe for now build your panel with an outlet, but don't bother with the pump yet.

Also 10g is a bit small. Suggest you go 13 (50L) or more.

I have an electric biab setup, it's 100% worth the effort. Good luck.
 
Thanks for the input. I at least want a pump to whirlpool and to use with my immersion chiller (I use ice water in a bucket). Found a lot of people using a cheap 12v pump to recirculation. Do you suggest I use a pwm to control flow on this or a ball valve on outflow of pump? I would also still like the option to recirculate with it as well just so the option is there.
 
Chrisde said:
Thanks for the input. I at least want a pump to whirlpool and to use with my immersion chiller (I use ice water in a bucket). Found a lot of people using a cheap 12v pump to recirculation. Do you suggest I use a pwm to control flow on this or a ball valve on outflow of pump? I would also still like the option to recirculate with it as well just so the option is there.
Click to expand...

Those 12v pumps will work fine for recirculation, but be aware that they may or may not have enough flow for a good whirlpool.
 
Swab said:
You may want to reconsider the pump. I've been biab'ing for a number of years now and have tried using a pump along the way, but it only created havoc.. compressed the grain bed, leaked a bit, etc. Did not result in better beer. I now just stir my mash every 30 min or so. Maybe for now build your panel with an outlet, but don't bother with the pump yet.

Also 10g is a bit small. Suggest you go 13 (50L) or more.

I have an electric biab setup, it's 100% worth the effort. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I agree with you Swab, I also e-biab but have chosen to keep it very simple. I feel the end result with a sophisticated system is more user satisfaction than improved beer quality. When it comes to brewing, I guess I just prefer very simple....I don't even have valves on my kettles and don't seem to miss them at all. Less to clean better for me :)
 
wilserbrewer said:
I agree with you Swab, I also e-biab but have chosen to keep it very simple. I feel the end result with a sophisticated system is more user satisfaction than improved beer quality. When it comes to brewing, I guess I just prefer very simple....I don't even have valves on my kettles and don't seem to miss them at all. Less to clean better for me :)
Click to expand...

Can u post pictures of your set up? Do you use a pid to control your elements? It would definitely same a ton of money going simple.
 
Chrisde said:
Thanks for the input. I at least want a pump to whirlpool and to use with my immersion chiller (I use ice water in a bucket). Found a lot of people using a cheap 12v pump to recirculation. Do you suggest I use a pwm to control flow on this or a ball valve on outflow of pump? I would also still like the option to recirculate with it as well just so the option is there.
Click to expand...

For DC I'm going up to 24V - @auggiedoggy indicated these pumps heat up when throttled with a ball valve so going with PWM for flow control:

Pump
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361163382356

PWM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400707618847
 
I was reading more on these and noticed this pwm input is 6-30volt. Do I need to something to reduce the voltage in?if so does it matter what voltage I use as long as it's in that range?

If I use this 24v pump can I do this?

120v through 24 volt (cell phone charger thing) to pwm to outlet and plug pump to outlet?

Sorry kinda new to this type of wiring so a little limited on knowledge.

Thanks
 
Chrisde said:
I was reading more on these and noticed this pwm input is 6-30volt. Do I need to something to reduce the voltage in?if so does it matter what voltage I use as long as it's in that range?

If I use this 24v pump can I do this?

120v through 24 volt (cell phone charger thing) to pwm to outlet and plug pump to outlet?

Sorry kinda new to this type of wiring so a little limited on knowledge.

Thanks
Click to expand...

That PWM control works with any voltage between 6V and 30V, so you just need 24VDC @ 1A per pump.
 
Chrisde said:
Thank you for those links. I will be getting those
Click to expand...

It's your call obviously, but I've heard bad thing about these pumps - that they will stop working after a few brews, etc. If you're going to use a pump, I'd get something like a chugger.
 
Swab said:
It's your call obviously, but I've heard bad thing about these pumps - that they will stop working after a few brews, etc. If you're going to use a pump, I'd get something like a chugger.
Click to expand...

I guess this is like anything. Some people have good experiences while others don't. I have been reading through a thread on here "cheap compact wort pump" and it seems that a lot of b people use these, some for years without issue. Thanks for the concern.
 
The PWM controller in the link uses 16KHz . I found an older post where the poster indicated he was using ~700 Hz and found that 20KHz didn't work. The poster indicated that the pump sound (@ 700 Hz) was annoying . Any other data points ?
 
Not much but I took the first step. Making box from 1x10 oak. Will start ordering parts tomorrow for the box just started cutting out for outlets tonight. Will have 2 external 120v with switches and 1 240v with switch. Putting a 120v internally for the fan to cool heat sink (seems easier/safer than attaching wires to lose plug)

View attachment 1431038797426.jpg
 
What Guage of wire should I use to connect the power to the PID? I am using a 4 wire 240 . The only thing the neutral will connect to with my set up is the PID and I don't imagine I should hook up a 10ga wire to the PID. Thanks
 
You should be able to use 24-26 gauge to power the pid if you want, they draw almost no power. Pretty sure mine was sitting at about 100ma when I checked it with a meter
 
Oh wow. I was going to use a 1a fuse. Do u use a fuse? If so, what amperage?
 
I use a 250mA fuse and still worry that the pid will fry before it blows
 
A little more progress. Slowly but surely. Bottom right is for the dpst switch for the element. Still waiting on it.

Gotta figure out how to cut top left plate to install pid. Top right is switch and fuse for pid. Bottom left is switch and fuse for ssr fan (didn't mean to do fuse. Wired it in without thinking but since this is a fan from an old Xbox and I already cut the wood to fit it I would prefer not to fry it)

View attachment 1432608045131.jpg
 

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