Feud between my two local breweries

Well, I'm sure moops wanted to not necessarily mention names because he seems like a nice guy.

But I agree with the others on a couple of things:
1) Since you like all the IPAs and saisons and craziness from the one, you might as well just buy some to drink at home. After all, it's still craft beer, and supporting any craft beer is a worthy cause in my opinion.
2) The below average beer you can help make better. The below average personality will likely never fix itself.

Punity said:

It could but i think that is a rarity in our industry. Not awhole lot you can do that is game changing when it comes to brewing that isnt being done but hundreds of others.

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They are more common than you think. The non-compete agreement (NCA) is generally used to prevent an employee from leaving and working for a competitor within a certain geographical area and time frame. Courts will invalidate a NCA that is too broad or restrictive of a person's right to practice his profession. They are typically upheld if the NCA's terms are 2 years or less and it covers a local area. Thus, an employer can use the NCA to prevent the employee from taking a job in a similar capacity in the same town or within a reasonable radius, for a period of up to 2 years after leaving that employer. A NCA can also be used to protect the buyer of a business, to ensure that the seller doesn't open up a competing business in the area.

Employers often include a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) when hiring. This prevents an employee from disclosing information related to company business, such as customer lists, financial data, trade secrets and other IP, processes, etc. The NDA is enforceable during and after employment, and usually has no timeout; it is enforced permanently. Businesses will also require execution of a NDA with contractors, vendors, consultants, etc.--anyone who might be given access to confidential business information.

Employers often put both the NCA and NDA language together in an employment document.

I was talking specifically about the brewing industry Im still under an NCA from my previous job before I quit to brew full time.

brrman said:

Sounds like #1 was a brewery opened by the brewer or someone who is a brewing enthusiast.
Brewery #2 sounds like a business venture opened by someone who is not a brewer (hired a brewer) and they run it like it's a cutthroat business.

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This is what I was thinking too. Most issues with company's culture stem from the owners/leaders and it can kill a business. That may be what's going in behind the scene at #2.

So for anyone that is interested in the whole backstory....
#1 was the first planned brewery in my town. They were originally supposed ot be at the location of #2, but the owner of the building decided it would not be worth it to open a brewery. So the brewer of #1 was forced to find more funding and another location and proceeded to renovate it.

A few months later, the owner of the large building #2 is in (there are now other shops there too) decides he does in fact want to give a brewery a shot and hires a brewmaster.

So #1 is both the brewmaster and owner and #2 is just the brewmaster. That may be why they are much more cut-throat. But also explains why there is tension between the two from the beginning

Punity said:

I understand stuff like untappd and ratebeer is a necessary evil that is bestowed upon us brewers, although it is a great tool for me to see how my beers are doing and if i can tweak things, but my god its frustrating to be working the taps and literally have not a one person talk to you for a solid 10 minutes because they are just sucked into their phones rather then engaging me to MAYBE learn about the beers......sorry i get testy when i now feel awkward in my own taproom because im standing there in silence watching other people tap tap tap away haha,.

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Maybe the patrons of your tap room don't realize it's Your beer, or they're a bit too shy to talk, or whatever. I'll keep your comments in mind, though, next time I visit a small tap room. It never really occurred to me that the brewer would want my questions or comments.

SharonaZamboni said:

Maybe the patrons of your tap room don't realize it's Your beer, or they're a bit too shy to talk, or whatever. I'll keep your comments in mind, though, next time I visit a small tap room. It never really occurred to me that the brewer would want my questions or comments.

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I actually get that question a lot of do you make the beer.....but we are super small also not a lot of employees 3 actually haha....I just look at it like we on here complain all the time about I'll informed servers at breweries....for most people I'm not one to bug you but if you come into my place and sit on your phone rating my beer and ignore me or fail to ask any questions about it....it's just an uncomfortable feeling I get standing behind like bar....like I said super small 15 people would make the taproom feel cramped...and yea I could just leave and go hangout in the back but what kind of service is that? I don't know just a small pet peeve of mine....my favorite customers are the ones who come in and tell me they don't like this this and this....my mind is challenge accepted!!

m00ps said:

So for anyone that is interested in the whole backstory....
#1 was the first planned brewery in my town. They were originally supposed ot be at the location of #2, but the owner of the building decided it would not be worth it to open a brewery. So the brewer of #1 was forced to find more funding and another location and proceeded to renovate it.

A few months later, the owner of the large building #2 is in (there are now other shops there too) decides he does in fact want to give a brewery a shot and hires a brewmaster.

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To`me`, this reads.......
"Brewery #1 wanted to open up where #2 now currently is because the owner of the building (and also brewery #2) is a total backstabbing ********* and fed #1`s owner a line of **** about using his building for a brewey and later on wanted to use #1`s idea to take all of the business $$ away from #1"

It's probably for the better though as now the owner of #1 isn't under the thumb of the owner of #2 (due to owning the building the 1 brewery `would` have been in)

After hearing this i'd not go to #2 at all. bless it's owner in the a$$hole with a cactus sideways.

Paps said:

To`me`, this reads.......
"Brewery #1 wanted to open up where #2 now currently is because the owner of the building (and also brewery #2) is a total backstabbing ********* and fed #1`s owner a line of **** about using his building for a brewey and later on wanted to use #1`s idea to take all of the business $$ away from #1"

It's probably for the better though as now the owner of #1 isn't under the thumb of the owner of #2 (due to owning the building the 1 brewery `would` have been in)

After hearing this i'd not go to #2 at all. bless it's owner in the a$$hole with a cactus sideways.

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I was thinking along the same lines, also it feels to me that #1 cares about the craft, #2 cares about publicity and $$. A place I wouldn't give the time of day.

Oops.

http://discussions.probrewer.com/sh...ewer-Needed-Dry-Ground-Brewing-Co-(Paducah-Ky)

m00ps said:

So for anyone that is interested in the whole backstory....
#1 was the first planned brewery in my town. They were originally supposed ot be at the location of #2, but the owner of the building decided it would not be worth it to open a brewery. So the brewer of #1 was forced to find more funding and another location and proceeded to renovate it.

A few months later, the owner of the large building #2 is in (there are now other shops there too) decides he does in fact want to give a brewery a shot and hires a brewmaster.

So #1 is both the brewmaster and owner and #2 is just the brewmaster. That may be why they are much more cut-throat. But also explains why there is tension between the two from the beginning

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WOW! You should've led with that... With that knowledge, I would say never, ever, give your business to Dry Ground. It seems that the guys from PBW likely pitched a very good business plan and showed how quickly the town would flock to craft beer, and the owner from Dry Ground took it and ran with it. Unfortunately, DGB seems to have way more money and business expertise. Their advertising looks better, their publicity stunts seem to be better (I'm sorry but I'm not all that convinced that getting into a magazine, especially on the cover, is simply because of being good at your craft. Most magazines nowdays sell "story" space that is essentially advertising with the guise of neat story), and even their website looks more professional.

I think you really gotta get behind PBW and help show them how to do things right. Just to stick it to ******** like the DGB owner. Although if the idea that ******** higher *****ebags holds true, maybe his headbrewers will continue to ruin his reputation.

I wonder if any of us craft beer, microbrewery loving people on here could help propel Paducah Beer Werks forward with some kind of professional help; i.e. website help, productive publicity stunts, better marketing schemes, successful brew style ideas, etc.?

HarborTownBrewing said:

I know of a very familiar situation where there was a brewery (brewery A) who employed a head brewer. The owner told the head brewer what kind of beers to make, and he made them. Until eventually they just clashed too much and the brewer couldn't take it and he left.

When he left, the ex-brewer opened a brewery - Brewery B. They were opened in the same town, about 5 miles from each other.

Brewery A is very eccentric: crazy crazy beers with strange stuff in them, and just in a very different environment. Pinball tables, foosball, darts, chalkboards, pacman games, etc everywhere.

Brewery B focuses on the ingredients they put in each beer and growing things on site at the brewery. It's more like a farmhouse environment and very reserved.

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This sounds just about like Right Brain Brewing and Brewery Terra Firma in Traverse City...

joshesmusica said:

I'm sorry but I'm not all that convinced that getting into a magazine, especially on the cover, is simply because of being good at your craft. Most magazines nowdays sell "story" space that is essentially advertising with the guise of neat story), and even their website looks more professional.

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Well, it's one thing to say that getting a cover is due to having great PR acumen, and another to say that getting a cover is due to pay for play...

My wife has a PR background. A while back, she and her sister were opening a small internet-based business selling gourmet rice krispy treats. Because of my wife's PR background, she knew how to pitch to media, and so she ended up getting story writeups in a number of magazines, and even featured in a segment on the local news (which in LA is no small feat). I can assure you there was no pay-for-play.

Of course, I have no experience with how the Alstrom brothers run their magazine... All I'll say about my opinion of them is that I generally have no desire to set foot on their web site.

Im actually still shocked about the cover myself. I didnt think this tiny town would get any attention on that scale.

Homercidal said:

This sounds just about like Right Brain Brewing and Brewery Terra Firma in Traverse City...

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Never heard of Terra Firma... RBB has some okay stuff but never saw one and said "yes that is what I want, bring me 6 please." However I've never been to the brewery/taproom so the distribution quality vs taproom quality might be at play.

#2 sounds like dooshes. #1 sounds cool. Go with #1. Or in layman's terms "Ditch the zero, get with the hero!"... Which is #1.

Seriously, we have a crapload of micros, which doesnt even hold a flame to some other cities. With that said, about 1/4 suck. Thats not being a snob, its just the general consensus. If your beer is good, it will sell. If your beer sucks, well, it may still sell, but not for long... And then you're out of business (which Ive seen in the past year, and possible for another place in the near future)

Homercidal said:

This sounds just about like Right Brain Brewing and Brewery Terra Firma in Traverse City...

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@homercidal you are just too active in all these forums!!!

HarborTownBrewing said:

@homercidal you are just too active in all these forums!!!

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What do I win?? :cross:

I think that fulsome beard has won me over.

The more I read in this thread, the more I realize that Freud did indeed get between your local breweries.
.
.
.
oh. feud !! Sorry. Carry on.

Haha, just noticed this is the same brewery that was trying to head hunt a head brewer through Oregon State University's fermentation science program. Here's what they said about your little town m00ps:

"Paducah (pah-doo-kuh). Funny name isn’t it? But it’s a cool place. It has a thriving art community, two craft breweries, a low cost of living, an amazing local music scene, lakes, trails, rivers, great restaurants, a bevy of fascinating young professionals, and the people here are embracing craft beer in a way we never thought possible (you have to meet our regulars…especially Jeffro). Seriously, it’s cool."

The excluded that their former head brewer got fired for throwing around chairs

Oh yeah we are so cool. They didnt even mention the #1 attraction - The National Quilt Museum. Yup, every April the town gets swarmed with seniors and its hell driving around trying not to hit them as they meander through the streets

gbx said:

I think every town now has at least one hipster craft beer snob brewery. ...

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*exception to point* We have zero brewery here. I'd take a hipster beer snob brewery just to have something.

Down the grapevine, it looks like theyve found a few candidates for brewery #2. Im considering going back there to at least see whats going on. A number of their employees I really liked. I hope that the snobbishness was just cultured from their last brewer....

update: I went to the brewery that lost its head brewer for New Years Eve. They had a band playing and it was absolutely slammed. Their beer has majorly gone downhill. I tried 3 of my top beers from there and I struggled to finish every one of them. I'm guessing their head brewer kept most of what he did to himself and just kind of gave the assistant ones tasks and stuff because they obviously aren't doing what they did before. I've talked to 4 other people that similarly noted the considerable decline in quality

m00ps said:

update: I went to the brewery that lost its head brewer for New Years Eve. They had a band playing and it was absolutely slammed. Their beer has majorly gone downhill.

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Can you tell if they are usually busy, or think it may have just been a NYE thing?

I'm used to seeing dive bars do well, just as much as I'm used to seeing upscale pubs do well. But I have a hard time understanding how a dive-brewery can do well. I say that because there is one place I have been to and they serve horrible horrible beer...from plastic cups. Yet, they are busy with the locals who come in to hang out and listen to live music.

You should clearly never return to that brewery. Those who love it will continue to go, but you, you can find another place and just know that you hate that brewery. Save your dollars.

Post mortem update:

Over the last few months, the brewery that lost their head brewer has gotten a bit desperate it seems. They are in the midst of a lawsuit with the brewer that left/got fired. Apparently he's suing them for stealing "his" recipes. Although, from everything I've gathered, they were just palmed straight from the +5 breweries hes worked at.

They are now trying to collaborate with #1. #1 want to be amenable, but is worried that #2 is just looking for a window into their process. I found out the other day the actual reason #2s beer has changed so much over the past few months. Apparently none of the processes were written down, so the guys at the brewery were left with just a list of ingredients and no idea as to yeast handling, mash temp, sparge procedure, fermentation temp, etc.

SWMBO wants me to head to #2 tonight cause some of her friends want to do a trivia thing there. Decided to go and see if their snobbishness has tapered off yet. I really think I could help them out with at least their Belgian styles. They have been sickeningly sweet since the new year

Always good to help. Especially if their not big Richards any longer.

m00ps said:

Apparently he's suing them for stealing "his" recipes.

Apparently none of the processes were written down, so the guys at the brewery were left with just a list of ingredients and no idea as to yeast handling, mash temp, sparge procedure, fermentation temp, etc.

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First off, this is why the owner of a brewery should always have a detailed understanding of how their beer is made. You don't have to do it yourself, but you need to be able to brew if the worst happens, or at least have more than one person at the brewery capable.

Everything else aside, this is almost hilarious how bad a head brewer the guy that left sounds like. Writes nothing down, hides everything he does from his boss, and sues after he leaves in an attempt to prevent them from continuing to brew the same beer.

Saddest part is, this probably isn't as uncommon an attitude as we would hope.

m00ps said:

They are now trying to collaborate with #1. #1 want to be amenable, but is worried that #2 is just looking for a window into their process.

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This sort of thing is handled all the time in industry using Proprietary Information Exchange Agreements and/or Memoranda of Understanding. If #1 is worried (I would be too, given the history) but is will to give it a shot, the proper contractual vehicle can be worked out in advance to protect themselves and establish the desire for goodwill.

I just cannot believe Padukah has a single craft brewery, let alone two!