Switchcraft's plug and outlet option

CornyKegs 728
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alien said:
Says who? These speaker connectors were never intended to carry power. Show me a professional who would use them for this purpose.
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Go Production
Caramore center for the performing arts
Event technology
To supply power for both theatrical lighting and power supply for amplification.
All the come to mind at the moment.
 
Neutrik, the company that makes the premium version of these connectors, explicitly states that they are not for use with mains power, and sells a similar, more robust connector designed for that purpose.

Switchcraft, the company that makes cheap knock-offs of those connectors, says it's ok, and good enough for 50A and 1500 VAC.
 
MX1 said:
Run,

This was asked before, but I did not see an answer.

What size mounting hole for the panel mount?

Tim
Click to expand...

They are 24mm which is just under an inch ( 0.94488") so a 1" hole saw will work well!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Home Brew mobile app
 
runs4beer said:
Go Production
Caramore center for the performing arts
Event technology
To supply power for both theatrical lighting and power supply for amplification.
All the come to mind at the moment.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the manufacturer... they also state its purpose is for power as well.
 
orangehero said:
Neutrik, the company that makes the premium version of these connectors, explicitly states that they are not for use with mains power, and sells a similar, more robust connector designed for that purpose.

Switchcraft, the company that makes cheap knock-offs of those connectors, says it's ok, and good enough for 50A and 1500 VAC.
Click to expand...

"Cheep knock-offs" can have different ratings then what they are "cheep knock-offs" of, right?
 
So what I do not understand is why so many people that do not like/approve of/or want to use these, keep trolling this thread?

Tim
 
orangehero said:
Neutrik, the company that makes the premium version of these connectors, explicitly states that they are not for use with mains power, and sells a similar, more robust connector designed for that purpose.

Switchcraft, the company that makes cheap knock-offs of those connectors, says it's ok, and good enough for 50A and 1500 VAC.
Click to expand...

So you're calling them a liar?

Define "mains power."
 
augiedoggy said:
Don't forget the manufacturer... they also state its purpose is for power as well.
Click to expand...

Of course! I was trying to answer the exact question, you know stay on tropic...
The switch craft option... not mandate!
 
Option!?!

Run! You have been pushing your ways onto young impressionable electric brewers.
How dare you go against the grain and offer up a solution that not only cost less but takes up a smaller footprint.



I have been converted

There is no craft but Switchcraft

///end sarcasm ///

Lol
 
orangehero said:
Neutrik, the company that makes the premium version of these connectors, explicitly states that they are not for use with mains power, and sells a similar, more robust connector designed for that purpose.

Switchcraft, the company that makes cheap knock-offs of those connectors, says it's ok, and good enough for 50A and 1500 VAC.
Click to expand...

Actually that's the current they have been tested and found to be safe up to and they were UL listed and approved all the way back in 1977 with these ratings so... if they were unsafe this would not be the case... right? Otherwise why consider any of these ratings or regulations at all?

The fact of the matter is no one who is using these for this purpose has had any problems other than they wished they locked better... but those people also stated they stay plugged in just fine for the use they are using them for.
Just like those that are using hot water tank elements to heat and make food grade beverages in kegs that weren't designed by the manufacturer for this purpose and cooler mashtuns also not designed for the heat or use they experience.... and we drink this from bottles NOT designed for refill by the manufacturer or kegs designed fro soda syrup....
So what was your point again?

Eventually someone might manufacturing a heating element just for making beer then perhaps people here can make negative "hack" comments about the water tank elements too I guess... they do make all stainless elements...perhaps anyone not using them should be convinced there setup is unsafe because there's a better more expensive option? I mean surely camco has some disclaimer about not using their hot water tank elements for food?
 
I was just presenting some facts in reponse to the statement that they are adequately rated for this application. The discrepancy in ratings does seem odd to me.

Why is it people always gets their panties in a wad whenever safety is discussed?
 
You cannot fit 4x 6 AWG wires inside these connectors, there physically is not space to do so. So how can they handle 50 Amps continuous power? It doesn't pass the smell test.

The power needs of audio equipment are not the same as the power needs of an electric stove.
 
MX1 said:
So what I do not understand is why so many people that do not like/approve of/or want to use these, keep trolling this thread?

Tim
Click to expand...

@MX1 If you are calling me out as a troll, let me respond. I have had a certain forum member, well represented in this discussion, in my earhole over and over asking me to justify my views on these plugs, which are apparently opposite to his. I have kept my response this thread to avoid propagating this seeming dialogue of the deaf all over the site.

I bought both types of plug and made a choice of what I want to use for my own equipment. I invite you all to do the same.
 
alien said:
@MX1 If you are calling me out as a troll, let me respond. I have had a certain forum member, well represented in this discussion, in my earhole over and over asking me to justify my views on these plugs, which are apparently opposite to his. I have kept my response this thread to avoid propagating this seeming dialogue of the deaf all over the site.

I bought both types of plug and made a choice of what I want to use for my own equipment. I invite you all to do the same.
Click to expand...


First and foremost, if I was calling you out, I would have done so by name.
Second, trolling as in the fishing term, not the internet troll.
Third, there are others that seem to have issue with the plugs, and that is fine, hell, I will go as far as saying it is a good thing. It leads to more research and a different options.

What I do not understand is why you or anyone else that feels this is not the option for them would continue to stay so engaged in this thread.

If I did not like simcoe hops, I would not be in a thread about using them.....but that is just me.

Tim
 
alien said:
You cannot fit 4x 6 AWG wires inside these connectors, there physically is not space to do so. So how can they handle 50 Amps continuous power? It doesn't pass the smell test.
Click to expand...
4/6 AWG solid core wire such as Romex will fit in the side the plug housing.

alien said:
The power needs of audio equipment are not the same as the power needs of an electric stove.
Click to expand...

Power supply for lightning is; as both are a resistance load.
 
The other thing in question here is how many are using these for a 50a load and how many are just using them for a 30, 23 or only 19a load.I bet very few here are using them for 50A if anyone.
... I myself use them for my elements... I can provide no real data on there use with 50a loads accept that switchcraft states thyey are not rated for a continuous 50A load if I read there specs correctly. I could have used one for my 30a main plug but I hardwired it.
As far as safety....thats been discussed by the professionals who rated and certified the connectors...
As far as why one manufacturer recommends them and one doesnt?... Well theres a very real possibility that one manufacturer has other products they are pushing for the job and perhaps those connectors are more expensive or they have a larger profit margin with the real manufacturer in china for them....

no different than the practice bestbuy sometimes uses on there display tv's they have been known (at least at some locations in the past ) to run high quality hdmi connections to some tv's they have been motivated to sell by suppliers and the other tv's on display will have either an inferior connection or inferior thrown off picture settings to make the "feature" product look better. on some of the larger commercial machinery I install and service the only real differences between some $50k high volume devices and $25k low volume are cosmetic and firmware to slow one model down or remove functionality.. Ive also seen them take a machine rated for 400,000ft of printing a month by the real manufacturer and rebrand it with an American brand name and sell it in the stated for a max of 50kft a month because it interferes with the marketing strategy of another product in there line...
 
If I am catching fish then I am not rebuilding the brewery.....

I hope to install the panel mounts this weekend or next. Will post up some pics when I am done
 
MX1 said:
If I am catching fish then I am not rebuilding the brewery.....

I hope to install the panel mounts this weekend or next. Will post up some pics when I am done
Click to expand...

well honestly I think.... Give a man a beer hes happy for an hour, teach him to make beer, hes happy for a lifetime has a better ring to it anyway.. :)
 
augiedoggy said:
Well theres a very real possibility that one manufacturer has other products they are pushing for the job and perhaps those connectors are more expensive or they have a larger profit margin with the real manufacturer in china for them....
Click to expand...

^^ THIS. Its probably the case that Neutrik sells multiple projects rated for different jobs because they can and people can't think for them selves. A good comparison to these connectors is the blank CD industry. Some CDs are sold as "data" CDs others are sold as "music" and so on... They are all the same product in the end and can be used for the same things. But, because marketing knows people will fall for it, they label them for different uses then dick around with the prices.
 
ryanhope said:
^^ THIS. Its probably the case that Neutrik sells multiple projects rated for different jobs because they can and people can't think for them selves. A good comparison to these connectors is the blank CD industry. Some CDs are sold as "data" CDs others are sold as "music" and so on... They are all the same product in the end and can be used for the same things. But, because marketing knows people will fall for it, they label them for different uses then dick around with the prices.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like you don't know a whole lot about Neutrik's products or what they are for.

Ask yourself these questions of speakON or Switchcraft HPC.

Is there a premating ground?
Are there dedicated, labelled Hot/Neutral/Ground terminals?
Is hot plugging an option?
 
is there a dedicated hot / neutral and ground labeled on a hot water tank element?
as long as some intelligence and common sense and understanding is used in wiring them up (just like needed with the element) then whats the Issue here?
if you have absolutely no idea what your doing and that the wires should line up with the same pins at the other end of the outlet than these are not for you... You need monkey safe pictures and labels to tell you what to do.

they are universal connectors that are heavy duty enough to do the job for a DIY makeshift device... just like the rest of the control panel or brewery. once they are safetly installed there is no way to plug them in incorrectly and dedicated wire labels are no longer a factor.

My XLR connectors for the sensos did not have designated labels explaining the use of each pin either?? because they are also universal connectors.
 
ryanhope said:
^^ THIS. Its probably the case that Neutrik sells multiple projects rated for different jobs because they can and people can't think for them selves. A good comparison to these connectors is the blank CD industry. Some CDs are sold as "data" CDs others are sold as "music" and so on... They are all the same product in the end and can be used for the same things. But, because marketing knows people will fall for it, they label them for different uses then dick around with the prices.
Click to expand...

Actually, there were some burners on the market that only used "music" blank CD's. My brother in law had a stereo component that burned audio CD's but it would only accept the special CD's that were branded "music." Some kind of stupid DRM was encoded onto each (nearly) blank disc.
 
LandoLincoln said:
Actually, there were some burners on the market that only used "music" blank CD's. My brother in law had a stereo component that burned audio CD's but it would only accept the special CD's that were branded "music." Some kind of stupid DRM was encoded onto each (nearly) blank disc.
Click to expand...
hmm ok I got one....
home depot sells a 50a gfci protected spa panel for $59... the same 50a gfci breaker without the included spa panel box is $90?? located on the same shelf.
marketing? its like contractor grade vs consumer... sometimes there a quality difference and sometimes that difference is a non issue for the application.

Marketing is bigger than any actual product these days... look at autolite sparkplugs... bought by honeywell and shut down except for some engineers... now that are all made by the cheapest bidders in 3rd word countries under contract and license to use the name... I bought 4 plugs for my old kitcar and found even though they were the same part number they looked different and were made in 3 different countries!
FRAM oil filters... they are one of the poorest made highest failure filters made from paper/cardboard and glue and often fall apart and filter little.... but most consumers think they are one of the best brands.they are smart and spend more on marketing than the product... why? marketing and a brand name that once meant something resembling quality. (also now owned by honeywell)
 
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Mojzis said:
I just sifted through the arguments and found this stated earlier. :smack:
Click to expand...
ok... says that manufatuer and there is no reason for that statement... 30a ans 1500v is 30a and 1500v... as long as it rated that at a continuious load it makes no difference what its powering=speaker, amplifier, heating element or otherwise...

manufacturers also often say not use a competitors product with theirs.... they make ridiculous statements about not having best results that often have no real basis.... And for reasons like that you have people that wont mix brands... for example I know a guy with a Dell computer that thinks he needs dell branded mouse and keyboard... and how many people thing you need to use a samsung brand dvd player with a samsung tv.... you may think its funny but people are impressionable especially when they feel intimidated about a product or technology. Otherwise intelligent people dont alway think for themselves in cases like this.

Whats the difference between 14 gauge speaker wire and 14 gauge power wire??

Marketing and price.
 
Mojzis said:
I just sifted through the arguments and found this stated earlier. :smack:

What's the consensus on being able to attach these securely? Or should one go with the 20A and 30A power cons?
Click to expand...

Probably repeating what has already been said. The Neutrik PowerCons are officially rated for purpose (mains power). Unfortunately, last time I looked they only made a 3-pole version, so it would not be suitable for powering a 4-wire control panel. It is certainly a good solution for a 3-wire control panel, and for powering the heating elements.
 
Thanks augie.

FWIW Neutrik sells the NAC3FX-W:

The powerCON TRUE1 is a locking waterproof 16/20 A true mains connector. It replaces appliance couplers wherever a very rugged solution in combination with a locking device is needed in order to guarantee a safe power connection.

The powerCON TRUE1 is a connector with breaking capacity (CBC), i.e. it can be connected or disconnected under load or live.

True mains connector with breaking capacity (CBC)
Lockable 16 A single phase connector (USA: 20 A)
Dust and water resistant according to IP65 in mated condition
Easy and reliable twist lock system
Extremely robust and reliable
Unique Neutrik cable retention
ENEC certified according to IEC 60320
UL recognized components

On a quick search i'm seeing ~9$ for the male connector.

Edit: I didn't check if these were also 3 pole.
 
Man, I didn't know they were that cheap. I was expecting them to be more along the lines of the ridiculous flanged receptacles and ~30 bucks a pop.
 
augiedoggy said:
Whats the difference between 14 gauge speaker wire and 14 gauge power wire??

Marketing and price.
Click to expand...

Depends...

Two things come immediately to mind, abrasion resistance of jacket and voltage rating of insulation.

"Power wire" almost certainly can be used for speaker wire, but "speaker wire" may not be appropriate for power wire.
 
Temperature rating of insulation may also be a factor. For connecting to hot things like electric elements butyl insulation is often recommended. AFAIK this is not available for speaker wire.
 
whoaru99 said:
Depends...

Two things come immediately to mind, abrasion resistance of jacket and voltage rating of insulation.

"Power wire" almost certainly can be used for speaker wire, but "speaker wire" may not be appropriate for power wire.
Click to expand...
Yes this is true. I wasnt thinking about that.... But the speaker wire if anything would have inferior insulation yet will almost always cost more than lamp cord or power wire of the same gauge which has better insulation...and that was my point.

Realistically the insulation type is a non issue in most enviroments when it comes to that kind of power wire... if your going to be replacing a lamp cord or light appliance cord the real wek point is at the plug end or the end where is may be spliced together with an existing cord. still, point made and I stand corrected.
 
I know that this is a REALLY OLD THREAD and all, but...in the off-chance that someone comes upon this and thinks that these switchcraft plugs are the bees knees...

I installed these on my electric rig around July of 2013. I installed male plugs on the ends of my cables for both the BK and HLT and installed female receptacles on the control panel and on small electrical boxes that connected to the vessels via weldless methodology (nut, o-ring, washer.)

Around May of 2014 the receptacle that was on my BK failed me during a boil, which was really frustrating. I think it was the contacts on the inside of the receptacle not contacting with the contacts on the male plug. I was wanting a way to remove the BK heating element for better cleaning anyway, so instead of replacing the receptacle with a new switchcraft receptacle I purchased a Brewhardware heating element enclosure with the soldered tri-clover thingy and got rid of the electrical box. Ugh! The nasty crap that was hiding behind that nut! If you have weldless connections on your boil kettle or mash tun, then it's a really good idea to remove them periodically and clean them thoroughly!

So this past weekend my HLT wasn't able to get up to temp, and I couldn't figure out why. I'd turn off the PID, unplug the cable, plug it back in, turn on the PID, and then it would work some more getting the temp higher, but it wouldn't get to my mash temps. Fearing once again that the receptacle failed me, I decided to bypass the male plug and female receptacle and wired the cord directly to the heating element and voila...it worked. I haven't fully investigated yet if the male plug malfunctioned or the female receptacle malfunctioned or maybe both. The crimp connections looked fine, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't that.

I'm now going to replace the HLT heating element connection with the same BrewHardware connection and am going to replace the switchcraft connectors with the more robust (and expensive) Neutrik PowerCon connectors.

These switchcraft plugs work, for a while. They never really do "lock" into place, though. Had to resort to other means to make sure that they stayed snugly connected to the control panel and vessels. I wouldn't ultimately recommend them.
 
Sucks that you had such a bad experience with them. I've been using them for a year now and love them. I think i'm using ~5 sets, including one to connect or disconnect from the back of the boil kettle which I unplug every brew day.

All of my connections lock into place well and so far haven't failed. Now i'll be weary and have a spare ready.
 

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