Oops! Kg's not Lbs of grain- did I save it?

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VorTheLaufOfBeer

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Hello All,

Background: trying to brew and Avery Clone, accidentally doubled grain.

Problem:
I had brewed two batches previously without a hitch and everything seemed to be going wonderfully when my first runnings were 2 gallons less than they should have been. Working backwards to find what happened using how much water was absorbed I realized I had had about 23 pounds of grain instead of the intended amount of 11.5.

Solution:
I had extra brewing water and hops on hand, looked up a hop schedule for a double IPA and changed the boil time to 90 minutes from the planned 60.
I double pitched san Diego super yeast after ice bath.
Og: 1.074
Fg before secondary 1.014

It is now sitting in secondary fermentation since about 8/14 and I plan to dry hop 4 or five days before bottling.

To make a short question long: Did I save my beer and is it going to taste too sweet?

Thanks for any guidance or feedback.
 
Hello All,

Background: trying to brew and Avery Clone, accidentally doubled grain.

Problem:
I had brewed two batches previously without a hitch and everything seemed to be going wonderfully when my first runnings were 2 gallons less than they should have been. Working backwards to find what happened using how much water was absorbed I realized I had had about 23 pounds of grain instead of the intended amount of 11.5.

Solution:
I had extra brewing water and hops on hand, looked up a hop schedule for a double IPA and changed the boil time to 90 minutes from the planned 60.
I double pitched san Diego super yeast after ice bath.
Og: 1.074
Fg before secondary 1.014

It is now sitting in secondary fermentation since about 8/14 and I plan to dry hop 4 or five days before bottling.

To make a short question long: Did I save my beer and is it going to taste too sweet?

Thanks for any guidance or feedback.

Pitching rate vs. OG?
 
I used 2 liquid yeast viles(roughly a billion each) of Sandiego super yeast for about 3 gallons of beer(I was appalled how much trub there was left after racking to primary and then after racking to secondary)
I am still very much a beginner and my next research binge will be about yeast and fermentation.
Thoughts?
 
I used 2 liquid yeast viles(roughly a billion each) of Sandiego super yeast for about 3 gallons of beer(I was appalled how much trub there was left after racking to primary and then after racking to secondary)
I am still very much a beginner and my next research binge will be about yeast and fermentation.
Thoughts?

You'll be OK with two viles. Howcome not make a starter out of one? ;)
 
I've been intimidated by starters because I feel like it's one more step that could go wrong. upcoming research binge on Yeats is eminent.
 
I used 2 liquid yeast viles(roughly a billion each)

Not quite. :) Vials of White Labs yeast typically have between 70 and 140 billion cells. I like to use the lower-end estimate to make sure I have enough cells, as underpitching is much worse than overpitching, in my opinion/experience.

Running some quick numbers, using the rule of thumb of 4 billion cells per point of gravity per 5 gallon batch, you would need:

4 billion * 74 * 3/5 = 178 billion

2 vials would yield between 140 and 280 billion cells, so you should be fine.

I was appalled how much trub there was left after racking to primary and then after racking to secondary

Why bother racking to secondary at all? Many brewers just leave the beer in primary the entire time, letting the sediment and yeast compact and giving the beer more time undisturbed to settle out clear, then going directly to bottling/kegging from primary.
 
I've struggled with whether or not to secondary. What I've read has said typically not to as it exposes the beer to infection. My thought was that if ever there were a beer that may benefit it will be this accidental double IPA. I also typically forego a bottling bucket because of equipment limitations but plan to reinvest soon.
My thought was that getting rid of some old primary trub would lead to stirring up less gunk while mixing in the priming solution. Thoughts on this line of thought?

People seem of different minds on secondary including John Palmer depending on when you read him.
I plan to look up a thread on secondary but would appreciate hearing about any experiences y'all may have had with high gravity beers or beers racked to secondary.

Cheers[emoji482]
-VorTheLauf
 
My thought was that getting rid of some old primary trub would lead to stirring up less gunk while mixing in the priming solution. Thoughts on this line of thought?

Hmm, I'm not sure you understand the bottling process correctly. Either that, or I'm misunderstanding what you're describing.

Normally, the beer ferments in a bucket or carboy. Once it's done, things settle out to the bottom. When you're ready to bottle, you prepare the priming solution (by simply boiling the prescribed amount of sugar in water and letting it cool) and pour it into your (empty) bottling bucket (often with a spigot, but not necessarily). Then, you gently transfer the beer (using a siphon) into the bottling bucket at the bottom. As you do this, the beer swirls around (again, GENTLY; no splashing or bubbles!), mixing with the priming sugar solution.

As you're transferring the beer, you keep the input end of the siphon just an inch or two below the surface of the beer being transferred. This is the clearest part of the beer. The trub, yeast, and sediment are at the bottom of the fermenter, and should not be getting sucked up and transferred. Once you reach the very last bit of beer to transfer, you may pick up a little bit of the yeast/trub at the bottom, but it shouldn't amount to very much.

Once the beer has been transferred to the bottling bucket, you bottle it using the siphon, or a spigot on the bucket (if so equipped).

The way you described it, specifically where you described your concern of "stirring up less gunk while mixing in the priming solution," makes me wonder if you're instead mixing the priming solution right into the beer, in the primary fermenter, and then bottling from there. That would, of course, indeed stir up junk from the bottom, but is not the usual way of priming and bottling beer.

I plan to look up a thread on secondary

LOL, take your pick, you've lots of variety to choose from. :)

but would appreciate hearing about any experiences y'all may have had with high gravity beers or beers racked to secondary.

I rarely secondary my beers. It's kind of an anachronism in homebrewing, still done mainly out of misunderstanding. There's a myth that it results in clearer beer, but if you think about it scientifically, that doesn't make any sense. Why would a beer be clearer if you disturb it halfway through the process? How could the presence of yeast and trub at the bottom of the fermenter affect whether or not yeast/sediment still in solution precipitate out? Forgive me for quoting myself, but this comes up often and I don't feel like typing it all out again, but this is me from another thread on this topic:

kombat said:
If anything, racking to secondary would be detrimental to clarity.

Think about it. The beer is in primary. During fermentation, everything's swirling around. Fermentation winds down, and there's yeast and trub mixed evenly throughout the beer. Things start falling out of suspension. The stuff at the bottom falls out first, because it has the least distance to travel. The stuff at the top has a long way to fall, so it takes a while. The beer clears from the top down. If left long enough (or sped up with cold crashing), eventually all of that stuff will make its way down to the bottom of the fermenter.

Now, imagine if halfway through, you racked all that beer to another vessel. Now everything that was still in suspension is mixed evenly throughout again. Some of the matter that had already fallen halfway down must now start all over again, falling from the top.

There's no scientific basis for the notion that beer will clear faster if you transfer it halfway through the process. Big breweries do it to a) free up expensive fermenters for the next batch, and b) because of dramatically higher hydrostatic and osmotic pressures on the yeast that accelerate yeast autolysis. Such pressures don't exist on the homebrew scale, so the reasons are inapplicable.

And here are my valid reasons for employing a secondary vessel:

kombat said:
  • You have a limited number of expensive fermenters, and you need to free one up for another batch.
  • You want to re-use the yeast, but the beer it's currently in is still conditioning.
  • You plan on adding post-fermentation flavourings (fruit, dry hops, wood chips) to the beer, but want to re-use the yeast, so you rack it to secondary to separate the beer from the yeast, so you can re-use the yeast before contaminating it with the flavourings.
  • You plan on adding post-fermentation flavourings (fruit, dry hops, wood chips) to the beer, but you're worried about suppressing the flavour infusion if they drop to the bottom and sink into the yeast cake, flavouring the yeast instead of the beer.
  • You plan on aging the beer for an extended period of time (2 months+) and are worried about eventual yeast autolysis producing off-flavours in the beer.
 
Hmm, I'm not sure you understand the bottling process correctly. Either that, or I'm misunderstanding what you're describing.



Normally, the beer ferments in a bucket or carboy. Once it's done, things settle out to the bottom. When you're ready to bottle, you prepare the priming solution (by simply boiling the prescribed amount of sugar in water and letting it cool) and pour it into your (empty) bottling bucket (often with a spigot, but not necessarily). Then, you gently transfer the beer (using a siphon) into the bottling bucket at the bottom. As you do this, the beer swirls around (again, GENTLY; no splashing or bubbles!), mixing with the priming sugar solution.



As you're transferring the beer, you keep the input end of the siphon just an inch or two below the surface of the beer being transferred. This is the clearest part of the beer. The trub, yeast, and sediment are at the bottom of the fermenter, and should not be getting sucked up and transferred. Once you reach the very last bit of beer to transfer, you may pick up a little bit of the yeast/trub at the bottom, but it shouldn't amount to very much.



Once the beer has been transferred to the bottling bucket, you bottle it using the siphon, or a spigot on the bucket (if so equipped).



The way you described it, specifically where you described your concern of "stirring up less gunk while mixing in the priming solution," makes me wonder if you're instead mixing the priming solution right into the beer, in the primary fermenter, and then bottling from there. That would, of course, indeed stir up junk from the bottom, but is not the usual way of priming and bottling beer.


Response:
My thought has been that, because I have not used a bottling bucket, I have put the priming solution into the fermentor and stirred with a sanitized utensil(part of a sanitized autosipohon). The risks I've perceived from this are stirring up some trub while attempting to mix in the priming solution as well as poorly diffused priming solution. During the bottling process the siphon tip has remained just enough below the surface of the beer to pull the clearest for as long as possible. Thanks for the input and please correct any fundamental misunderstandings I may posses.

I know this is far from best practice but given what I've been working with it has appeared to be the option I had. Thoughts on this process?

After hearing Kombats thoughts I think purchase of a bottling bucket is imminent.

-alex
 
I've struggled with whether or not to secondary. What I've read has said typically not to as it exposes the beer to infection. My thought was that if ever there were a beer that may benefit it will be this accidental double IPA. I also typically forego a bottling bucket because of equipment limitations but plan to reinvest soon.
My thought was that getting rid of some old primary trub would lead to stirring up less gunk while mixing in the priming solution. Thoughts on this line of thought?

People seem of different minds on secondary including John Palmer depending on when you read him.
I plan to look up a thread on secondary but would appreciate hearing about any experiences y'all may have had with high gravity beers or beers racked to secondary.

Cheers[emoji482]
-VorTheLauf

I've never racked to secondary. I'm from Denmark and nobody here does (anymore) not even with Barleywines :D 14 days on the primary (or until steady FG) and then cold crash for 4-5 days at 33°F and there's absolutely no gunk in suspension (but enough yeast to carbonate though)

Wasn't his name Yates? :D
 
I think there is a Richard Yates and then a William butler Yeats.
But I digress.
Thanks for your advice and kind words.
I cracked one of them last night . It has been about a week since we bottled and it looks like everything is moving on schedule.
The beer is sweet which I expected, but that has been balanced out a bit by the hops. It has a strong bitter taste and a very floral hop aroma you can smell as soon as you crack the bottle. Dry hopping with mandarina bavaria(sp?) definitely helped.
Final abv was 7.4.
Thanks for the advice and count this beer officially saved.
-Alex
 
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