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When people talk about efficiency I read about 4 different types so witch one are they talking about when they say I am getting .....
brew house efficiency
pre boil efficiency
ending kettle efficiency
conversion efficiency

thanks
Jim




RichBrewer said:
I've seen a lot of threads started concerning problems with peoples first all grain brews.
I would like to give a couple suggestions that might help improve the process for new AG brewers. Here are a couple common problems I've seen:

1. Low efficiency.
I have found that the most common thread here is not using enough water during mashing and sparging. All you need to do is figure 1 to 1 1/4 quarts of water per pound of grain for the mash and about 1/2 gallon of water per pound of grain for sparging.
I think some folks are concerned about too much wort volume when they are figuring how much water to use but if you want decent efficiency you have to use the correct amount of water.
If your brew pot isn't big enough for the volume required you will need to compensate by using more grain and know that your efficiency will be lower. (You will want to use the 1 to 1 1/4 quart per pound of grain for the mash and adjust your sparge water for the volume required)
If you have a large enough brew pot you will need to calculate the boil time so you will have the correct volume when completed. Some high gravity brews can take 2 hours or more to boil down to the correct volume.
2. Missing the mash temperature. (Usually low when using cooler type mash tuns)
To avoid this common problem there are two things I suggest:
1. Pre-heat your mash tun with hot or boiling water. This water is drained from the tun right before the strike water is added. Using this method will pre-heat the tun so not as much heat will be pulled from the strike water when added .
2. Heat your strike water about 2 or 3 degrees above your target temp, pour the water into the tun, and let the temp drop to your target. By the time you reach your strike temp, the tun should be conditioned and when the grains are mixed in you will hit your desired mash temp and it will hold longer.

I hope this helps for you first timers or even folks who are struggling with AG brewing. :mug:
Click to expand...
 
Do you really mean 1/2G of sparge water per lb of grain? What if I'm doing a "double batch" (10G) of a high gravity beer? I could easily have 30+ lbs of grain for a mash like this. Am I really to sparge with 15G of water? I'll end up with 20G+ of wort for the boil! This will be WAY too much to get down to 10.5G of cooled wort. I guess I'm still a little confused. Efficiency is a BIG problem of mine.
 
ADemon said:
Do you really mean 1/2G of sparge water per lb of grain? What if I'm doing a "double batch" (10G) of a high gravity beer? I could easily have 30+ lbs of grain for a mash like this. Am I really to sparge with 15G of water? I'll end up with 20G+ of wort for the boil! This will be WAY too much to get down to 10.5G of cooled wort. I guess I'm still a little confused. Efficiency is a BIG problem of mine.
Click to expand...

Unfortuately, that post doesn't say whether he's talking about batch or fly sparging. For batch sparging, try this...mash with about 1.6 qt./lb. Measure how much runoff you get from the mash and subtract that from your intended boil volume. The answer you get is how much sparge water to use. That method gets me an average of 83% effieincy, along with a very fine crush. BTW, crush is the #1 factor in efficiency.
 
I am about to start my first AG brew. It has 13.25 pounds of grains (including speciality) and using 1.1 quarts per pound I would start with 14.57 quarts of water. For the half gallon per pound, that would give me 6.6 gallons of sparge water. This is a 5 gallon kit. So I just start off with the 14.5 quarts and then add the grains... but how do I know when to stop sparging?? starting off with 3.6 gallons (14.5 quarts) I should really only need about 2 gallons more for my pot and I would achieve the amount I need to achieve 5 gallons. So do I just stop sparging when I reach my pre-boil amount? How do I calculate my efficiency?
 
CoastalEmpireBrewery said:
I am about to start my first AG brew. It has 13.25 pounds of grains (including speciality) and using 1.1 quarts per pound I would start with 14.57 quarts of water. For the half gallon per pound, that would give me 6.6 gallons of sparge water. This is a 5 gallon kit. So I just start off with the 14.5 quarts and then add the grains... but how do I know when to stop sparging?? starting off with 3.6 gallons (14.5 quarts) I should really only need about 2 gallons more for my pot and I would achieve the amount I need to achieve 5 gallons. So do I just stop sparging when I reach my pre-boil amount? How do I calculate my efficiency?
Click to expand...

The grain will absorb, and not release, some of your mash water. And my mashtun still has 1/2 gal in it when I've drained as much as possible, even without grain. And your pre-boil volume should be more than 6 gallons. If you are using brew software and enter all your equipment, it should take these things into account and give you an efficiency calculator.

For your first time, don't be too hard on yourself if you don't nail efficiency and pre-boil volume perfectly. That requires perfect temp control, etc. For my first AG batch, I had to boil down from over 8 gallons. I therefore had to wait to add 60 minute hops, etc... Still, it turned out very yummy, and I was pleased.
 
I have found using a mash calculator is useful when determining the proper strike water temp as they take the temperature of the grain into consideration. I use this one http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml. Even using the calculator I normally go a degree or two higher to account for heat loss while moving the water from the HLT to the Mash Tun.
 
It's been a while and the info is somewhere in this thread but not on first or last page:

What's the common theory on water temperature to add to mash? Something like 12 degrees over target when using a cooler mashtun?

Sorry for the laziness and thanks in advance.

Edit: I suppose I could use the link immediately above my post.
 
Definitely use a mash calculator. Its a great starting point or a good backup to long math you might already be doing. Bear in mind, once the grain hits the strike water, if youre in a plastic cooler, ie not in a kettle over a burner, being a lil bit high and getting it to cool down to target is a WHOLE lot easier than raising the temps. And dont attempt to raise the temps by adding water, its nearly impossible. Rather pull some, slowly raise it to boil, and add it back in. Almost like a decoction. To start, I heat the whole amount of strike and sparge plus some extra to about 190 and then put it in the cooler, close it up and let it sit for bout 15 min to preheat the cooler. Drain it off (leaving behind the water that wont normally drain out(mssh tun loss), heat it to strike, put the correct volume in (at as much as 5 degrees too high) let it stabilize, then add my grain. Close it ,let it sit for 5 min and see what Ive got. Keep it if its right, stir it open to cool it or accept the temp if its a lil bit too low. Over time, you'll get to know your equipment and find efficient ways of doing this and shortcuts.
 
mike_in_ak said:
It's been a while and the info is somewhere in this thread but not on first or last page:

What's the common theory on water temperature to add to mash? Something like 12 degrees over target when using a cooler mashtun?

Sorry for the laziness and thanks in advance.

Edit: I suppose I could use the link immediately above my post.
Click to expand...

It depends entirely on your equipment. For my 48 qt. cooler, it's about 13F. For my 70 qt., it's more like 18F. I do not preheat.
 
I've been brewing all grains for a little while now but have only done a Hef and a couple other ales. I'm no expert but I'm always looking for beginner's guides or help just in case. I did find a little epub that was a good straight forward read for beginning all grain brewers, might want to check it out cuz it does go over some basic equipment and theory.

www.amazon.com/Scratch-Batch-Beginn...&qid=1389899431&sr=8-1&keywords=scratch+batch

In my experience I've found that sometimes too much information can cloud the brewing process. If beer was discovered by mistake thousands of years ago, sometimes just experimenting with smaller batches is best.

Just my two cents.
 
after 5 yrs of PM I finally have a pot large enough for AG. Embarking on my first AG batch I was unable to do my normal extensive record keeping routine as I had baby sitting duty for a 3 yr and two 1 yr olds. I got them involved with water chem, grinding, mashing, pitching, sanitation, etc. Talk about uncontrolable variables! After a full 12 hour brew day (my longest ever) I realized it was by far my most enjoyable brew session.

My take away notes: 1) Don't be consumed with the details and share your hobby with someone. 2) Embrace unplanned beer character created through brew day randomness.

O^e.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app
 
Unibrew said:
after 5 yrs of PM I finally have a pot large enough for AG. Embarking on my first AG batch I was unable to do my normal extensive record keeping routine as I had baby sitting duty for a 3 yr and two 1 yr olds. I got them involved with water chem, grinding, mashing, pitching, sanitation, etc. Talk about uncontrolable variables! After a full 12 hour brew day (my longest ever) I realized it was by far my most enjoyable brew session.

My take away notes: 1) Don't be consumed with the details and share your hobby with someone. 2) Embrace unplanned beer character created through brew day randomness.
Click to expand...

I don't think the mobile app let's me "like" a post, so I'm dropping a +1 the old fashioned way.
 
So, I recently bought Northern Brewer's 10 gal All Grain cooler set up. I've watched videos, read books, and read this thread completely. I still have a question or two. I've seen all sorts of set ups, and some use gravity while others use pumps to move liquids around. I intend to use gravity and a single burner. My first question is, when using a tiered, gravity system with coolers, do you fill your HLT up and then lift it up onto your top tier, or do you use a small pot to move 2-4 quarts at a time? My guess is using sauce pan and moving in small quantities, but want to confirm and see if there are better techniques (other than lifting 50+ pounds of water in the cooler) until I buy a pump. Speaking of pumps, my second question is can most home brew pumps create enough pressure to lift liquid up the 4-6 feet or so from my burner/kettle to my ladder shelf where the HLT will be? My basic plan is HLT on a ladder shelf (Gorilla ladder, heavy duty metal shelf) about 5' off the ground my MLT on a table about 3' off and my kettle on a burner, about 1' off the ground. Sound right? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

Rob
 
I am using 2 10 gallon igloo coolers and a 15 gallon blichmann pot ImageUploadedByHome Brew1390973320.859251.jpg

She's moving right along! Hopefully she does explode out
 
NavyRob said:
So, I recently bought Northern Brewer's 10 gal All Grain cooler set up. I've watched videos, read books, and read this thread completely. I still have a question or two. I've seen all sorts of set ups, and some use gravity while others use pumps to move liquids around. I intend to use gravity and a single burner. My first question is, when using a tiered, gravity system with coolers, do you fill your HLT up and then lift it up onto your top tier, or do you use a small pot to move 2-4 quarts at a time? My guess is using sauce pan and moving in small quantities, but want to confirm and see if there are better techniques (other than lifting 50+ pounds of water in the cooler) until I buy a pump. Speaking of pumps, my second question is can most home brew pumps create enough pressure to lift liquid up the 4-6 feet or so from my burner/kettle to my ladder shelf where the HLT will be? My basic plan is HLT on a ladder shelf (Gorilla ladder, heavy duty metal shelf) about 5' off the ground my MLT on a table about 3' off and my kettle on a burner, about 1' off the ground. Sound right? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

Rob
Click to expand...

Moving it a few quarts at a time will let it cool too much. I just lift it up, but my preference is to brew with a friend who will help me lift!
 
Always heat more water than you think you will need...just in case of spillage, etc. It came in handy for my first AG batch....thanks for the heads up on these issues....
 
This is my first thread I've subscribed to on this forum, which also happens to be my first forum experience ever. But I have a quick question. I'm preparing to get my supplies for my first AG batch, i.e. my coolers, a larger kettle, the valves, etc., but I'm not sure what size coolers I should go with. Currently, I only brew five gallon batches (most often two at a time, seeing as I have two five gal carboys and the rest of the equipment necessary for a partial mash batch. If I wanted to do a five gallon batch, would I need to use five gallon coolers? Or would I be able to buy the 7 gal or possibly even the 10 gal and still use them for a five gallon batch, but not have to worry about upgrading when I move up to larger batches.

Thanks guys, I appreciate this thread! Very informative for a first timer forum user. Also, I'm sorry if this was already covered...I haven't read through the entire thread.

-Scott
 
for 5 gal batches I have been using a 10 gal mash tun (bayou classic), draining my wort into a bucket, rinsing out the mash tun then boiling in the mash tun. If I wrap the mash tun in some kind of insulation it doesn't loose much heat in 1 hour of mashing.

In any case you can definitely mash a 5 gal batch in a 10 gal cooler. You can also mash most 10 gal recipes in a 10 gal cooler too depending on your efficiency and target gravity.
 
barnaclebob said:
for 5 gal batches I have been using a 10 gal mash tun (bayou classic), draining my wort into a bucket, rinsing out the mash tun then boiling in the mash tun. If I wrap the mash tun in some kind of insulation it doesn't loose much heat in 1 hour of mashing.

In any case you can definitely mash a 5 gal batch in a 10 gal cooler. You can also mash most 10 gal recipes in a 10 gal cooler too depending on your efficiency and target gravity.
Click to expand...

Awesome, BarnacleBob! I appreciate the information. That's exactly what I was looking for.

-Scott
 
barnaclebob said:
for 5 gal batches I have been using a 10 gal mash tun (bayou classic), draining my wort into a bucket, rinsing out the mash tun then boiling in the mash tun. If I wrap the mash tun in some kind of insulation it doesn't loose much heat in 1 hour of mashing.

In any case you can definitely mash a 5 gal batch in a 10 gal cooler. You can also mash most 10 gal recipes in a 10 gal cooler too depending on your efficiency and target gravity.
Click to expand...

I agree with barnaclebob. I have brewed some 5 gallon batches in which my 10 gallon Tun was well over 1/2 full.
Good luck and let us know how it goes. :mug:
 
We use 10 gal igloos for 11 gal batches (yes they are full to the top). They hold the Mash Temp very well, especially compared to a SS Mash Tun (We also have a 30 gal Stout MLT and a HERMS). I think without additional heat, a RIMS or HERMS system, SS would lose way too much heat for a good MASH.
 
Sprangs said:
This is my first thread I've subscribed to on this forum, which also happens to be my first forum experience ever. But I have a quick question. I'm preparing to get my supplies for my first AG batch, i.e. my coolers, a larger kettle, the valves, etc., but I'm not sure what size coolers I should go with. Currently, I only brew five gallon batches (most often two at a time, seeing as I have two five gal carboys and the rest of the equipment necessary for a partial mash batch. If I wanted to do a five gallon batch, would I need to use five gallon coolers? Or would I be able to buy the 7 gal or possibly even the 10 gal and still use them for a five gallon batch, but not have to worry about upgrading when I move up to larger batches.

Thanks guys, I appreciate this thread! Very informative for a first timer forum user. Also, I'm sorry if this was already covered...I haven't read through the entire thread.

-Scott
Click to expand...

I recommend a 52-70 qt. rectangular cooler. Equally effective (maybe moreso), and more volume for your money than a round cooler. Set it up like this...www.dennybrew.com
 
Thank you everyone for your awesome advice. I actually bought the 10 gallon coolers this afternoon and almost have them rigged up and ready!

-Scott
 
Hi I'm new here and live in the uk nearly ready to do my first all grain brew looking for a simple one to start me of I like bitter and pale ales so can you guys help me thanks chris
 
Check out the recipe forum here. The Centennial Blonde recipe is very popular, as is the Bee Cave Brewery Pale Ale, which was my first brew. Alternatively, you could brew something from the book Brewing Classic Styles. It has a simple recipe (or two) for every style, mostly targeted at the middle of the style guidelines. Just pick something you like that's medium or low gravity and have a go at it. Good luck!
 
RichBrewer said:
I've seen a lot of threads started concerning problems with peoples first all grain brews.
I would like to give a couple suggestions that might help improve the process for new AG brewers. Here are a couple common problems I've seen:

1. Low efficiency.
I have found that the most common thread here is not using enough water during mashing and sparging. All you need to do is figure 1 to 1 1/4 quarts of water per pound of grain for the mash and about 1/2 gallon of water per pound of grain for sparging.
I think some folks are concerned about too much wort volume when they are figuring how much water to use but if you want decent efficiency you have to use the correct amount of water.
If your brew pot isn't big enough for the volume required you will need to compensate by using more grain and know that your efficiency will be lower. (You will want to use the 1 to 1 1/4 quart per pound of grain for the mash and adjust your sparge water for the volume required)
If you have a large enough brew pot you will need to calculate the boil time so you will have the correct volume when completed. Some high gravity brews can take 2 hours or more to boil down to the correct volume.

I am going to follow these instructions for my next brew as I am consistently low on my efficiency. Any special guidelines for sparging/runoff? I.E., would this be just one run-off, and how long to let the sparge water sit before the runoff?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
 
Mofoa said:
RichBrewer said:
I've seen a lot of threads started concerning problems with peoples first all grain brews.
I would like to give a couple suggestions that might help improve the process for new AG brewers. Here are a couple common problems I've seen:

1. Low efficiency.
I have found that the most common thread here is not using enough water during mashing and sparging. All you need to do is figure 1 to 1 1/4 quarts of water per pound of grain for the mash and about 1/2 gallon of water per pound of grain for sparging.
I think some folks are concerned about too much wort volume when they are figuring how much water to use but if you want decent efficiency you have to use the correct amount of water.
If your brew pot isn't big enough for the volume required you will need to compensate by using more grain and know that your efficiency will be lower. (You will want to use the 1 to 1 1/4 quart per pound of grain for the mash and adjust your sparge water for the volume required)
If you have a large enough brew pot you will need to calculate the boil time so you will have the correct volume when completed. Some high gravity brews can take 2 hours or more to boil down to the correct volume.

I am going to follow these instructions for my next brew as I am consistently low on my efficiency. Any special guidelines for sparging/runoff? I.E., would this be just one run-off, and how long to let the sparge water sit before the runoff?

Thank you!
Click to expand...

Using more mash water (minimum 1.65 qt./lb.) raised my effieincy several points. But the biggest factor is grain crush. That's always the first thing to look at.
Click to expand...
 
christhebrewer53 said:
Hi I'm new here and live in the uk nearly ready to do my first all grain brew looking for a simple one to start me of I like bitter and pale ales so can you guys help me thanks chris
Click to expand...

My suggestion is to brew something you can directly compare to, whether that is a readily available commercial beer that you like, or something you've brewed as an extract version and still have some on hand. Brew something with a simple grain bill and simple boil additions. That will allow you to focus your attention on the process and not additions-timing. Make sure to ready all of your equipment ahead of time. Test your mash tun and boil kettle for leaks. Determine your kettle's boil-off rate by boiling plain water. Dial in your burner settings so that you can achieve a nice, rolling boil without causing a boil over. Get some Fermcap-S and/or a spray bottle filled with distilled water in case you do experience conditions where a boil over is imminent. Stirring also can tamp down an imminent boil over. Be especially careful when adding hops and Whirlfloc, as they create oodles of nucleation points that can lead to boil overs. Fermcap, a ready spray bottle and stirring can all help prevent they before they turn into a messy disaster if you're aware and at the ready. It all seems overwhelming at first, but adequate preparation and an easy first brew day will give you the confidence boost to tackle bigger, more complicated brews in the future.
 
Mofoa said:
Denny said:
Thank you Denny.
Click to expand...

After recently creating a Brew-Day Checklist that I can use for each recipe, I think this helped me to stay focused while not forgetting crucial steps. From checking inventory and ensuring I milled my grain fine ahead of time, this saved time and help avert some surprises (i.e broken racking cane/turkey baster).

Days prior to brewday, I calculated all my temps and volume water (for both strike and sparge) needed (using 1.65 qt/lb grain). I added a comments section to each step as to dropping down notes as I went along. This kept me on target for next steps. Once I hit my strike water--we were in business (also making note to stir and stir and do another stir at 30 minutes) and once mashing was complete, I had my 190 degree sparge water ready.

Making notes of water collected/temperature/OG--even noted the time, temperature outside, and whether it was windy or not.

Well, after following the checklist and advice here, yesterday, I hit a mash efficiency of 74% using the batch sparging method. :)

Now, I just need to work on hitting my OG.
Click to expand...
 
Mofoa said:
Mofoa said:
After recently creating a Brew-Day Checklist that I can use for each recipe, I think this helped me to stay focused while not forgetting crucial steps. From checking inventory and ensuring I milled my grain fine ahead of time, this saved time and help avert some surprises (i.e broken racking cane/turkey baster).

Days prior to brewday, I calculated all my temps and volume water (for both strike and sparge) needed (using 1.65 qt/lb grain). I added a comments section to each step as to dropping down notes as I went along. This kept me on target for next steps. Once I hit my strike water--we were in business (also making note to stir and stir and do another stir at 30 minutes) and once mashing was complete, I had my 190 degree sparge water ready.

Making notes of water collected/temperature/OG--even noted the time, temperature outside, and whether it was windy or not.

Well, after following the checklist and advice here, yesterday, I hit a mash efficiency of 74% using the batch sparging method. :)

Now, I just need to work on hitting my OG.
Click to expand...

Would you mind sharing the checklist you created? I'm sure it could be very helpful to newer AG brewers.
Click to expand...
 
There is something I still can't figure out about mashing. The water for mashout, to get the temp up to 175 or so before sparging to stop the saccharification... is that amount of water included in the recommended amounts here? I just always end up boiling a couple extra gallons during the mash and using that for mashout. Is that the right way to do it? This water is never spec'd put when I have used Beer Smith, and so I really begin to wonder how most people do it when mashing in a cooler.
 
Trippel-A said:
There is something I still can't figure out about mashing. The water for mashout, to get the temp up to 175 or so before sparging to stop the saccharification... is that amount of water included in the recommended amounts here? I just always end up boiling a couple extra gallons during the mash and using that for mashout. Is that the right way to do it? This water is never spec'd put when I have used Beer Smith, and so I really begin to wonder how most people do it when mashing in a cooler.
Click to expand...

In BS, when you check the type of mash you are doing, don't use "no mashout". It will always include a mashout step unless you tell it not to.
 

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