Idophor ... Wort tastes like butt

I recently got two new conicals from stout tanks and am working on getting my processes down. On their website they recommend idophor instead of star San. I've done two previous batches in the conicals one with idophor and one with star San. Last night I did a big bAtch and forgot to take a reading until after I transferred wort to the fermenter.

The wort tastes like a$$! Tastes like idophor! Is this something that will go away during fermentation? Will it inhibit the yeast growth in wondering? In the previous batch I did I didn't taste the wort going in at all.

Tasteless and odorless .... Yeah right. I won't be using this stuff again I'll tell ya that but am worried I botched this batch because of it.

The instructions say 1/4 oz (1.5 tsp) per 2.5 gallons of water for a 12ppm titration or 1/2 oz (3tsp) for 25ppm titration. I did just under 2 tsp in 2 to 2.5 gallons of water. I poured it in the conical (14.5 gallon) and periodically took a soft cloth and soaked the inside walls with it letting it run down the sides. Did this randomly throughout the brew session, then once before transferring wort, then I drained it from the bottom dump valve. On the previous batch I did with idophor I don't think I wetted the sides down immediately before transferring like I did this time.

The wort tastes like crap now.

will it go away or should I just start over fresh? Sucks was a twelve gallon batch and took me 7 damn hours too because I found out my mash tun isn't big enough to hold all the grain. Was probably the single worst brew session I've had to date, everything went wrong lol.

I dunno, lots of brewers use iodophor with success, and it seems like you generally have to get pretty far outside the normal concentration to get off-flavors (from what I can read, never had a problem myself that I can tell), which it sounds like you're right around normal concentration.


I've always gone off the "capful for 5gal" rule w/bottles of BTF and eyeballed other lesser amounts to where the solution is about the same "just starting to get some color" look.


( http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=76024 )

blizz81 said:

I dunno, lots of brewers use iodophor with success, and it seems like you generally have to get pretty far outside the normal concentration to get off-flavors (from what I can read, never had a problem myself that I can tell), which it sounds like you're right around normal concentration.


I've always gone off the "capful for 5gal" rule w/bottles of BTF and eyeballed other lesser amounts to where the solution is about the same "just starting to get some color" look.


( http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=76024 )

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That link says proper concentration is .6 tsp per gallon, The more I think about it I was at around that I used just under 2 tsp in 2.5-3 gallons of water.

I think the problem is I took a rag and soaked the sides of the fermenter RIGHT before transferring the wort so there was a fair amount of the solution mixed into the wort.

Has anyone done anything like this? Will it ferment out? Cuz it tastes like butt now! Lol

I tell you what, more I think of it I might just dump it, it really, really tasted bad I can't see it going away and I'm not sure I wanna sit around for three weeks of primary to find out when I need to get some beer bubbling. Really sucks, 25lbs of grain and a huge starter plus 7 oz of hops down the drain I guess?

Are you sure it's Iodophor you're tasting? Not residual oils and crap from manufacturing your new SS fermentors? Do you have chlorine in your brewing water perhaps that wasn't treated for? Given the size of your batch, there is not much Iodophor that clings to the sides, relatively.

Why do they vow against Starsan? The foaming perhaps? That would be really a non-issue.

I'm pretty sure it's the iodophor, yes. At least when I taste the leftover iodophor from the bucket and taste the wort it tastes the same lol.

This IS the first batch I've done in this fermenter but I washed it well with grease cutting dish soap, several times, and rinsed profusely then passivated with bar keepers friend and rinsed profusely again, then it has sat in open air for a week to complete passivation until last night.

Brew water was tap water ran through an RV carbon filter. I was having issues with my water but running it through a filter has gotten the metals out of it and all has been well. That and The wort tasted fine until it went into the fermenter, once there .... Instant crapola taste. Knee jerkingly bad even

They say they recommend "non slippery sanitizers" no clue.

I just used star San on my other identical fermenter and it was fine so I'll be going with star San from here on out. From the research I'm doing it doesn't sound to promising for this batch but I'm all ears if anyone has any suggestions. I suppose I could give it 5 days of fermentation which would be mostly completed and taste a sample and decide then but doesn't seem like I should hold my breath for a miracle.

Only thing I am wondering is if it will ferment out or otherwise fade with time just due to the nature of it? It is iodine after all maybe it will break down or be consumed by the yeast?

I mentioned chlorine as it tastes and smells very similar to Iodine.

Carbon filters are not very efficient in removing chlorine. It has to trickle to do any good, and there's a limit how much can be trapped. In case you use a hose to supply your water, even an "RV hose," there can be some taste from that too.

To treat for chlorine and chloramines, one crushed Campden tablet per 20 gallons is better than any carbon filter and way faster.

The non-slippery sanitizer requirement makes no sense to me either. You should ask Stout for a legit explanation. If it just has to do with foaming, perhaps use low foaming SaniClean instead. If it's acid related, hmm...

I doubt halogens ferment out, they tend to complex with phenols and other components in the beer, not making for a better flavor, sadly.

Give it a few days and check again. Not much to lose at this point.

If your batch is already going I wouldn't dump it, just wait and see what happened. I would doubt that that minimal concentration of iodine would impart significant off flavors IMHO. Seems like something else is the culprit but I am not sure what it could be.

I have never used anything but Iodophor and I always create a 25 ppm solution. The solution will sit in my carboy from mid-mash through until it is time to move the wort into the carboy at which point I aggressively swirl the sanitizer around the carboy and then dump. I have never experienced any off flavors, even when I made Munich Helles.

Taste your beer after a week when you take a gravity reading.

Hmmm .... Ok then that makes me wonder if this may be related to the other issues I was having water wise. I just got the RV filter, I do have an RO filter and calcium chloride as well as gypsum so I could go that route too.

The only thing that doesn't fit is.... Why did the wort taste totally fine during transfer to the fermenter, but once there tasted like the iodophor ? That doesn't make sense to me.

When you guys use iodophor and are sloshing it around the carboy as mentioned above and draining it, is there a fare amount of it on the idea of the carboy that gets mixed with the wort? That was definitely the case here, right before I transferred I took a rag and doused down the sides of the conical, then I drained the conical so it was probably 5 minutes before I started transfring which would have given it some time to run down the sides and collect. Still though, I'm guessing there was a good cup or even two of the iodophor that might have made it into the wort on transfer.

I will say this though, the taste is so strong it is almost as strong tasting as the straight iodophor so maybe it is something else.

OZZ said:

When you guys use iodophor and are sloshing it around the carboy as mentioned above and draining it, is there a fare amount of it on the idea of the carboy that gets mixed with the wort? That was definitely the case here, right before I transferred I took a rag and doused down the sides of the conical, then I drained the conical so it was probably 5 minutes before I started transfring which would have given it some time to run down the sides and collect. Still though, I'm guessing there was a good cup or even two of the iodophor that might have made it into the wort on transfer.

I will say this though, the taste is so strong it is almost as strong tasting as the straight iodophor so maybe it is something else.

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There's threads out there about accidental transferring of iodophor into a beer....one example: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=390907


It's a no-rinse the same as StarSan, so really, if you're using it correctly, the surfaces of your vessel(s) should be wetted. Similar to sloshing the rag and letting it sit for 5 minutes. So I'm not sure what's going on here.

I did use a garden hose to connect the carbon filter, thinking that the filter would take care of any issues from doing it that way. I'm guessing that's a false assumption too.

IMHO I would use tubing or a food grade garden hose (also know as an RV waterline hose)

Just got to thinking, another consideration may be that when I say the "sample" tasted bad I'm referring to a sample taken with my refractometers pipettes off the very top. I wonder if the densities are different or something and if while I filled the wort in the iodophor collected on the surface as the wort level rose.

Either way I'll give it a week and take a sample. Thanks for the help and those links as well! Good reading!

Was the rag you used to wipe down the sides with Iodophor clean? Maybe that's where your bad flavor is coming from

It was clean, as in it was washed and dried... Basic laundering.

Perhaps, you are actually tasting the yeast. I do not think I would be a fan of the flavor of the wort after pitching once the yeast starts feeding and growing like crazy.

OZZ said:

Just got to thinking, another consideration may be that when I say the "sample" tasted bad I'm referring to a sample taken with my refractometers pipettes off the very top. I wonder if the densities are different or something and if while I filled the wort in the iodophor collected on the surface as the wort level rose.

Either way I'll give it a week and take a sample. Thanks for the help and those links as well! Good reading!

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Have you tried another sample since? Is it possible that you used Idophor to sanitize the pipette and that there was enough left in the pipette to taint that sample you tasted?

I used Idophor for close to 50 batches and never noticed any off flavors from it.

I would suspect the garden hose adding some definite off flavors. I have to haul water for our house and I made the mistake of using a garden hose to fill our tank once and it made the water undrinkable.

I could be wrong.. But I really don't see it being just the iodophore.. I've used star san and iodophore, and I use it pretty liberally for my sanitization. Never had it affect taste in the beer... Hope whatever the taste is mellows out for you.

TechyDork said:

Have you tried another sample since? Is it possible that you used Idophor to sanitize the pipette and that there was enough left in the pipette to taint that sample you tasted?

I used Idophor for close to 50 batches and never noticed any off flavors from it.

I would suspect the garden hose adding some definite off flavors. I have to haul water for our house and I made the mistake of using a garden hose to fill our tank once and it made the water undrinkable.

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Well if it tastes like ass, there must be at least SOME taint...

I tend to agree that garden hose could be a contributor to off-flavor, something plastic-y / rubber-y; to the OP, could you be more descriptive about the flavor?

The sample I tried was taken before pitching yeast.

I didn't sanitize the pipette with iodophor but just took a small squirt off the very top of the wort.

I've only used the garden hose on the last two batches which are both fermenting but maybe that could be it (other than the fact it tastes like the iodophor). I was having issues with metals in my water so grabbed this RV filter and used the garden hose to feed it.

At this point I think I'm gonna just go RO along these guidelines (pulled from this site) and be done with it.... If it is in fact my water.

Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:


For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3% (you can make great Hefe with soft water too).

Porter: For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.

Light Ale: For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum

IPA: For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and gypsum (2tsp of each)

If you follow just the baseline without any of the deviations you won't make a 'dumper'. That's the whole idea behind the primer. Should get you a decent beer whatever the style.

agrazela said:

Well if it tastes like ass, there must be at least SOME taint...

I tend to agree that garden hose could be a contributor to off-flavor, something plastic-y / rubber-y; to the OP, could you be more descriptive about the flavor?

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Lol .... Sure! Mix up some iodophor at recommended concentrations and have a taste.... Tastes just like that lol

Nice zinger btw! Taint a problem

Btw .... You guys all rock, this site is badass. Really appreciate all the help on this issue and others I've had in the past.

One other thing to consider with regard to the similarity in taste between the Idophor solution and the wort is whether the Idophor solution was made with water taken from the same source (hose / hose & filter) that supplied the water for the wort. I say this because I've never had an off-flavor issue with Idophor and I doubt that even putting a full cup of 25ppm solution in 14.5 gallons of plain water would result in the water tasting foul. So that much in 14.5 gallons of flavorful wort should be even harder to detect.

It was about 12 gallons of wort, but I do understand what your saying and I tend to agree with you all.

Put it this way, the taste is so strong that it tastes very close in intensity to the straight iodophor. That can be possible even if the sides of the fermenter were covered in iodophor, the taste would be diluted not hold the same intensity. At least that's what all your responses are getting me thinking.

I will give this a week and sample, also, I have an IPA going into its second week in primary that I used the garden hose and filter on. I'll pull a sample of that tonight as I did NOT taste it before going into the fermenter (but I did taste the water and it tasted good). From here on out I'm just going to go RO but I will report back on this issue.

Could the bar keepers friend be causing this? I rinsed the holy hell out of it afterwords so I don't know how it could but this is my first batch in this fermenter.

BlueHouseBrew said:

One other thing to consider with regard to the similarity in taste between the Idophor solution and the wort is whether the Idophor solution was made with water taken from the same source (hose / hose & filter) that supplied the water for the wort. I say this because I've never had an off-flavor issue with Idophor and I doubt that even putting a full cup of 25ppm solution in 14.5 gallons of plain water would result in the water tasting foul. So that much in 14.5 gallons of flavorful wort should be even harder to detect.

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Come to think of it, I used straight tap water for the iodophor solution and used the hose and filter for the mash and sparge

Although it depends on your hose, RV being the most neutral, PVC among the most obnoxious, any standing water in a hose will take on the character of its host and then some. When filling a bucket for the garden I can smell it clearly. Farmers always say, "don't drink from a hose" for good reasons.

If you have access to clean water that is brew worthy, use it for all it's worth, but from a clean tap, not your common garden hose that's been laying in the sun cooking. Since you have RO, that maybe your best bet yet. Then add your brewing salts and acid to the style and flavor profile you desire.

Now the Barkeeper's Friend you used to passivate your fermentor with can leave some residue, more of a metallic/acidic tasting nature, though. A rinse with water may not be enough, needing a good scrub with a detergent such as PBW or at least Washing Soda or Oxiclean to remove that clinging film, followed by a good water rinse and sanitizer.

At least you know something went wrong, and finding where that bad turn was made is good strategy to prevent it from happening again.

You can always d*st*ll it.

Thanks for the input!

Would a pbw soak on a stainless steel conical strip the passivatation layer that gets created by using BKF or other acids?

Why do some people prefer idophor to star San?
Seems to be slightly more annoying to work with. Is it cheaper?

NewJersey said:

Why do some people prefer idophor to star San?
Seems to be slightly more annoying to work with. Is it cheaper?

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Been using it as my only sanitizer for 11 years and never had a single issue. I remember many years back reading an article someone wrote about taste threshold with differing levels of iodophor in beer. The titrated differing amounts into a beer to determine where you'd get any off flavor. The taste threshold was so high that you'd have to really use a lot higher concentration than you'd ever need to be able to taste it in a finished beer, and even then I think it came out slight. Further, iodophor will not damage stainless steel as star san can. I always asked myself why everyone seemed to flock to starsan, I never really got it, and why they didn't use iodophor. But that's why we have choices.

Well.... The damage on stainless steel is a good point. The batch is bubbling away nicely at the moment so I'll be taking a sample once fermentation slows down, I'm guessing in another few days. I'll update this accordingly

OZZ said:

Well.... The damage on stainless steel is a good point. The batch is bubbling away nicely at the moment so I'll be taking a sample once fermentation slows down, I'm guessing in another few days. I'll update this accordingly

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I'm not saying it will damage your stainless and with as popular as it is I assume it's not much of an issue unless you leave it sitting in there for an extended time (though I find it troubling that some sites sell it noting that it will not damage stainless). It also won't discolor your pastic bits, if that's an issue visually for you, as iodine based sanitizers can with extended time. They both have their place, and their fans. I think contact time is shorter with star san as well. I just started with iodophor and never had an issue so why switch.
Cheers!

I was keeping star San in my kegs for months, and wonder if that could be a problem? I've heard of many people doing that with no issues though so I'm not sure.

I don't think you have to worry about it in stainless

Good luck man, I quit using Idophor for this same reason.
I got just a little bit of solution in my beer due to carelessness and it ruined the entire batch.
What I did is crash cool my brew and the blowoff tube sucked in some of the Idophor solution, lesson learned since every sip tasted like iodophor.

StarSan is tasteless and IMO is superior to Idophor. Contact time is short and I reuse my starsan solution over and over again, 6 months or longer when made with RO water. I always have a keg full at all times, no issues whatsoever. It doesn't weaken much over time and is super easy to check it's effectiveness with a PH meter since it is just a acid wash (PH 2.0 is all that is needed). Because it is reusable like this, it makes it the cheapest option overall for a home brewer. It however is not very safe for aluminium, the acid can/will remove the protective oxidation layer.

Idophor has a strong taste that doesn't go away; I was very anal about draining out every drop when I was using this stuff. Solutions don't hold very long, a few days at most when sealed in a opaque container and will stain equipment if kept a while. It also is a weak oxidizer so if you already have surface rust it will make it worst. I don't believe either will pit SS or initiate the damage. Many breweries use an iodine wash instead of an acid wash because it is much cheaper when used as a rinse. StarSan will hurt your wallet if you dump it every brew; Idophor won't.

mredge73 said:

Idophor has a strong taste that doesn't go away; I was very anal about draining out every drop when I was using this stuff...

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Like I previously stated I've used it for a very long time and never had this issue, and even mentioned a taste threshold test that I read indicating that this is not an issue at the recommended strengths.

edit: I found the taste threshold test I read way back
http://www.franklinbrew.org/wp/?page_id=384

Summary

Both testers easily detected iodophor in distilled water when the level of iodophor was 4 times “normal”.

Neither tester could find the iodophor in distilled water at twice the “normal level”.

Neither tester could detect iodophor contamination in SNPA at 8 times the “normal level”.

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I think you guys might be mixing it too strong or having interactions with chlorine?

More info (2008 probrewer): http://discussions.probrewer.com/archive/index.php/t-10400.html

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/234-bleach-and-iodine-mr-wizard

Ding ding ding!

I thank that right there is the cause of all my problems I've been having really weird metallic flavors that I started a thread on here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=541228

I have been trying to eliminate the problem but it seems it's all over the place. Beers taste fine when under carbed at 8psi. When I go to 12 I get a weird metallic iron like taste that can get undrinkable.

Now this with the iodophor.... I'm on a community well and didn't have these problems previously but I'm seriously suspecting they did something different with the water recently that is causing my problems. Monday I'll be brewing a batch with all amended RO water. Hopefully this will eliminate the problems. As seen in the other thread I've been through a bunch of troubleshooting but this situation with the iodophor is different, this was immediately upon transferring the wort.

Previously all batches tasted fine until carbed. Then I used the iodophor again and had a different taste. A strong iodophor taste.

I really wonder if I'm having interactions with crap that's in my water. This next batch should tell me if that's the case.

All that said... I'm still gonna stick with star San from here on out and it will be probably Monday that I try this batch to see if the iodophor taste is still there.