Lagering, 1-2 months... ok, is it 1 or 2? or 6 weeks?

To make a Lager, everything I read says to lager 1-2 months, so how do you know when you have lagered long enough?
I have no issues waiting 2 months or even 3 if it is going to be better, however, I have a carboy full of German Pilsner taking up the space of 2 kegs in my fridge, so the sooner I can pull it out the better.

Also, on a side note, I have a lager brewing at cool temps with Saflager (Cooper's) yeast, however, as things are warming up, I have nowhere cold to lager it, any suggestions? lager at cool to room temp or keg/bottle it and lager it in my keggerator in kegs/bottles?

The brew in question is actually Cooper's Euro Lager kit, so I think I am pretty safe just to bottle it and store it as that is what their instructions say, however, I am wondering what can make it better.

I've never used that yeast so I can't give specific advice. However, I've made plenty of lagers.

I follow a general guideline of roughly 1 week of lagering for every 8-10 points of OG. So, for an 1.060 beer, I'd lager 6-8 weeks. Longer tends to make the beer smoother and give it a crisper finish.

If you're kegging, you can lager in the keg.

+1 on Yooper's spot on advice

YooperBrew said:

If you're kegging, you can lager in the keg.

Click to expand...

The Saflager is in my cooper's kit which is still fermenting, but the other one I was referring to is a Wyeast Czech Pils.

My only concern with lagering in my keg, is that I am brewing 5 IMP Gallons here in Canada but my kegs are 5 US gallons, leaving me with about 12 bottles to fill when I am done with the keg. So I wonder if I can bottle with priming sugar and then lager after it is carbonated.

Yooper....

When you say "lager in the keg", should the primary be in a bucket, then D rest, then rack to keg, and move to cold chamber?
I've always wondered this because it seems yeast still needs to be in the corny to do some cleaning/lagering.

sorry if I'm misdirecting the original post

karbinator said:

Yooper....



sorry if I'm misdirecting the original post

Click to expand...

Ask whatever you like, I am pretty new to this myself and am like a sponge absorbing all info I can.

1 week for 8 gravity points (or 2 degrees plato) is as good a rule of thumb as any. I think Gordon Biersch does 6 weeks for everything, probably easier to schedule that way.

The other way to look at it is that you really can start drinking it whenever you want, you don't need to plan how long you will lager for like a commercial brewery, so just start drinking it when it tastes good. If you start drinking after 6 weeks and you notice that it is remarkably better at 10 weeks, next time start drinking at 10.

The temperature matters as much as or more than the time, so definitely keg it and get it cold. The amount of time you would want to lager at 30 F is quite a bit shorter than how long you would want to lager at 40F. That's why GB can turn a dopplebock around in 6 weeks and maybe the homebrewer who needs to lager in their serving fridge 10 degrees warmer would prefer it after 12 weeks.

For completeness, filtration is another factor. Much of what lagering aims to accomplish is the precipitation of protein-polyphenol complexes (and this is the part that goes much faster colder). Filtration can do this too, so a filtered beer needs much less lagering time (this is why some commercial lager brewers can lager as short as 3 weeks).

remilard said:

1 week for 8 gravity points (or 2 degrees plato) is as good a rule of thumb as any. I think Gordon Biersch does 6 weeks for everything, probably easier to schedule that way.

The other way to look at it is that you really can start drinking it whenever you want, you don't need to plan how long you will lager for like a commercial brewery, so just start drinking it when it tastes good. If you start drinking after 6 weeks and you notice that it is remarkably better at 10 weeks, next time start drinking at 10.

The temperature matters as much as or more than the time, so definitely keg it and get it cold. The amount of time you would want to lager at 30 F is quite a bit shorter than how long you would want to lager at 40F. That's why GB can turn a dopplebock around in 6 weeks and maybe the homebrewer who needs to lager in their serving fridge 10 degrees warmer would prefer it after 12 weeks.

For completeness, filtration is another factor. Much of what lagering aims to accomplish is the precipitation of protein-polyphenol complexes (and this is the part that goes much faster colder). Filtration can do this too, so a filtered beer needs much less lagering time (this is why some commercial lager brewers can lager as short as 3 weeks).

Click to expand...

Remilard gives the best advice, so I'll defer to his expertise. Great info here.

The only thing I can add is to answer a question asked about the actual "way to do it". I put that in quotations, because I'm sure there is more than one way- but it's common to let the beer get to about 75% finished, or a couple of points away from FG in the primary. At that time, if you're doing a diacetyl rest, you can raise the temperature of the primary approximately 10 degrees. You want to do the diacetyl rest before racking and before FG is reached, as it is the active yeast that clean up diacetyl. The reason for raising the temperature slightly is to encourage them to work a bit longer and clean up the diacetyl.

After that, I like to rack to a carboy to get the beer off of the yeast cake, and to reduce headspace. Then, I lower the temperature 5 degrees or so per day, until I'm lagering at 34 degrees. I like the cooler temperature for lagering, although as Remilard said you can lager warmer. I think the cooler temperature for longer gives a smoother and crisper flavor. Of course, you can lager in the keg instead of a carboy- it's really the same thing. The idea is to get the beer off of the yeast cake and reduce headspace. A bucket has a wide area, so headspace would be a concern for long-term aging or storing.

If I am still limited in fridge space, can I keg it now, leave it at room temp for a month until I have room in my fridge and then lager it? We can call it an extra long diacetyl rest...

Or as I asked earlier, and no one touched on (probably none of teh responders have tried it) can I lager after bottling? which is more or less what the cooper's kit suggests.

And what about laggering an ale? we age ales at room temp sometimes, what about aging a lager temps?

I have made that kit many times. I usually bottle condition it in my basement. I haven't noticed any big differences when I drink the 1st couple bottles (haha, usually once primed), or the last couple many weeks later.

billc68 said:

The brew in question is actually Cooper's Euro Lager kit, so I think I am pretty safe just to bottle it and store it as that is what their instructions say, however, I am wondering what can make it better.

Click to expand...

The big thing with lagers is primary related.

Proper steady fermenting temperatures for the lager yeast selected and not removing the beer from the yeast until you have fermented your beer and made sure there is no diacetyl. Not all brews will produce enough diacetyl to taste, so tasting your brew after it is finished and before you remove it from the primary yeast is important. This will give you a chance to correct any percieved diacetyl. Zamil Zainasheff keeps his lagers on the primary yeast for 6 to 8 weeks sometimes before kegging. With the amount of awards he has won, his methods will be good enough for me.

I lager in kegs to have more room, but it will all come down to patience. Will I be able to keep myself from drinking my lagers before their time.

If the saflager you are using is S-23, then perhaps a slightly higher temp than 50f ( 10c ) would be advisable for this yeast to prevent some fruity flavours myself and others ( noteably Denny Conn ) have found using this yeast at 50f.

boo boo said:

If the saflager you are using is S-23, then perhaps a slightly higher temp than 50f ( 10c ) would be advisable for this yeast to prevent some fruity flavours myself and others ( noteably Denny Conn ) have found using this yeast at 50f.

Click to expand...

Higher than 50F to avoid fruity flavors? Could you please explain? I'm interested in this yeast, but higher temps to avoid fruitiness sounds counter-intuitive.

I am curious where the OP heard that the yeast in Cooper's "premium" lager kits is Saflager. As I mentioned in a previous thread, my understanding is that it's actually Mauribrew lager 497. This would make sense as Maurivin is an Australian company. Maurivin seems to be something of a dark horse in homebrewing. Mauribrew 497 was previously available as Superior Lager yeast here in the Americas.

Anyway, to the OP: yes, you can lager after bottling. You also asked about storage temps (ales in particular). I think somewhere around 50 degrees is best, but it really is about what's available and making it work for you.

I heard about Cooper's Lager yeast in post on Facebook, it may very likely be the Mauribrew sounds like the two have similar characteristics.