Check your RIMS element!

I didn't and now I've got a batch of pale ale that has a distinct smokey flavor. I thought maybe it was carry over from a batch of rauchbier, and since all the other beers I've done recently have been fairly dark I didn't notice it in them. Today, on a whim, I decided to check the element in my RIMS and I found this:





I haven't fry fired it since the last time it was disassembled, and I clean it by recirculating hot oxyclean for 15-20 mins after every brewday. Apparently the oxyclean wasn't good enough to truly clean the element. The stuff that's caked on there isn't burnt on like when you spill on an electric stove, it's more like a super thick layer of the seasoning on a cast iron pan. It flaked right off the element, and I checked the tube and there isn't a spot on the inside. I think that proteins are probably adhering to the porous heating element, and then slowly cooking into that thick black cake on the element.

Since I'm brewing tonight, I installed my spare element in the RIMS. I will be cleaning the old one with steel wool and keeping it as my spare.

After seeing this I'm going to get one of the tri-clover RIMS tubes from brewer's hardware. While my current setup is running great, cracking the box and undoing the electric connections after every brewday isn't something I'm going to do.

Mine looks like that if I don't Oxyclean it after brewing. After a long Oxy recirculation I'm usually left with just a fine white coating which I can wipe off. I have a Tri Clover element so I take it out after each brew day for inspection.

Not sure if it is a good idea to take steel wool to the element, I'd think it would shorten the life - but I have no real evidence of that.

Wow, that is nasty!
I wonder if PBW will touch that gunk when OxiClean won't.

This will definitely make me mount the RIMS heater in a way so I can easily disassemble it. If I didn't already have my brand new 1.5" ss plumbing I'd consider a tri clamp now. I think as long as the hex part of the heater is exposed I will not have to undo the wires at the heater, just unplug the cable from the control panel.

Thanks for sharing.

I just experienced the same thing and posted here.

As you can see in my thread, we will probably need to take it out and clean it with a green scrubby and some PBW, OXI or BKF after each and every use. Bummer.

That gets me to thinking. I would assume they have to clean that Braumeister the same way. Also, what about the element's that are in the boil kettles? I would think after a good hour long boil there would be a need to clean those off as well.

Yambor, I brewed 16.5 gal yesterday (two batches) with the new element. I pulled it out after a 45 min recirculation in 160 F PBW and found exactly what you had in the later post. It's the beginning of that "crud" layer forming. It came off with a light touch using a green scrubby. I think that the answer is to just pull the element and hit it with a scrubby after each brew before that gunk has a chance to get cooked on.

I haven't seen this on my kettle's element. On the other hand, I scrub the whole kettle, element included, with a green scrubby right after each batch and before the PBW or oxyclean goes in there. It makes the cleaner work a lot faster if you break up any gunk first. I'm thinking that the kettle would probably look similar if I didn't scrub it.

I have seen this in my rims but the Bk is bright and shiny. Something is going on inside that tube that really accentuates this affect.

Here's what I'm thinking: that crud is made of starches. The proteins, cellulose, and lipids are all going to be present in the boil kettle too, and really the only thing I can think of that is present in the wort passing through the RIMS but not in the boil is going to be starches. They must be sticking to the element then carmelizing onto it. It certainly isn't wort scorching, I have a 5500 W ULD element and it was on 120V the entire time it had wort on it yesterday, whereas the kettle has the same element and it was on 220V full power all the way until the hot break subsided. I think that the best solution is to just clean the thing. Problem is that requires disassembly, and if you've got a pipe-bomb RIMS like me it's a pain in the keister.

I'm with your Trigger. I think the grain matter that filters through (especially the start of the recirculation, say the first 10 minutes or so) is getting stuck to the element.

Has anyone noticed the same build up with the stainless elements?

Brew on

I get some small amount of gunk on my BK element after a few brew sessions, but some warm water and a green scrubby makes short work of that. I also soak in hot PBW after every brew session, which reduces the need to hand scrub down to every 3 or 4 batches. Sometimes I can just spray the element with high pressure water and the stuff comes right off too.

TB

Yambor44 said:

I'm with your Trigger. I think the grain matter that filters through (especially the start of the recirculation, say the first 10 minutes or so) is getting stuck to the element.

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When I first start the recirculate I'll do so without the heating element on. The thought here is that I'll filter some of the proteins out of the wort.

I checked my element after 3 brews and there was some buildup, but not too bad. A green scrubber cleaned it up really well.

stlbeer said:

When I first start the recirculate I'll do so without the heating element on. The thought here is that I'll filter some of the proteins out of the wort.

I checked my element after 3 brews and there was some buildup, but not too bad. A green scrubber cleaned it up really well.

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I do the same to filter and to purge all the air from the tube.

So today I did a batch of roggenbier. This is a recipe that I've brewed a few times before, so nothing new there. I used the same triple decoction mash that I've used in the past. After the boil I pulled the elements from both the kettle and RIMS. Here's what I found


The one on top is from the kettle and below is from the RIMS. This is after 20 mins of PBW recirculating. They're both covered in slime, and the stuff on the kettle element had started to burn onto the element.

For reference, they're both 5500 W ULD camco's. Once I heated the strike water on 220 V in the MT/LT I turned the RIMS off for the first 20 mins of the protein rest but was still recirculating (I overshot by 3 deg, so let it cool until I pulled the first decoct). After that I turned it onto 110 V to maintain temps. I used decoctions to raise the temp for every step, so it stayed on 110 V and only had to maintain.

I boiled for 90 mins as usual on 220V at 60% power. I've done this many times and nothing was different than before. At about the 85 min mark I noticed a faint smokey smell, so I instantly killed power to the element and started the cooling recirculation.

Both elements have thick coats of protein on them (yep, I tasted it, it's protein). That tri clover RIMS can't get here fast enough. I'm seriously sick of dismantling this thing to clean it. It seems to be worst with rye beers (real rye beers, like >40%), but those are my favorite.

On a side note, steel wool gets the crap off fast, and doesn't seem to have any effect on the element's performance.

So you guys with RIMS tubes have water and/or moisture present in the RIMS tubes even after a brew day? I use a HERMS system with my heating element in my HLT and I've noticed that if I leave water in there overnight it causes the heating element base to rust really easily. Ever since I discovered that I make sure to drain out my HLT immediately after brewing and I keep it dry at all times when not in use. I would think this would be difficult to do with a RIMS set up and may be contributing to the photos above?

hatfieldenator said:

So you guys with RIMS tubes have water and/or moisture present in the RIMS tubes even after a brew day? I use a HERMS system with my heating element in my HLT and I've noticed that if I leave water in there overnight it causes the heating element base to rust really easily. Ever since I discovered that I make sure to drain out my HLT immediately after brewing and I keep it dry at all times when not in use. I would think this would be difficult to do with a RIMS set up and may be contributing to the photos above?

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After finding the problem on mine the first time I began taking the RIMS tube apart and cleaning and drying everything off. Then I left the element sit outside the tube to air dry further.

Whats contributing to the photo is the grain matter (proteins) that sneak thru the mash during recirculation. Unless you recirculate for more than 10 minutes or so before turning on the element, you are going to have some of this build up.

I got the same buildup on a stainless element also.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

So the beer's been fermenting vigorously for 1.5 days now and there's no burnt/scorched/smokey smell coming from the blowoff tube. I'm really nervous about the taste, though.

Since I usually do protein rests of 20 mins on rye beers I don't believe that that is helping at all with the buildup. I also have been recirculating for at least the first 10 mins with no heating for the past 5 or 6 batches and I'm still getting the gunk. Because it's adhering to the element and not the rough inner surface of the stainless there appears to be some chemistry going on. I'll get back to you after some library time.

trigger said:

So the beer's been fermenting vigorously for 1.5 days now and there's no burnt/scorched/smokey smell coming from the blowoff tube. I'm really nervous about the taste, though.

Since I usually do protein rests of 20 mins on rye beers I don't believe that that is helping at all with the buildup. I also have been recirculating for at least the first 10 mins with no heating for the past 5 or 6 batches and I'm still getting the gunk. Because it's adhering to the element and not the rough inner surface of the stainless there appears to be some chemistry going on. I'll get back to you after some library time.

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I cleaned my element once, and it was just like that. I've brewed MANY batches on it without cleaning once, and never noticed off flavors or anything. I wouldn't worry too much about it affecting your beers. Maybe the performance of the element, but not the overall flavor of the beer.

OTOH, I will be upgrading to a triclover RIMS tube as soon as I decided to drop more money on my rig. Then it will be a non-issue as it'll get cleaned separately after each brew while I'm boiling.

ikonis said:

I cleaned my element once, and it was just like that. I've brewed MANY batches on it without cleaning once, and never noticed off flavors or anything. I wouldn't worry too much about it affecting your beers. Maybe the performance of the element, but not the overall flavor of the beer.

OTOH, I will be upgrading to a triclover RIMS tube as soon as I decided to drop more money on my rig. Then it will be a non-issue as it'll get cleaned separately after each brew while I'm boiling.

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I hear what you're saying, 3 of the 7 beers I entered into the NHC this year had "smokey/astringent" comments, and on one of them both judges noted scorched wort. I looked back through the brew log and they were all brewed before I cleaned the RIMS element for the first time. They were also all ligher styles, 80/-, AmPils, and an APA. None of these beers had any roast grains. The buildup has to be the cause of this. I think I had some "ugly baby syndrome" with them, but since seeing those scorecards I've become super sensitive to it, and can taste it in each of them, exactly as described.

What really bothers me is all the evidence of wort NOT scorching, especially coderage's test, and yet here I am with a case of wort scorching not only on the RIMS, but in the kettle as well. I know that a lot of brewers use these exact elements without a problem.

So far I have come up with two possible causes. Either the negative charged residues are adhering to surface metals in the element or the proteins are becoming denatured in the pocket of heated wort enveloping the element and adhering to the porous surface. I am inclined to start with the former, as local heating is an issue that every electric brewer would face, and obviously not everyone is having this problem.

I have very soft water here, and if the former is the cause then I believe that addition of sufficient mineral salts could aid in the prevention of the buildup. This also seems more likely as it is a much more significant problem in mashes with a higher [protein]. I may have to do some experimentation with this hypothesis, maybe build a mini mashtun for some one gallon all rye batches until I find the proper [ion]. Alternatively I could conduct an all rye mash without any heating of the RIMS and check for protein accumulation on the element. If it is present I could run a salt gradient through the RIMS, much like what we do in ion exchange chromatography, stopping at various intervals to see what [ion] is required to flush the protein from the element.

This all sounds like a lot of work. It would be much easier to setup in the lab, but I don't think that they'd be too happy about it. Maybe I'll just do the old guess and check method with my next few batches until I stumble upon the answer...

Holy crap, trig, you are one productive guy! I still have not brewed with my electric setup. What’s my excuse, TV and bourbon? Soon though.

I know what you mean by ugly baby syndrome. Last year the beer judges said I had a diacetyl problem in my Märzen, but I could not detect it at first. I had given it a good (I think) diacetyl rest at the end of fermentation, so it couldn't have diacetyl, but alas.

I am surprised that this has not been reported much earlier. After all, everyone that hears about a RIMS setup the first time wonders if it will scorch. Is it underreported because it is an “ugly baby“? Or is it chemistry like you suspect, and only a few get it? We have soft water here in the Seattle area as well so I will find out. I will use a 3000W/750W element in the tube.

We are lucky to have you on this problem; it seems you have the skills to tackle it. I wish I had my shytt together to do a test brew.