Is my yeast dead?

So after seeing Orfy's Pizza Porn thread, I decided to make some homemade pizza.

I made a simple dough recipe, flour, water, yeast, oil, sugar and I think that's it. Anyway, I put the yeast in first with some 100 degree water, it foamed up nicely and started doing that yeasty thing, and made the dough to directions. Dough never rose at all. Eventhough the packages says good till 2009, I don't think it was....any ideas?

98EXL said:

So after seeing Orfy's Pizza Porn thread, I decided to make some homemade pizza.

I made a simple dough recipe, flour, water, yeast, oil, sugar and I think that's it. Anyway, I put the yeast in first with some 100 degree water, it foamed up nicely and started doing that yeasty thing, and made the dough to directions. Dough never rose at all. Eventhough the packages says good till 2009, I don't think it was....any ideas?

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Use your hydrometer, not your airlo...oops sorry!

Was there salt in the recipe as well? Were they added close to the same time in the recipe. I have a bread maker and for some reason the instructions say that the salt and the yeast should not be added close to each other when you add ingredients. In fact the recipes usually have the salt going in early and then the yeast added on top of the flower. I'm not sure why but I've always assumed that a high concentration of salt may be harmful to yeast.

You proofed your yeast, so it was alive when you were adding ingredients....Hmmm.

I never proof my yeast in anything over the temperature I'll be rising at, you thermally shock the yeast. This may or may not be the case, I have successfully done so in the past before I understood them a little better. Salt in direct contact with the Yeast will probably kill it, and in sufficient quantities can retard the rising action but you do need a bit (did you accidentally overmeasure?). Very odd, but I have had a few things not rise on occasion as well.

Bread/dough making can be a little fickle. Like brewing you don't want to ferment warm either, it will lead to harsh alcoholic flavors that will not dissipate from the final product.

mmmmm beer flavoured dough....

I dunno what went wrong really...it's odd. I'm tempted to try again just to see what's up.

Revvy said:

Use your hydrometer, not your airlo...oops sorry!

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hahahahahaha....the Revvy response to everything!

seriously though - I've had problems with dough not rising 1) when using too much Kosher salt (Alton Brown recipe), 2) using 1/2 wheat 1/2 white flour, 3) having too chilly of a kitchen.

did you use salt? what kinda, and how much? what was your kitchen temp (or wherever you were trying to rise)? how long did you mix/knead?

AZ_IPA said:

hahahahahaha....the Revvy response to everything!

seriously though - I've had problems with dough not rising 1) when using too much Kosher salt (Alton Brown recipe), 2) using 1/2 wheat 1/2 white flour, 3) having too chilly of a kitchen.

did you use salt? what kinda, and how much? what was your kitchen temp (or wherever you were trying to rise)? how long did you mix/knead?

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Actually, my answer to everything is patience with a dose of RDWHAHB

Seriously, you and I both mentioned salt...does anyone know the dealy about salt and yeast?

*heads off to teh googlez*

I'm baaaaack!!!

I found this quote from google....but not too much else. It was under things that affect yeast performance.

The salt to yeast ratio (yes salt). Salt slows how fast the yeast will rise, so especially with a fixed time cycle on a bread machine, the salt measurement must be EXACT, EXACT, EXACT. (The salt isn't just in there for taste)

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So does that mean too much salt could halt rising?

I know I did actually measure everything correctly...hmmm and I did use Kosher Salt

98EXL said:

I know I did actually measure everything correctly...hmmm and I did use Kosher Salt

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Did the recipe call for kosher or regular iodized? That may be the problem.

Especially since you proofed the yeast, which kinda rules out prematurly dead little friends.

Time to make a new batch with regular table salt...Your pizzaporn itch still hasn't been scratched yet, has it?

Revvy said:

Did the recipe call for kosher or regular iodized? That may be the problem.

Especially since you proofed the yeast, which kinda rules out prematurly dead little friends.

Time to make a new batch with regular table salt...Your pizzaporn itch still hasn't been scratched yet, has it?

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it just said salt...I have another package of yeast...maybe I'll try it with table salt. And no, my pizza porn itch has not been scratched...beer came outta my nose on that one Thanks for the laugh

98EXL said:

it just said salt...

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here's what alton brown has to say on the subject:

"This recipe's been on the web for some time now and although most of the reactions have been darned positive, some of you have commented that the dough was way too salty. At first we chalked this up to personal preference; some folks are just not as sensitive as others to this basic flavor. And of course salty toppings would definitley change the dynamic. Still, we didn't want to leave it at that. We went back to the lab and found that the flake size of kosher salt differs quite a bit from brand to brand. This could easily result in a too salty crust. So unless you've had success with the recipe in the past, we suggest you cut the salt by one teaspoon, from a tablespoon to two teaspoons. So that the yeast doesn't go crazy, you should also cut back on the sugar by half a teaspoon. Thanks, AB"

Did you have anything else in the water with the yeast? I'd be curious as to why it foamed if it was just yeast and water.

I use kosher salt every time I make bread and I always proof my yeast with either a little sugar or a little flour in water that's roughly 100F. I've never had it not rise. In a batch of bread that uses 2-3 cups of flour I'll use about 1 teaspoon of salt.

Turkeyfoot Jr. said:

Did you have anything else in the water with the yeast? I'd be curious as to why it foamed if it was just yeast and water.

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"Rehydrated dry yeast can sometimes be very active in water, bubbling away even before it is given sugar to feed on.....optimum temperature during rehydration is 105 - 110 F."

Revvy said:

Seriously, you and I both mentioned salt...does anyone know the dealy about salt and yeast?

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"Small amounts of salt are incorporated into batters and doughs for the taste, but both yeast and gluten are also affected by its presence. Salt inhibits yeast activity and, if added to excess, will reduce volume and lightness of the loaf. By forming strong ionic bonds with side chains on the flour proteins, salt tends to make them less mobile and so the gluten less extensible, more tough. Again, the end result is a denser loaf. but by inhibiting the activity of protein-digesting enzymes in the flour, salt prevents the gluten from being weakened into a sticky mass that might retain very little carbon dioxide. "


All information was taken from Harold McGee On Food And Cooking

Ahh something I just thought of (after thinking of the 1/2 Wheat 1/2 White problem mentioned in this thread). If sufficient Gluten isn't developed in the dough, you will get a poor rise because the air cannot get properly distributed (trapped) in the strand matrix. How long did you knead for. Kneading dough long enough is crucial to aid in Yeast dough rising as well as creating a good texture and crust in the final product.

okay, are we at risk of losing our man cards with this thread?

AZ_IPA said:

okay, are we at risk of losing our man cards with this thread?

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I don't think so...but then again who knows

I kneaded for probably just under 10 mins....no rhyme or reason, just did

98EXL said:

I don't think so...but then again who knows

I kneaded for probably just under 10 mins....no rhyme or reason, just did

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Rule of thumb is around 17 minutes by hand. A stand mixer can reduce this a little but you have to watch that you don't pulverize the dough rather than getting the long strands of Gluten to develop. Two tests. One is that the dough should spring tightly back to the mass when pulled or if you press into the dough, no indent should remain. The dough should also take on a 'shiny' appearance, not from any oil but rather just the development of the Gluten, you'll know it when you see it. This is important for the majority of breads and things like Pizza dough.

had those characteristics....but the directions I read was knead for a few minutes...