Are all of John Palmer's step necessary?

It seems to me, reading through Palmer's "How To Brew" that most of the steps he writes in are unnecessary. I can understand boiling the water to sanitize it, but boiling the wort for so long and all these other boilings seem a bit unnecessary. Most brewing materials I have read seem to use a lot easier process than Palmer uses in his writings. Any suggestions/ideas?

Boiling the wort is so over-rated...

If there is a word of God in the beer brewing world, its John Palmer. I agree though, boiling wort is very over-rated.


You aren't really serious are you?

you boil the wort for specific ammounts of time to get the alpha acids in the hops to isomerize. (Spelling is messed on that one) the longer you boil the hops the isomerized alpha acids in the beer and the bitterer it tastes (depending on hop charachteristics, this is a huge thing here so lets not get into it). Of course you can always boil for less time and double or tripple the amount of hops you add, but at $4.00 an ounce it might get costly. The other alternative is to use pre hopped extracts, they usually only "need" to boil for like 10 minutes.

Are all of John Palmer's step necessary?

Depends on what you're trying to make. If you are going for hooch, then no, all his steps aren't necessary. If you want to make no boil kit, then no, all his steps aren't necessary. If you want to make good beer, that is another story all together. What is it you are trying to make?

If John Palmer told me to use pudding and fish sticks in my beer, I would do it.

BluegrassyBrewer said:

all these other boilings seem a bit unnecessary.

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What other "boilings"

Kai

Tapioca Oyster VanDekamps Stout!!!! :rockin:

Professor Frink said:

If John Palmer told me to use pudding and fish sticks in my beer, I would do it.

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Amen to that. (besides, he sort of does... though it's jell-o and fish guts in the finings section). I'm very new to home brewing and I've already read his book three times. Keep learning more and more as I do.

Bluegrassybrewer, I recommend reading the book again (all of it, cover to cover, carefully and in detail). A lot of stuff you glossed over before really becomes clear on the second go-through.

I wonder if we could just put all the hops in at once instead of adding them a bit at a time, too. I mean, once they're in there and mixed up with the wort what difference does it make? You don't add the pre-hopped extract a bit at a time and it's got all its hops in at once.

Dude, c'mon, you said in your intro that you dream of someday owning a small brewery.



Now get out there and do a triple-decoction homegrown-hops parti-gyle oak-aged sour ale! With all the fixins! And serve it on beergas! In a chalice made of cured spent grain!

Yeah its such as with most things in life: if you cut corners or half a$$ it your gonna get a half a$$ beer.

Do all of the steps for the first several and then try and modify the process. If it dose not turn out as well then you know why.

Coastarine said:

Dude, c'mon, you said in your intro that you dream of someday owning a small brewery.



Now get out there and do a triple-decoction homegrown-hops parti-gyle oak-aged sour ale! With all the fixins! And serve it on beergas! In a chalice made of cured spent grain!

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What, no firkin? No beer engine? No fermenting room with cobwebs older than me? What kind of brewer do you call yourself?

Yeup, you could miss out on the step of having a homebrew.
IBTL (yes this is a BIG call)

That's the beauty of homebrew, you can do whatever you like. If it comes out bad then you can try some of the crazy things Palmer suggests.

WoW, if this is flame bait, it caught me.

With basic brewing, the boiling for 60 minutes is for the hops. I am as new wave as anyone if it works, but there is a reason why brewing has changed little since pre-history. IT WORKS, and IT TASTE GREAT. Heck, somehow in a few thousand years it has entered our generic code so that the A word is described as a social or genetic disease.

If you just want high ABV, you can do it. If you want great beer, this is the place to learn how to do it.

Coastarine said:

Dude, c'mon, you said in your intro that you dream of someday owning a small brewery.
Now get out there and do a triple-decoction homegrown-hops parti-gyle oak-aged sour ale! With all the fixins! And serve it on beergas! In a chalice made of cured spent grain!

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Coastie - You are quickly becoming the MAN.

+1 to everyone who said John Palmer is the tits.

I did once boil a no-boil beer kit. It was supposed to be an IPA and it came out black like an imperial stout. It was dreadful. So if you have a no-boil kit, unsurprisingly, don't boil it. But otherwise, if you want good beer rather than hooch, do everything John Palmer says.

And if the object is to get some quick beer, why not just go to the store and pick up a six? If you don't enjoy the process, and it's just a means to beer, you could sure save yourself a lot of hassle....

It seems to me, reading through Palmer's "How To Brew" that most of the steps he writes in are unnecessary. I can understand boiling the water to sanitize it, but boiling the wort for so long and all these other boilings seem a bit unnecessary. Most brewing materials I have read seem to use a lot easier process than Palmer uses in his writings. Any suggestions/ideas?

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For purpose of discussion, what steps do you consider superfluous to the process?

Christ. A post count of 2, he posted in the Beginners Forum, and still the ********* replies. If you guys don't want to help noobs, why not just skip over the Beginners posts?

Professor Frink said:

If John Palmer told me to use pudding and fish sticks in my beer, I would do it.

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Another John Palmer worshiper- that is signature worthy, my friend!

(Even a bit hungover, I really enjoyed his live talk on residual alkalinity. He is da MAN!)

jkarp said:

Christ. A post count of 2, he posted in the Beginners Forum, and still the ********* replies. If you guys don't want to help noobs, why not just skip over the Beginners posts?

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We're allowed to reply however we want to. This forum constantly gets trolls/spammers/underage members. When someone asks if boiling is really necessary, its going to provoke some wise cracks. Lighten up...

There are reasons to boil the wort and it just isn't something that Palmer suggests. A while back, my timer cocked up and I had to quesstimate how long I had been boiling. In retrospect I believe I cut my boil short due to this but the beer was fine. I didn't try this the next time, I noted the time the boil started and didn't rely on the timer only.

That being said, while I'm sure Palmer makes good beer and there are obvoiusly those who brew according to him, there are just as many people making good beer without him. IMHO, one could learn enough about homebrewing on this board to make good beer. I use my copy of How to Brew to prop up the side of my carboy when racking from it.

BluegrassyBrewer said:

It seems to me, reading through Palmer's "How To Brew" that most of the steps he writes in are unnecessary. I can understand boiling the water to sanitize it, but boiling the wort for so long and all these other boilings seem a bit unnecessary. Most brewing materials I have read seem to use a lot easier process than Palmer uses in his writings. Any suggestions/ideas?

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Many people explained why the boiling is for 60 minutes. If you're brewing with extract and hops, there may be other ways to get the same results by boiling for shorter periods, but I would suggest trying it according to an established recipe first.

Where do you live? One thing that can really help make the brewing steps make sense is to do a brewery tour- particularly a small brewery, where you can see the steps right in front of you.

In mead and wine making, there really isn't any boiling involved, so it is different than other methods of fermentation. I started with wine, so it definitely seems like there are way more steps in beer! Still, all the steps make perfect sense once you're familiar with the process.

Welcome to HBT.

is the op talking about step mashes?

is the op talking about step mashes?

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You know, uglygoat, I think he might when he mentions 'all these other boilings'. I can't believe I overlooked that on a first reading.

BluegrassyBrewer- the other boilings (decoctions) that you mention are the exception rather than the rule when it comes to brewing, and 90% of the beers that I brew only employ a single infusion mash at a single mash temp.

There are two times when boiling is, in my opinion, NOT necessary:

1) Water for rehydrating dry yeast.

2) Water for topping off a concentrated-boil extract batch.

I do not boil my water for either of these things, and I never had a problem with off-flavors or contamination. YMMV.

Baldy_Beer_Brewery said:

That being said, while I'm sure Palmer makes good beer and there are obvoiusly those who brew according to him, there are just as many people making good beer without him. IMHO, one could learn enough about homebrewing on this board to make good beer.

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While I agree with that statement, I'd also like to mention, as a newbie myself, I've found a lot of conflicting information out there. It's is nice to have some known baseline starting ground that you trust. For me, that's Palmers book. Once I've got that information down, tried and tested, then I may deviate a little, but so far, I've got 4 out of 5 very acceptable brews following his instruction. So in my eyes, it's the shortest way from starting to success. In actuality, if I my previous 5 batches had tasted like donkey balls, my brewing gear would be on craigslist now.

So, admittedly, I didn't actually boil the Irish Red kit I brewed two weeks ago. I tried to, but the roasting oven I was experimenting with never got my 3 gallons past 187 F. So, eventually I just pulled out the steeped grains, threw the hops in, and let it go for a little over an hour.

I didn't add the extract until the end. As of my last sample tasting a few days ago it was pretty good, with probably more hop bitterness than I had anticipated.

We'll see what happens, but I think it will work out. Still, I'd much prefer actually seeing it boiling. And, I didn't save anytime this way, either.

jkarp said:

Christ. A post count of 2, he posted in the Beginners Forum, and still the ********* replies. If you guys don't want to help noobs, why not just skip over the Beginners posts?

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Because Palmer explains very clearly WHY you boil in his book. The OP is on the right track by looking for a quality source of information, but lost his way when he failed to read the parts that explain the purpose of the method. It doesn't make much sense to pick procedure alone out of a method and then question the reasoning behind the procedure. The answers are all there.

Anyway, I hope I didn't put you off with my smartass reply, Bluegrassy Brewer. Have a look at Palmer again and you'll see why we have to boil. Some steps are optional, depending on your technique and style, but some are mandatory.

BluegrassyBrewer,

The steps all depend on your process and what you're brewing. As you've seen in How To Brew, all-grain brewing is more complex than extract. For the simplest start into home brewing, consider pre-hopped extracts, a la Cooper's or Mr. Beer. Brewing them is as simple as boiling water, stirring in the extract, cooling and pitching in the yeast. Do note good brew is an exercise in patience however. Even if you get your beer in the fermenter fast, you've still got 1-2 weeks of fermentation, a couple weeks to carbonate after bottling, and 2-3 more weeks conditioning before it's ready.

Me thinks there is some confusion in the book itself... when I first read the book it appeared to me that he was repeating himself, but I wasn't confused because I already knew how to make beer. However, for a new brewer the layout of the book makes it appear as though the steps are being done repeatedly. At least, that is my opinion.

It has been hypothesized that beer was discovered when someone left some grain out in the rain. They found the effects of the beverage to be enjoyable.

This accident contains none of Palmer's steps.

It doesn't get any easier than that, but it sure tastes better the Palmer way.

I also noticed Palmer boils water to be used for rinse water when sanitizing with chlorine. This of course would not be necessary if using a no-rinse sanitizer (and he did explain that). Also he boils water that is to be added to the wort after partial boils. I have seen other sources that do not mention using boiled water for either of these two purposes. Based on my limited experience (see here), I would follow Palmer's advice.

Yeah, now that I re-read it, it makes more sense to me. I was still stuck in mead making mode hah.