List of PJ Electrical Diagrams

Hey PJ.

I was looking over the schematic and was wondering a few things. Would it be possible to use 2way switches with separate led indicators instead of the push button leds for the pumps. And is the on/off switch needed for the pid? Or could I add a keyed on/off for the entire control panel? One last thing, could I wire up an alarm on/off switch for the pid for when target temps are hit? Thanks!

P-J help!! LOL I am a novice electric brewer and am needing your assistance. Is there a way to get ahold of you? I have a wiring diagram I would like you to look over and give me your input on. Thanks for any help!!

Ok at the risk of being crucified on the internet I have attached my diagram. Does this look like it would work?

showdown496 said:

Ok at the risk of being crucified on the internet I have attached my diagram. Does this look like it would work?

Click to expand...

I'm by no means P-J, but I'll see what I can do for you...

1 - Why do you have your plug between the main breaker box and the 50 amp spa panel? Do you intend to have your spa panel be movable? It seems like it would make more sense to have the plug be after the spa panel, so that the spa panel is hard wired in, and you only unplug the control panel.

2 - Regardless of your solution above, why are you going 4 wires to the plug, then 3 wires to the spa panel, then 4 wires to the control panel? It seems entirely logical and resonable to run 4 wires the entire way, and then you don't have to worry about trying to derive neutral from ground within the spa panel - sure, you can do it, but what's the point in cutting out the neutral (I'm assuming yellow is neutral in your diagram - there's no legend) in that short run?

3 - Make sure to check your wire sizes. If you're running a 4500w heating element at 240v, it'll pull roughly 18.75amps. A 12 gauge wire is not going to cut it. Additionally, if you're running a 50amp breaker, you need 4gauge wiring in the setup to the spa panel and to your control panel. Your 6ga wiring is rated to around 37amps, which means if you DID have an issue, your wiring could potentially burn up before the breaker ever trips. This is not a good plan.

4 - I don't think the volt / amp meter is as simple as you show it, given how Kal had to run his. Do you have a simple device that just plugs straight in and gives you all those values and can handle 20 or so amps that your element may be drawing?

5 - With the e-Stop, you show a direct connection between the hot leg and ground. When people wire it up in this manner there are typically a few resistors in the line to prevent you from flowing full voltage to ground. With the resistors you get a trickle that will kill the GFCI. In your way, you'll get a large spark and could fry some wires or components. Unless you just haven't shown them, which brings me to...

6 - You need more detail of what's actually in the panel. This is good from the macro perspective. Now do one of just the panel with a little more clarity.

And lastly - take the time to read the primer on this page and as much other information as you can to get smart on some of this stuff. You're asking questions which is a great place to start, but if you were to wire it up as you have shown you could cause some issues that range from minor hazard to possible house-engulfing fire. Keep up the learning process, you're on the right path!

-Kevin

Thanks for the help. Let me try to explain/answer your questions. 1/2. The thought with 4 wires to the plug is that I read that code requires all new 240v hard wiring to be of 4 wire type. If it is an appliance that plugs in 3 wire is ok on the appliance. correct? The breaker box is about 50' from my intended brewing location and I have acquired 50' of 6/3 wire so I was trying to save the cost of buying 50' of 6 gauge wire. 3. On the 6 gauge wire, I also read on the electric brewing spreadsheet that 6 awg was rated for a max breaker size of 55 amps and 80% load was 44. Is that correct? You are definitley correct on the 4500 watt element needing bigger wire, I did miss that one! 4. On the volt/amp meter, i found this meter on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/321143529857?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 that does make it appear to be that simple. It could definitely be wrong as I never trust anything from ebay lol!! 6. I was not sure on the e-stop, that was added in at the last minute, do I even need one with a switch for each element and the gfci being close to the unit? Thanks again for taking a look at this. I am looking to invest a good deal of money here and would be very angry if it all burnt up the first time I tried to fire it up!!

I believe you should be fine with 6awg copper for the 50a circuit. Regarding running 6/3 rather than 6/3+ground, I would urge you not to "cheap out." You have the opportunity to have a true, isolated ground all the way back to the main breaker panel, rather than the having ground bonded to neutral in the spa panel. People generally use the 3 in, 4 out spa panel wiring when they have an existing circuit with only 3 wires. The 3 wires to appliances are grandfathered in because people already have 3 wire circuits. It is not ideal.

P-J said:

Tell me a bit more about your desired setup. Which PID are you planning on using? (I hope one from Auber Instruments as I'm familiar with them.)

I'd be happy to draw a diagram for you, but I need a little more info.

P-J

Click to expand...

Hi, P-J. I never saw your response to this query. I know that you're inundated with others' requests, and I am in awe that you do all of this out of the goodness of your heart. Would you mind taking a few more minutes and please send me what you can on this? I sent you the answer to the question above on the next post. Please let me know if you'd like another response.
Thanks and Happy Holidays.http://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/images/smilies/occasion14.gif

bigtex52 said:

I have looked through all of the diagrams and I either have missed the one I am looking for or there isn't one. Is there a schematic diagram of Kal's panel exactly (3 Auberin PIDs and 1 Auberin JSL-74 Timer). Thanks in advance for your help in finding this.

Click to expand...

Kals panel uses an omega timer, not sure but the wiring may be different. He specifically says if you use the auber timer you are on your own for wiring. Hope this helps

sethlovex said:

Kals panel uses an omega timer, not sure but the wiring may be different.

Click to expand...

Correct. Other timers will most definitely be different. Some others have posted wiring diagrams for various other timers if you poke/search around the interwebs. There are various different timers that people have used.

The other option is to look at the wiring diagram in my instructions and use the Omega manual to see where the wires go, and then use the manual for the timer you want to use to figure out how to translate.

Good luck!

Kal

I've searched for a wiring diagram for the panel I'm making on a eHERMS build and can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I get close with a couple of PJ's diagrams but not exactly what I'm looking for. I posted a similar question in a different thread and somebody there suggested I post the question in this thread. Can somebody direct me to what I need?

My panel will have:

2 - 5500 watt elements
2 - Auber 2352 PIDS
1 - Auber JSL-73A Timer
2 - Wort pumps
1 - 3 way element switch
3 - 2 way Off/On switches (see picture below)
5 - LEDS
1 - Alarm/Buzzer LED for the timer

This is a mock up of what it should look like. Any direction would be greatly appreciated! Also, any recommendations on the placement of the componets on the panel would not be ignored, lol. That buzzer LED hanging out their looks weird to me. I'm limited to the constraints of the panel size though (11" X 11").

bisctboy said:

I've searched for a wiring diagram for the panel I'm making on a eHERMS build and can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I get close with a couple of PJ's diagrams but not exactly what I'm looking for. I posted a similar question in a different thread and somebody there suggested I post the question in this thread. Can somebody direct me to what I need?

My panel will have:

2 - 5500 watt elements
2 - Auber 2352 PIDS
1 - Auber JSL-73A Timer
2 - Wort pumps
1 - 3 way element switch
3 - 2 way Off/On switches (see picture below)
5 - LEDS
1 - Alarm/Buzzer LED for the timer

This is a mock up of what it should look like. Any direction would be greatly appreciated! Also, any recommendations on the placement of the componets on the panel would not be ignored, lol. That buzzer LED hanging out their looks weird to me. I'm limited to the constraints of the panel size though (11" X 11").

View attachment 165508

Click to expand...

Question... Why a second PID for the BOIL kettle? In my opinoin, you are tossing money away. The entire project can be done with a single PID.

P-J

so both of these diagrams are similar to what im looking to do.

what I have now is a single RIMS in a toolbox setup with an Auber SYL-2352 and 40A SSR PT-100 probe and two chugger pumps

what i'd ultimately like is

2 4500 or 5500 Element, 2000 RIMS, 2 PID, 2 pumps

I am thinking I can save some money only using 2 pids 1 for the rims and 1 for the HLT and BK would I be able to put a switch after the SSR of that PID to tell it what element to send the power to? or should I just spend the extra cash on another PID and SSR ?

-=Jason=-

OatStraw said:

50a 4500 2 Element 2000w RIMS 2pump 3PID EStop

50a 5500 2 Element 2 PID 2 Pump Estop

Click to expand...

P-J said:

Question... Why a second PID for the BOIL kettle? In my opinoin, you are tossing money away. The entire project can be done with a single PID.

P-J

Click to expand...

I guess I wouldn't need the second PID if I could control the BK and HLT with one PID. I have to assume that I would need an extra 3-way switch to go between the BK and HLT? I already ordered the 2nd PID and corresponding RTD thermometer...let me know so I can either stop the shipping of these or arrange to send them back if they've already shipped. Also, is there a diagram for a single PID, timer, and dual element for a 30A eHERMS system?

Heard many good things about you P-J...thanks for your input sir!

This is the diagram I need for 2 element, single PID, 2 pumps right? I'm assuming the timer shouldn't be that hard to wire into this?

• Can I put the "Panel Power 2-way switch" instead of the E-stop?
• It looks like there is a 2-way switch in place of the 3-way switch for going between elements?
• What happens to the RTD thermometer in the HLT when on the BK?...it just sits there not interfering with PID?
• Anything else I'm forgetting?

Marshall

Woops...forgot your diagram P-J

So I got around to installing the heating element and temp probe in my keggle and figured I would run an auto tune on my HLT. I turned it on and was playing with the pid trying to find the auto tune setting and after about 3 or 4 minutes I heard a very loud POP from inside the box. I quickly unplugged the box and opened it up and found the clear plastic cover for one of the SSR's blew off and was a little black. What the heck happened and why would that happen? The only thing plugged in was the element that was in my keggle which is a 5500W and the temp probe. The SSR is a 40A from Auber if this helps and using the diagram posted below.

Update: I did notice that the red light on the SSR was not on but I did hear a click on the inside after the pid did it's random numbers and letters when turning it on. I figured what the heck I'll try the other plug and SSR and again while trying to figure out the settings the SSR popped and tripped the GFCI. I went over my wiring again and I can't seem to find where it's going wrong so now I'm at a loss especially with the cost of 2 Auber SSR'S


Auberin-wiring1-a13-SYL-2352-4500w-RIMS by Ludahchris, on Flickr

PJ - I seem to recall you saying that your images were done in Visio. Do you have a template diagram that you could share? I'm happy to create my own, but it seems like following your standard is more appropriate.

Thanks for all the great work!

brewguyver said:

PJ - I seem to recall you saying that your images were done in Visio. Do you have a template diagram that you could share? I'm happy to create my own, but it seems like following your standard is more appropriate.

Thanks for all the great work!

Click to expand...

I make the diagrams using Microsoft Image Composer 1.5 to create the drawings. The drawing that I create in the MIC file also contains all of the compoents that I use to make the diagrams.

Once completed, I then save a copy of just the drawing portion as a JPG file.

If you decide to get the program Microsoft Image Composer, I'd be glad to send you a couple of my MIC files so that you can see and figure out how I do it.

By the way, do a Google search on Microsoft Image Composer 1.5 There are offers out there that are free if your system can handle it.

Hope this helps you.

P-J

Just want to say thank you PJ for all you do for the community here. Finally got mine running and it's working good.

P-J said:

With a 240V 30A feed you are really limited in what you can do. It sounds like you want to set up a 3 vessel system - HLT, MLT & BOIL. With that it can be done with a single PID and temp probe. The temp probe would be placed in the HLT. The temp in the MLT would be maintained through the use of a heat exchanger placed in the HLT. The mash temp is maintained by recirculating the mash through the heat exchanger. When it comes time to do the boil the PID is set to manual mode and power for it is regulated with this method (no need for another temp probe).

Here is a diagram that you might find helpful - And as always, click on the image to see and save a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17"):




I hope this helps you.

P-J

Click to expand...

P-J,

In other posts you've advocated using din rails, along with din breakers. With this diagram, would I just replace the fuses with the appropriate 120 or 240v breakers?

Also, I'm designing my control box. IIRC the hottest component is the relay. How hot does it get? There's a lot of materials besides metal that could be used, contingent on how hot things get in the box.

Thanks,
Kevin

The SSR is the part that gets hot, and it can get decently hot. I don't think you'd have to worry about other things bursting into flames, but unless you have a well sized heatsink on the back of the SSR, you're going to bake it and cut its life short.

Kevren, You want to leave those fuses and add the breakers to the main lines. One breaker for each element and one for the 120v line. The breakers protect the wires the fuses protect your components.

So, those fuses protect the components from.... electric spikes?

It's probably frowned upon, but I'm a wood kind of guy and would prefer to use wood. Wood ignites at 500+ degrees so it should be fine, with a heat sink and some form of cooling and air circulation.

Using wood for your panel box would be fine I suppose. If you plan to keep the SSRs internal, they will still need a heat sink and you WILL need some form of forced air venting. Typically people who run them internally put a fan on one side and a vent on the other and blow air across the heat sink(s) whenever the panel is on.

Trying to figure out how to wire a computer fan to my box for a while now. Any suggestions?

P-J said:

I make the diagrams using Microsoft Image Composer 1.5 to create the drawings. The drawing that I create in the MIC file also contains all of the compoents that I use to make the diagrams.

Once completed, I then save a copy of just the drawing portion as a JPG file.

If you decide to get the program Microsoft Image Composer, I'd be glad to send you a couple of my MIC files so that you can see and figure out how I do it.

By the way, do a Google search on Microsoft Image Composer 1.5 There are offers out there that are free if your system can handle it.

Hope this helps you.

P-J

Click to expand...

PJ - I managed to get an installation of Microsoft Image Composer working on an older computer, do you think you could send a few of your source files to me so I can try playing around with them? I'd love to figure out how you pull off doing such amazing diagrams!

Thanks!

Loodachris said:

Trying to figure out how to wire a computer fan to my box for a while now. Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

You can find 120vac fans online and run them the same as you would run a 120v power-on LED. Or get a 120vac to 12vdc converter and install that in your panel and then run a 12vdc computer fan. Either way, it should be pretty easy.

Hey all. Some of this diagram http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a11-RM-SYL-2352-5500w-4.jpg suits me perfect. I have two questions about it though.

1. Can I get rid of the timer? (It doesn't seem to perform any special function that my phone can't do.)
2. Can I set this up without the HLT?

Thanks for your help.

choirjon said:

Hey all. Some of this diagram http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a11-RM-SYL-2352-5500w-4.jpg suits me perfect. I have two questions about it though.

1. Can I get rid of the timer? (It doesn't seem to perform any special function that my phone can't do.)
2. Can I set this up without the HLT?

Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

Yes and yes. Just make sure to double check the diagram after you cut components out, and possibly adjust the fuse / breaker sizes now that there's less load.

Just noticed this one today that was not on the list. These will be really helpful to me as I start designing my panel.

It is not to hard can someone design the following

RIMs tube 4500 Watt ULD element.
BK 5500 watt
HLT 5500 Watt
Two chugger pumps
3 Amber PIDS SYL 2352
E stop
Alarm
Led lights
40amp SSR
AMP/VOLT meter
On/off switches (not toggle type)


Sent from my HTC One using Home Brew mobile app

Question for P-J...or anyone who can answer it. Is this panel capable of powering the 2 5500 elements simultaneously? Hence the reason there are 2 PID's. If so GREAT because that's exactly what I want to do!!



http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a11a-SWA-2451-5500w.jpg

Frymn1969 said:

Question for P-J...or anyone who can answer it. Is this panel capable of powering the 2 5500 elements simultaneously? Hence the reason there are 2 PID's. If so GREAT because that's exactly what I want to do!!

View attachment 171459

Click to expand...

Yes, it is set up to power both elements. The power feed is from a 240V 50A breaker.

P-J

Absolutely amazing Sir!!! I know I'm really pushing my luck....But would you happen to have a parts list to build this panel and a cover layout? Thanks a ton P-J

Frymn1969 said:

Absolutely amazing Sir!!! I know I'm really pushing my luck....But would you happen to have a parts list to build this panel and a cover layout? Thanks a ton P-J

Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't have a parts list for that particular wiring plan.

You might want to check out this Wall Mount Box for Two Controllers Pre-cut.
Hope this help you.

P-J

Absolutely helpful. They have pretty much everything needed

Also many of the electrical componants, especially if you go with DIN rails, can be found at http://www.ebrewsupply.com/.

I can't decide if I want 2pids or three...

Rims tube, HLT, BK
I can use one pid for the HLT /BK. The other for rims tube. But I'd like to monitor the temp inside the MLT. Either way I can't believe no one else has built a system like I intend to build.

2 pump's
Rims
HLT
Bk
2or3 pids
Lights above switches

Or have I missed those diagrams?


Sent from my HTC One using Home Brew mobile app

P-J said:

Sorry, I don't have a parts list for that particular wiring plan.



You might want to check out this Wall Mount Box for Two Controllers Pre-cut.

Hope this help you.



P-J

Click to expand...

P-J, let's say I want to monitor the wort (mash temp) coming out of the HLT before it goes through the HERMS coil. This will verify the mash temp versus the HLT temp. Would an additional PID be wasteful for this purpose, if so what would you recommend.?

Thanks again!

Frymn1969 said:

P-J, let's say I want to monitor the wort (mash temp) coming out of the Mash Tun before it goes through the HERMS coil. This will verify the mash temp versus the HLT temp. Would an additional PID be wasteful for this purpose, if so what would you recommend.?

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

Correction above. I meant to say wort coming out of Mash Tun