I overdid it, didn't I? (How Much Honey in a Cyser)

First timer here. Made a JAO a week ago. Had fun, decided to make a cyser last night.

1 gallon of apple juice (or 1 gallon minus the space for the rest)
3lbs of honey
5 raisins
D-47 yeast
Boiled a packet of bread yeast and threw it in there.

That's too much honey, isn't it? I don't mind sweet wines. My SWMBO loves them, but I don't want to end up with syrup here or anything.

Why did you boil your yeast? Is it doing anything, any action in the air lock?
Your recipe sounds good but why D-47 and bread yeast?
I think you will need to repitch. Activate the yeast in some boiled then cooled to 70-90 degree water 2 oz., pitch yeast in your water and let sit 20 min then drop that in your Cyser.

I boiled a packet of bread yeast and put in as nutrients for the D47, which I pitched according the packet's directions. It's bubbling quite happily along now.

Wendell said:

First timer here. Made a JAO a week ago. Had fun, decided to make a cyser last night.

1 gallon of apple juice (or 1 gallon minus the space for the rest)
3lbs of honey
5 raisins
D-47 yeast
Boiled a packet of bread yeast and threw it in there.

That's too much honey, isn't it? I don't mind sweet wines. My SWMBO loves them, but I don't want to end up with syrup here or anything.

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3# of honey in 1 gallon of liquid is fine. You won't end up with syrup. Honey is typically around 40 ppg, so you've probably got an OG of 130 or so. The D-47 is good to 14%, which should get you down to 1.02 or so. Shouldn't be too sweet or syrupy.

Jones said:

Why did you boil your yeast? Is it doing anything, any action in the air lock?
Your recipe sounds good but I think you will need to repitch. Activate the yeast in some boiled then cooled to 70-90 degree water 2 oz., pitch yeast in your water and let sit 20 min then drop that in your Cyser.

Click to expand...

If he just boiled the bread yeast, then he killed it and tossed it in. Thankfully it won't be active and won't do any of the fermenting. As long as the D-47 was properly pitched he's okay. Still don't know why the bread yeast was boiled, or even added in the first place...maybe yeast food?

Edit: My suspicions were correct about the yeast food.

Thanks, Ace. I feel much better.

I worried when looking at other cyser recipes and I didn't see any with more than 2lbs of honey per gallon.

Wendell said:

Thanks, Ace. I feel much better.

I worried when looking at other cyser recipes and I didn't see any with more than 2lbs of honey per gallon.

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Not a problem. Out of curiosity, what was your OG?

Ace_Club said:

3# of honey in 1 gallon of liquid is fine. You won't end up with syrup. Honey is typically around 40 ppg, so you've probably got an OG of 130 or so. The D-47 is good to 14%, which should get you down to 1.02 or so. Shouldn't be too sweet or syrupy.

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A 1.020 cider is pretty sweet. Even so, I think the OG and FG would be significantly higher. I think the OG would be around 1.130 if it were 1 gallon cider plus 3 lbs honey. This is a total volume of 1 gallon. If honey is 40 ppg, then 3 lbs contributes 120 points. Since the total volume is 1 gallon and 3 lbs honey equals a quart, there should be about 3/4 gallon apple juice. Let's say the juice has a grvity of 1.044, or 44 points, then 3/4 gallon would have about 33 points. 120 + 33 = 153 or an OG of 1.153.

Assuming D47 ferments to 14%, the gravity would drop approximately 106 points. That would leave an FG of approx. 1.047 (153-106=47). That's really sweet.

You might want to ferment another gallon cider with maybe one lb honey and blend them post fermentation.

You're right. I was just using the honey ppg to try and get a quick OG. I also agree that another, dry cider to blend is a good idea.

I don't have a hydrometer, which could've solved the problem apparent now.

I like the option of brewing another drier cider, but is just dumping some of the apple juice out and adding water out of the question? Would that be too imprecise and require too much apple juice to compensate for the honey?

You could dump some out and add water, but I'd be tempted to replace it with more juice instead. The juice will give you some flavor.

Off the top of my head, I think you'd have to replace about a quart.

or if its too sweet couldnt you pitch EC-1118? That stuff tears through sugar and gets to 18%

They are all right. You've got many options here.

1) Make another batch and blend. Pros: More booze! Cons: More time.

2) Thin it out with some water when fermentation is complete. Pros: Easy. Cons: May end up with watery cider or thinned out flavor.

3) Add a different yeast strain. Pros: Easy, drier cider (i.e., more alcohol) Cons: More time.

GinKings said:

You could dump some out and add water, but I'd be tempted to replace it with more juice instead. The juice will give you some flavor.

Off the top of my head, I think you'd have to replace about a quart.

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Would you wait until the fermentation is over to do this?

No, I would do it now.

Adding it now effectively lowers your original gravity. The yeast will be able to ferment to a lower final gravity, so your cyser won't be as sweet. I believe we guessed that you started with a gallon at 1.150. If you remove a quart and replace it with 1.045 juice, then your average original gravity is 1.124. If the alcohol kills the yeast after a 105 point drop (approx 14% ABV), then your final gravity would be around 1.019. That's still fairly sweet, but it's much lower than leaving it as is.

Adding juice after fermentation won't have the same effect. We guessed your OG was around 1.150 and the yeast dies of alcohol toxicity around 1.045 (105 point drop). Apple juice also has a gravity around 1.045, so removing overly sweet cyser at 1.045 and adding juice at 1.045 doesn't lower the residual sugar level. The yeast already died from the alcohol, so renewed fermentation isn't gonna happen.

My numbers are approximations off the top of my head, so don't expect them to be exact, but I hope you get the idea.

I'd let it be. You'll need to top up when you rack it anyway, if you're concerned about your end product being too sweet, just top up with boiled & cooled water, it'll lighten your gravity, top up your volume & make for a lower FG; it's a win/win plan. Regards, GF.

EDIT: And get a hydrometer if you don't already have one. GF.