OFFICIAL Kate the Great Russian Imperial Stout Clone

Yeah, I don't think I would do this one BIAB again, at least not with my current setup. I have never been that big on common sense, which might have served me well had I used some on this batch. But I still think I could have lifted everything better if it was below waist level. It was no fun lifting it up so high. Today's problem will be freeing all of the wild animals and neighborhood children who get glued where they stand in the sticky residue of spilled wort while walking past where I brewed.

Thanks for the encouragement about the hot side aeration. I hope it doesn't screw the batch up. It is currently fermenting like mad with s05, keeping pretty steady at 67 degrees.

The partigyle batch was pretty nice- 1.037 pre boil gravity, Added essentially the same hop bill as KtG but less, and no bittering charge, since the hops from the previous batch (at least some of them) were mixed in with the grist the way that I did it. All those late additions have plenty of bitterness left in them! It is meant to be a dry stout, but started at 1.050 after boil. Using nottingham to dry it out. It is now fermenting at 64 degrees. Wort tasted awesome. Can't tell what the KtG wort was like because I was too busy cursing to try it.

Brothell , WA?? You are right up Lake City Way from me!

kshuler said:

Brothell , WA?? You are right up Lake City Way from me!

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Not too far away! I'm up by maltby Rd.

I brewed this biab. I used two bags with the grains evenly split between the two bags. Both in my 35quart pot at the same time. I think I had 21-22#'s of grains plus a little dme. The two bags really helped make it managable.

kshuler said:

Ouch. Worst. Brewday. Ever.

THen I tried to lift the bag. It turns out, that 29.41 lbs of grain in a bag and soaking wet, weighs a LOT more than 29.41 lbs. And my equipment is quite high off the ground (top of the mash tun us about 5' up). I couldn't hold the bag for more than about 5 seconds before dropping it back into the mash. So the only thing I could do was haul it out as fast as I could with one big jerk and transfer it to another container that was lower so I could attempt to hold it up that way, as opposed to above my shoulder level. As you can imagine, wort was dripping out quite fast and it went EVERYWHERE. I was covered in wort (HOT wort, mind you!) as was the floor all around me. Great.

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You may want to try some variation of Alton Brown's Turkey Fryer Derrick next time.

With your kettle so high off the ground, you might need a bigger ladder, however....I plan on setting this up for my next BIAB.

Well, I tried my version which I am calling: Kate, the almost great but not quite. Brew day went smooth until dough in when I realized I had forgot the white wheat malt when writing down my shopping list. The rest of the brew day went great though. Ended up collecting 11 gallons pre-boil and boiled down to 6. Was planning on a lower efficiency and still hit 75% so this one clocked in at 1.122 and should finish between 12-13%. Pitched 3 packets of US-05 at midnight last night and just hit it with another shot of O2, hopefully it kicks off this afternoon.

Any reason on haveing 3 different hops for bittering? Can I make the bittering one type of hop?

How many ounces of oak is everyone using?

My plans is 2 oz of medium toast american oak soaked for a month in Port.

I'm doing 2 oz medium toast American oak as well, giving it 2 months in Penfolds Tawney.

Ok, I'm good with the 2 oz, why the tawny port vs. Ruby?

Only real good reason was it was 10 bucks for the bottle so I figured it was worth a try and after trying it, I liked the flavor and thought it would meld well with the oak and roast of a RIS.

Interesting, I had already picked up the ruby port, just wondering if there was something I had missed. The description of the subtle cherries sounded good vs the almond. I'd love to do a swap further down the line to see if there are any differences.

I picked up the recipe, I'll be using the San Diego super yeast. Need to do a small beer with it first to get a yeast cake ... Looking forward to this beer!

I used 2 oz of American Oak medium Toast. Soaked it in Bourbon for 3 weeks. (I had the bourbon) I've never had Kate the Great and figure I never will so matching the original is not the up-most concern at this point.

Once its all said and done I might re-brew this spot on with the recipe posted.

I brewed this a week ago doing stove top PM. I did 2 lbs of 2-row,the rest of the grains and 8 lbs of DME. For yeast I used 2 packets of Nottingham. It was very hot this last week and I used a swamp cooler to keep fermentation cool, in the mid to low 60's. Last night it looked done so I drew a SG sample (and taste). It is down to 1.022 (making it just over 11% ABV) and very good. There is no alcohol heat at all, which is really surprising. I attribute this to the cool temp and can't wait to oak it (after another few weeks in the primary).

Just got the ingredients for this from Brewmasters Warehouse yesterday. I will buy my yeast locally since it is about 1000F out right now.

My biggest obstacle now is finding time to brew it...too much stuff going on during the summer.

Just took the 1st sample. It is down to 1.019, has a very rich complex maltiness, and a very full body. Very complex. It has been on oak now for about 1.5 weeks and as of now, there is a faintly barely perceptible oak flavor, but very very subtle. I don't think I'll take another sample for about 2 more months, but so far I am quite happy with it. I have never had the real deal, so I can't say how it compares, which is a shame. I just don't think you can get Kate the Great out here on the west coast. Hops are pretty well balanced and if anything it is more malt forward than hoppy, but definitely not more bitter than I would expect or want. And after my horrendous brew day, I do not, thankfully taste anything like oxidation in the beer.

The partigyle batch used nottingham and fermented down to 1.008 from 1.050. It is fairly nice too, but needs some age.

So I just tapped my keg of KtG and it truly is amazing! This tastes suprisingly like the real deal! Thanks so much for posting this recipe. I oaked mine for 28 days in the keg with the use of a hop bag and used 3 oz of medium toast hungarian oak soaked for 45 days in a port that I had been given as a gift from a port drinker (I can't remember the brand). It is amazing. I'll be bottling up a few of these from the keg to save for some special occassions down the road. This is so good. Chocolate, coffee, and a nose of strawberry from the port. Delish!

Just a quick update. My KTG clone has been on oak for 2 months now. Before that I soaked the cubed American oak medium toast for 1 month in Bourbon.

Last night I took my wine thief and took a sample. You can clearly smell the oak on the stout, but not overpowering at all. The nose fulled with dark flavor notes kinda held together with the oak. The alcohol is clearly present. (Mine ended up at 12.5% before adding the bourbon or oak.)

It is midnight black in appearance. It had a little head to it that was mocha in color. Even with it being flat it was very well balanced.

The taste is very balanced. Nothing really fights for my attention. You notice the oak but it doesn't scream. My wife stated that "She didn't mind the oak flavor" but she also said that she wouldn't drink more than 1 22oz bottle.

Right now the plan is to bottle it after labor day.

Here's my clone!

Thats a good lookin brew! Glad it turned out well for you!

Thanks!

After my mostly failed attempt (went way over on my planned efficiency, 75% vs 65%) and fixing my stuck ferment with WLP099 (was stuck at 1.048, swirling for 2 weeks got me down to 1.040), I transferred to secondary on my port soaked oak at 1.023 for a whopping ABV of 13.2%. Sample I took still had a good chocolate and roasty character but had a strong but not overwhelming alcohol bite. I saved my port, I will add it as I go along and sample to gauge when to pull it off oak if I feel it needs more. Will be interesting to see how this one turns out.

Kegged my 2nd running partigyle batch today. Uncarbonated it is quite nice- very complex rich malty flavor. I think I slightly underdid the bittering hops, but it will still be a nice pleasant drink. went from 1.050 to 1.008. Haven't had a sample of the main batch since adding the oak. Will try again sometime in October. Considering the second runnings tasted so good, I think the main batch will be amazing.

I'm (finally) planning on brewing a mostly-grain batch of this next weekend, and was considering the parti-gyle approach as well. What style did you end up making out of the second runnings? I was debating between a hoppy brown and a porter. I'm leaning towards the former as I'll be pitching some 3711 on it (the second runnings, that is--wouldn't do that to KtG!) out of convenience/curiosity and think that hoppiness would be easier to balance with the saison esters.

The partigyle batch was supposed to be a foreign extra stout but I didn't get above 1.050. It fits in better with the dry stout category, going from 1.050 to 1.008. It is quite dry, but I had to guess on the bitterness a bit because I didn't wash the boil kettle between batches-- as such there was a bunch of spent hops in there, and I figured they would still contribute a lot of IBUs, so I underhopped the batch. Turns out I should have added a bit more.

I will say, that if you do it like I did, you are going to end up with a very dark brown. The dry stout I made off this is still close to black.

Hmm... I can tolerate that. I didn't plan on washing the kettle either, but I usually strain the hops with a bag anyway. Thanks for the advice .

I finally ended up doing this batch this weekend, splitting between two fermenters in case I get a particularly vigorous blowoff (thus far, not a problem). My gravity was off by about 10-12 points, so I'll probably supplement with a pound or so of DME after a day or two.

My second batch with the grains had a few problems, not the least of which being the fact that I forgot to add a few more pounds of base malt and crystal, which was my original intent (since this was a PM batch, I figured I'd need to supplement it somehow). My volume ended up *way* higher than intended, which meant I ended up boiling it for about three hours before it got down to around 4.5 gallons. I pulled the hops out after the initial 60 minutes, figuring it would be a bad idea to leave them in. That said, the result is still extremely astringent. Is this simply because the hop compounds already present continued bittering? Or is it due to the dark malts that had already given their all, and ended up providing nothing but tannins to this batch? Is there anything I can do to fix it? I'm OK dumping the second batch if needed, but would like to try and fix it up if possible.

smagee said:

I finally ended up doing this batch this weekend, splitting between two fermenters in case I get a particularly vigorous blowoff (thus far, not a problem). My gravity was off by about 10-12 points, so I'll probably supplement with a pound or so of DME after a day or two.

My second batch with the grains had a few problems, not the least of which being the fact that I forgot to add a few more pounds of base malt and crystal, which was my original intent (since this was a PM batch, I figured I'd need to supplement it somehow). My volume ended up *way* higher than intended, which meant I ended up boiling it for about three hours before it got down to around 4.5 gallons. I pulled the hops out after the initial 60 minutes, figuring it would be a bad idea to leave them in. That said, the result is still extremely astringent. Is this simply because the hop compounds already present continued bittering? Or is it due to the dark malts that had already given their all, and ended up providing nothing but tannins to this batch? Is there anything I can do to fix it? I'm OK dumping the second batch if needed, but would like to try and fix it up if possible.

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Go all grain and
problems fixed

Native302 said:

Go all grain and
problems fixed

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I'm not certain how that will fix the batch that's already done, but thanks for the advice. My reasons for doing a partial batch are fairly well-documented earlier in this thread.

How long has it been going? If I make a porter with only half a pound of roast malt, it will taste astringent after only a week. A month from brew day, all of the astringency is gone. Maybe it just needs time to mellow.

Just did it last night, so I figured it might change a bit as fermentation progresses. I'm just concerned because the wort us typically at least a little sweet prior to pitching; this one tasted like a green batch freshly finished.

Well, the second runnings have come down around 1.012 (and will likely continue to drop a bit longer), and taste absolutely awful. It's fairly evident to me at this point that the hop compounds will indeed continue to bitter as the boil progresses regardless of whether the hops themselves are still present.

Ah well, I'll have to write this one off to experience and consider it an extremely large yeast starter. I needed to cultivate some more 3711 anyway.

smagee said:

Well, the second runnings have come down around 1.012 (and will likely continue to drop a bit longer), and taste absolutely awful. It's fairly evident to me at this point that the hop compounds will indeed continue to bitter as the boil progresses regardless of whether the hops themselves are still present.

Ah well, I'll have to write this one off to experience and consider it an extremely large yeast starter. I needed to cultivate some more 3711 anyway.

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Let it ride for a few months before you cast judgement. Those flavors will mellow out with time.

Strange- my second running batch tastes great. Did you treat your water for the second runnings? If the pH is too high it will extract a bunch of tannins from the husks. My second runnings batch is UNDER hopped, not bitter enough.

I didn't adjust water at all for either batch; I've never had a problem with it before, so I decided not to tweak with things this time either. The second runnings had a multitude of problems, the extended boil being only one of them. I forgot to add a bit more grain that I'd intended, I think the second "mash" (or sparge, but it was for ~75 minutes) was a bit too warm, although not to the point that tannins should've been extracted. Another contributor to my downfall was probably my ambitious choice of 3711 to ferment it, as that yeast will ferment the bucket itself, given enough time.

In contrast to your experience, I rinsed the kettle of old hops and added completely new ones for the second batch, so that would be why mine didn't end up under. Definitely not looking good for the time being though; we'll see how things progress.

Thoughts on Bottling this beer? Any one bottle them yet? I am at over 3 months on the oak and ready to bottle. I had them in 2ndary for 3 months before that. I am afraid that the beer will not carb correctly if I just add the priming sugar.

Thoughts?

I'll be bottling mine on 6 oct after 6 weeks on med toast oak spirals. Not gonna re yeast

lewybrewing said:

Thoughts on Bottling this beer? Any one bottle them yet? I am at over 3 months on the oak and ready to bottle. I had them in 2ndary for 3 months before that. I am afraid that the beer will not carb correctly if I just add the priming sugar.

Thoughts?

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I'd say it depends on how long you expect to let them bottle-condition. With the little amount of active yeast you probably have going right now, it'll take a long time to carb up, probably at least several months, and it'd be best to give it around 6 or so just to be safe.

I might add half a packet of yeast or so to the bottling bucket just to ensure you get enough active cells going that you get carbonation within a few months. I assume you weren't planning on popping it inside of 3 or so anyway .

By the sheerest coincidence, I was intending to post an update tonight anyway (hence the double post), as I just racked my batch to secondary. Ended up with ~6 gallons *after* trub loss at OG 1.112, which has come down to 1.022 (and actually may continue to drop). Denny's yeast really chewed through this thing, although it certainly took longer than it usually does.

Color is dark brown in the siphon, inky black in the glass, with a mocha head so far. Considering it's getting mild head retention even though it isn't really carbed up yet bodes well for its future. Initial flavors are heavy roast coffee, which I suspect will fade with time, allowing some more chocolate to come out. The "raisiny" flavor from Special B is mild, but definitely present. I'm not a huge fan of that aspect of a lot of big RISes, but this one is balanced well by the coffee. Definitely looking forward to seeing how the oak+bourbon impacts it, as the vanilla from the infused bourbon should complement both the oak and the coffee nicely. So far, so good!

Glad it turned out well. I thought it was absolutely delicious before carbing, and the sample I took still had a bit of yeast in it. Mine has been in the keg for about 2 weeks now, and I will not take a sample anytime soon. I have one problem, however. I do not own a stout faucet nor a nitrogen or beer gas tank. How much a I going to lose by just carbing it with pure CO2 and just using my normal faucet? Is it worth it to spend a few hundred dollars for a whole stout setup, or will it be OK just on CO2? I only have a single CO2 regulator, so I can't alter the pressure between one keg and another-- everything is carbed at about 2.4 volumes. SHould I turn it down for this beer?