What make a good wine/cider fruit good?

EDIT: Crap! Can't fix a spelling error in the title.

I want to do something experimental. I was in the asian market today and they have all kinds of exotic fruits there, most of which I have tasted in the past and some are very sweet. As I was walking by them, viewing them for the first time from a noob homebrewer's perspective, they all look like potential wines to me now. But I don't know what to choose.

To save us all some time researching specific exotic fruits, let's go with a hypothetical: If you came upon an undocumented jungle fruit, how would you know (or have a good idea) whether or not it would make a tasty wine? In general, what properties do good wine fruits have in common and what properties make for a poor wine fruit?

So far all I've been told is that citrus fruits typically do not make good alcoholic beverages.

Thanks!

Balance makes for what we think of as 'good' wine. Not too sweet, not too tart, good body/mouthfeel. Some fruits have it. Other need encourgement through the use of acid adjustment, sugar adjustment, addition of tannins, ect. Try a fruit and think of the taste of it in those ways.

strantor said:

EDIT: Crap! Can't fix a spelling error in the title.

I want to do something experimental. I was in the asian market today and they have all kinds of exotic fruits there, most of which I have tasted in the past and some are very sweet. As I was walking by them, viewing them for the first time from a noob homebrewer's perspective, they all look like potential wines to me now. But I don't know what to choose.

To save us all some time researching specific exotic fruits, let's go with a hypothetical: If you came upon an undocumented jungle fruit, how would you know (or have a good idea) whether or not it would make a tasty wine? In general, what properties do good wine fruits have in common and what properties make for a poor wine fruit?

So far all I've been told is that citrus fruits typically do not make good alcoholic beverages.

Thanks!

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I am just getting started brewing wine myself. But I have heard in the past, and I'm not sure why this is but I've heard that fruits with a lot of seeds make good wines. Strawberries, pomegranate, blackberry, ext.... Like I said I'm not sure if there's any truth to this. Hope it helps and if anyone knows if this is BS say so. That way Ill know for future reference

Very easy, if it tastes good ferment a lot of it, if it doesnt taste good raw only ferment half as much! One item you passed by that makes an excellent wine by itself or added to many others is ginger, most Asian markets have piles of fresh plump ginger cheap, add some of your mystery fruit and you got a wine going. WVMJ

ginger, eh? Sounds gross. But so does fermented barley water, and I'm a beer fan. Maybe I'll give it a try.

Gross? Not hardly, its very good. Use the fresh root, not the dried spice, 8 ounces to a pound/gallon, niagra as the wine base. More ginger gives it more heat, might be to much for some beer guys WVMJ

What makes a good tasting wine besides the fruit flavor?
acidity ... bitterness ... proper astringency ... mouthfeel

What qualities of the fruit help you to make it?
pH ... nutrients ... sugars ... tannins

The thing about non-grape fruit wine is that you must manage all these aspects and more, independently.
So, if we assume that one will manage all those qualities, then we are left with flavor.

Some fruits with intense flavor like cranberries, lemons etc make good wine. Some fruits with a more mild flavor like blueberries, bananas etc make good wine.

I think it comes down to what qualities and flavor *you* want in the finished product.
As far as experimenting ... I'd say go with fruits that have a more intense flavor. Buy one of each and have a tasting. Alternately, write down the names and look it up on google to see if it is used for wine in its native country ... alternately, maybe the checkout clerk knows which are used for wine ... um, if he or she speaks English.

As far as the "citrus fruits" not making good wine ... ask that to people who like to make lemon wine ... Skeeter Pee.

WVMJ said:

... makes an excellent wine by itself or added to many others is ginger, most Asian markets have piles of fresh plump ginger cheap ...

Click to expand...

I've got a classic "Green Ginger Wine" finishing up right now in its 3rd carboy. Absolutely awesome.

This is a wine which uses a grape white wine (actually grape and ginger in the primary) as the base and then gets most of its actual ginger flavor from fortification with brandy that has had ginger infused in it.
Ginger chopped in a food processor and dried in the oven at low heat to remove some of the moisture; then in a big jar, as much brandy as will just cover it. Then the strained brandy added after the wine falls clear.

Green Ginger Wine is a very traditional British fortified wine still available commercially.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_wine

It was extremely popular in Britain from the mid 1700's, and was commonly made by housewives in the home. At one time the production at home was actually promoted by the English Crown to discourage the smuggling of alcohol in to the country (which evaded the tax man).

I highly recommend it. Tastes great ... though as a fortified wine, kicks like a mule.

What kind of brandy are you using? Do you add any sugar to it at the beginning? We usually use the niagra as a base, sometimes we add some elderberries to make a red ginger wine. WVMJ

strantor said:

EDIT: Crap! Can't fix a spelling error in the title.

I want to do something experimental. I was in the asian market today and they have all kinds of exotic fruits there, most of which I have tasted in the past and some are very sweet. As I was walking by them, viewing them for the first time from a noob homebrewer's perspective, they all look like potential wines to me now. But I don't know what to choose.

To save us all some time researching specific exotic fruits, let's go with a hypothetical: If you came upon an undocumented jungle fruit, how would you know (or have a good idea) whether or not it would make a tasty wine? In general, what properties do good wine fruits have in common and what properties make for a poor wine fruit?

So far all I've been told is that citrus fruits typically do not make good alcoholic beverages.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I have made a Mandarin Orange/Pineapple that was quite good, using canned fruit that was on sale. Currently I am drinking a Satsuma/Hibiscus/Rose Hip wine that is really nice. The thing with oranges and pineapples is that it shouldn't sit on the gross lees for more than 5 days. It does take a bit of time to clear, but it just makes it better.

WVMJ said:

What kind of brandy are you using? Do you add any sugar to it at the beginning? We usually use the niagra as a base, sometimes we add some elderberries to make a red ginger wine. WVMJ

Click to expand...

Yup, Niagara for me too.

The Brandy I usually use is Christian Bros VS.
Inexpensive and having been distilled in the US it has to have been aged at least a couple years.
I use a lot of ginger with it ... basically I add only as much brandy as the chopped ginger will hold.

By sugar at the beginning you mean do I chaptalize/add sugar for the initial ferment?
Yep. I chaptalize with sugar. Final ABV prior to fortifying is around 18%. To get it that high I add more sugar and nutrient to the must in stages. I also add raisins in the primary.
Final ABV after fortifying is around 20%

I’ve been using EC-1118 in part for its low H2S production and mild nutrient needs.
I might switch to K1-V1116 though as it is one of the few high-alcohol tolerant yeasts which is both known for enhancing ester production rather than just being neutral and is said to express the “freshness” in white grape varieties. It also has a low tendency to produce hydrogen sulfide.
Even though I keep my fermentation temps moderate now ... if I go to the K1 I’ll try to ferment even lower and longer.

In the carboy I add a bit of lemon peel. Old British recipes for Ginger Wine typically include lemon.
As well, another commercial ginger wine, “Crabbie’s”, also contains lemon ... ginger, lemon and orange zest, wild cowslips, cinnamon and cloves.

I’m also considering experimenting with other additions ... vanilla bean ... and possibly Bitters such as Angostura, Orange Bitters, Wild Cherry Bitters, Peychaud (which is a bit licorice and floral), ... maybe one of my very favorite bitters to sip as I drink beer "Underberg", sometimes referred to as "German truth serum". (I know, strange)

As far as backsweetening ... about half I leave as is, and about half gets just a bit of honey to backsweeten.
I use honey as it's a natural complement to the lemon and a sort-of tannin/bitters flavor as found in the old cocktail “Rock & Rye” ... a version of the cocktail that most people remember from their childhoods as Whisky with Lemon and Honey ... sometimes given to kids for coughs. (hey, it beats paragoric!)

I also oak the wine. I am trying to get a bit closer to Stone’s Green Ginger as some of their older advertisements indicate that their “full round flavor and delicious softness comes from maturing it for years in aged wood”.
So, this would be a wine short in grape tannin (Stone’s is a white wine) so I use no grape based tannin to start ... but I do use wood tannins in the carboy ... french oak - medium toast. Avoiding grape tannin and keeping to wood should reduce astringency ... both initial astringency, and the astringency that develops as tannins age.

Using elderberries sounds interesting.
I’ve had liquor ... sambuca (the elderberry’s genus is “sambucus&#8221, and I’ve had akvavit - those are made from the elder flower ... but I’ve not tried anything from the berries.

I’m really surprised to hear of anyone else making ginger wine.

There are some styles of wines I regularly make and like to keep stocked in the cellar ... Green Ginger Wine is one of them.