whats wrong with this lager?

I have been brewing for a couple of years and only recently have I devled into the world of lagers. I live in Phoenis AZ so keeping ANYTHING at 55 degrees is a daunting task. Finally I took the time to rig a refrigerator to run hap hazardly between 52 and 48 degrees. I have made 3 lagers since the start and ALL OF THEM have come out with a queer marshmallow-like taste. The taste is not bad but its unknown and unwanted so i hate it intensely.

Please solve my case of phantom marshmallow taste! Heres some clues that may help

*beer was kept consistently in recommended temp range (45-55) for 30 days
*used plastic containers that never produced the flavor in previous ales
*i was trying to see how light bodied i could make a beer rather than how delicious, i sacraficed flavor knowingly in the name of science and used about 40% flaked rice that claimed "adds to alcohol without adding flavor or color"
*I used something called "zurich lager yeast" from white labs to make cultures for 2 batches. one batch got pure yeast from the vile without a culture and produced same weird taste. White labs claimed this would make a very dry high alcohol beer with good clarity.
* all of the beers wound up being over carbonated even with very little priming sugar. half of one batch exploded in the closet. The exploding batch had terrible clarity.


yeast? ingrediants? process? I have never made a bad Ale and my first attempts at lager produced 15 gallons of failure, any ideas?
thanks :cross:

I'm an ale brewer, so the first problem is that it's a lager!
(no, seriously. you don't have the 'flavor protection' a big, whompy "slice of beer" affords you.)

it could be a sanitary issue that you never noticed before - and I applaud your going where I aint gonna tread!!!!

40% rice sounds high, were you using 6-row malt with it?

If you are producing bottle bombs then I would guess you aren't done fermenting?

can you find a simple recipe that you trust?
can you make it 3 times, only changing one ingredient-OR-process on only the third batch?
do you know your water profile?

find someone in your area who makes a KICK-A$$ DUNKEL, and make nice and howdy-do.

I would like to ask a question about this Larger type yeast.

I was given a envelope of Saflarger s-23 yeast. I could probably ferment a small batch 2.5 gals in the low 60's but have no way of largering it in the 30's to finish it off. Would I just be wasting my time using s-23 or should I throw it away? Quite expensive compared to the regular yeasts.

brewmonk said:

I'm an ale brewer, so the first problem is that it's a lager!
(no, seriously. you don't have the 'flavor protection' a big, whompy "slice of beer" affords you.)

it could be a sanitary issue that you never noticed before - and I applaud your going where I aint gonna tread!!!!

40% rice sounds high, were you using 6-row malt with it?

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yup i was using 6 row. 40% is a stupid amount to use of a product you don't understand so Im guessing that may be where I whent wrong. Have you ever used flaked rice? i doubt the issue is sanitary. I am OCD and my beers are cleaner than a jonas brother

brewmonk said:

can you find a simple recipe that you trust?
can you make it 3 times, only changing one ingredient-OR-process on only the third batch?
do you know your water profile?

find someone in your area who makes a KICK-A$$ DUNKEL, and make nice and howdy-do.

Click to expand...

That is exactly what I intended to do actually. Thr problem is I had more than one constant. i used 40% rice and the same yeast in all 3 batches so the culprit was probably one of those two. I decided I'll just never touch flaked rice or Zurich yeast ever again if i get the problem without using those ingrediants than my fridge is a gateway to hell and must be destroyed.

What is your FG on these beers? If its higher than around 1.010 for a high adjunct lager I'd say you are not fermenting all the way. 40% rice is a lot, but that should only make it drier. Hmmm

sounds like you have a plan, so there should be no permanent problems.

with the dunkel idea, it was to find either a simple recipe, or a "known good" recipe, and test your environment with the same thing. hopefully a lagerer will chime in, but with slight off taste, the clarity issues, and the bottle bombs, are you taking gravity readings? is fermentation over?

is fermentation being put to sleep prematurely?


so my guesses are recipe, temperature, gravity.

SnakeOilPeddler said:

yup i was using 6 row. 40% is a stupid amount to use of a product you don't understand so Im guessing that may be where I whent wrong. Have you ever used flaked rice? i doubt the issue is sanitary. I am OCD and my beers are cleaner than a jonas brother

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I use flaked rice all the time (my favorite adjunct for lighter Ales and Lagers). Caramelization in a light beer can cause a cooked Marshmallow flavor or it could be the yeast. Like Ales, Lagers have no set fermentation time. How long are you giving the yeast before chilling to 52? are you cold pitching (this adds time to the fermentation but makes a cleaner lager)
Bottle bombs mean it was not fully fermented or you added too much sugar at bottling

yup i was using 6 row. 40% is a stupid amount to use of a product you don't understand so Im guessing that may be where I whent wrong.

Click to expand...

That probably did not give you the off flavor While I generally don't go above 33% Flaked rice, I doubt the extra 7% would cause the flavor.