Saison Cottage House Saison

How critical is it to remain at a specific temperature for the 3711?
I really want to brew this, but I don't have a ferm. chamber built yet and my brewing room fluctuates between 65-70+ depending on the weather outside and whether its afternoon or midnight...

stever1000 said:

How critical is it to remain at a specific temperature for the 3711?
I really want to brew this, but I don't have a ferm. chamber built yet and my brewing room fluctuates between 65-70+ depending on the weather outside and whether its afternoon or midnight...

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Should be fine. Most saison yeasts are happy at higher temperatures. I've only brewed w/ 3711 at room temps. If it gets too high, you might get some fusels, but those should age out. I'd chill to 65, aerate and pitch, and let it free rise. I'm sure others might have different recommendations, but that's probably the simplest.

Since I am going to try doing the extract recipe I converted... how can I mimic your first wort hop? What would be different for me if I just added them at 60min?

You could at the first hops after you take out the steeping grains and start heating the wort to a boil, or you could at them at 60 min.

Most people believe you get a 'smoother' bitterness from FWH. If you added them at 60, the beer would be different, but probably not by much.

BGBC said:

You could at the first hops after you take out the steeping grains and start heating the wort to a boil, or you could at them at 60 min.

Most people believe you get a 'smoother' bitterness from FWH. If you added them at 60, the beer would be different, but probably not by much.

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Thanks, I will add them after steeping the grains.

Picking up ingredients tonight - very excited!

stever1000 said:

Thanks, I will add them after steeping the grains.

Picking up ingredients tonight - very excited!

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Take pics of your brewday, I'd love to see your process :rockin:u

Just got a wyeast 3711 slurry from a local brewery.

I plan to make 20 gallon of this recipe next weekend. This will be my second brew on my 20 gallon electric breweasy
According to mrmalty, saying this is pretty pure and thick yeast I should only need about 250-300 ml of this yeast

flokason said:

Just got a wyeast 3711 slurry from a local brewery.

I plan to make 20 gallon of this recipe next weekend. This will be my second brew on my 20 gallon electric breweasy
According to mrmalty, saying this is pretty pure and thick yeast I should only need about 250-300 ml of this yeast

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Wow! you have a great friend!!

A little question,

I'm brewing with electricity and am using Breweasy and it has the Boil Coil inside the brewkettle.

I was wondering about they honey. In the recipe it says it should be added the last five minutes of the boil. I was wondering if there is any danger that in will sink to the bottom of the kettle and burn on the boilcoil?


With another brewing rig.. with a camco element, I once added candy syrup to the last 5 minutes of the boil. Some part of it stuck to the element and got burnt there. I thought if I was ever going to do that again, I would stir it up in warm water first. I never got to do that, so I don't know if that method is better

I was wondering if I should mix it with water first. Or is it perhaps just ok to dump the the boilkettle

I wouldn't want no burnt flavour in this marvelous saison

Mixing the honey up in warm water first is fine. Just make sure to account for the amount of warm water. Also, I'm assuming that you are also stirring on the bottom of the kettle while adding the honey (or candy syrup)..

Be safe and mix it with some warm water and dump it in after initial fermentation finishes.

Planning on brewing this, stupid question: is white wheat the same as white wheat malt? I can't seem to find just white wheat.

Yes, white wheat malt is what you are looking for.

Would you agree that the safest option for the honey is to add it to the fermenter?

I asked since i have electric element in the bk and do not want the honey to burn on the element

What would you recommend

Edit: this was supposed to be a qoute to azscoob

I'm for adding honey after "flameout", which is what I did with my e-kettle and this recipe. No risk of burn, preserve the honey flavor. In fact, I've even added it at high krausen if I'm too lazy to make a big enough starter to accommodate.

I contacted Blichmann, and they told me not to worry about the honey burning on the element. So I will probably add it in the last 5 minutes of the boil

I am though tempted of adding it to the fermenter after high krausen. Has anyone tested both?

flokason said:

I contacted Blichmann, and they told me not to worry about the honey burning on the element. So I will probably add it in the last 5 minutes of the boil

I am though tempted of adding it to the fermenter after high krausen. Has anyone tested both?

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I have not, but I would think adding the honey at full krausen would be akin to pouring gas on a fire.

My original thought was to caramelize the honey just a tad in hopes of retaining a bit of honey flavour...

Adding honey at high krausrn will be like pouring gas on a fire, have the blow off tube ready or lots of head space.
In a dubbel I made I added dark Candi syrup 2 weeks after pitching. Some yeast had settled at that point, still got a vigorous ferment but not like added sugar at high krausen.
One thing I read recently was some people seem to like adding honey and syrups early in the boil to get some maillard reaction out of it. Might have the same effect as caramelizing the honey.

@ azscoob - I've done this recipe before and love it. I'm thinking about switching it up and using a different kind of peppercorn...maybe szechuan peppercorn which would give it a bit of a lemony flavor. Also thinking about adding a tiny bit of cardamom. I'm going to be using two different kinds of yeast from theyeastbay for this one...their saison blend and the farmhouse sour ale. Thoughts about these changes?

I would try the peppercorns, sounds interesting!!! As for the cardimom, were you thinking black or green? Black will bring a bit of minty smokiness to the party, though I'm not sure how it will hold up, it seems to loose it's oomph shortly after milling

Thanks for your reply. I was planning on using green. Have you ever had 21st Amendment's Sneak Attack Saison? They use organic cardamom pods in that saison...that's the flavor I'm going after. I think I want to tone mine down a bit more than theirs though. They don't list whether they use black or green...but I don't get any minty or smoky flavors from that beer.

Best option if you want something similar to theirs...email them. I've seen some other post where people have gotten info from 21st Amedment so it seems like they're willing to share info.

Just finished brewing 20 gallons of this
Just second brew on my new breweasy and my efficiency was lower than expected, ended with 1.052

Will hopefully be a decent beer

I wanted to brew this next week and I have two questions (There are so many pages in this thread I tried to read through for my answers, but I haven't made it through every page).

1: I don't think my efficiency is at 75%. I have only done 3 all grain batches with my set up and I have undershot my OG on all of them. I was wondering how to adjust the recipe for lower efficiency? say 65% - 70% ?

2: I only have one small fermentation fridge that fits one carboy. Right now I have another beer in there. I wanted to do a Saison because I have read that higher ferm temps are ok / even desirable. I thought I could brew this and just let it ferment at room temp (70-75ish). Is this a bad idea and should I wait for the ferm fridge to get freed up?

Thanks for any help! this recipe seems like a real winner I cant wait to try it!

The answers:

you are close on efficiency, you could increase your grain-bill a tick to make up for efficiency..

And secondly, let that baby free ride the temps you have, it will be fine!!

azscoob said:

The answers:

you are close on efficiency, you could increase your grain-bill a tick to make up for efficiency..

And secondly, let that baby free ride the temps you have, it will be fine!!

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Scoob,

I'm in a similar position. I have ambient temperatures in my basement around 65-68. I also have the option of using a temp controlled fridge to start it lower if I want. For yours, I know you're saying 68 as the fermentation temp. I'm assuming you mean wort temperature, correct? What would you recommend?

My basement, where i ferment, is consistently 64, so I figure it's fermenting around 68-72. 3711 chewed this down to 1.004 in 7 days. It's been almost 2 weeks since then and I haven't checked the gravity again yet, but I would put money on it that it dropped down to at least 1.002. I might not get many of the fruity esters, have to see this weekend when I pull a sample out, but as far as the yeast performing I don't think mid 60's will give you any problem. The initial sample I got after the first 7 days had good citrus notes to it, I'm hoping it held through the whole fermentation.

bolus14 said:

My basement, where i ferment, is consistently 64, so I figure it's fermenting around 68-72. 3711 chewed this down to 1.004 in 7 days. It's been almost 2 weeks since then and I haven't checked the gravity again yet, but I would put money on it that it dropped down to at least 1.002. I might not get many of the fruity esters, have to see this weekend when I pull a sample out, but as far as the yeast performing I don't think mid 60's will give you any problem. The initial sample I got after the first 7 days had good citrus notes to it, I'm hoping it held through the whole fermentation.

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Thanks for sharing. I'm leaning toward fermenting at ambient temps but I guess that'll be a game-time decision. Will have to use a fermwrap and move a bunch of storage beer in order to use my fridge to ferment in.

azscoob said:

The answers:

you are close on efficiency, you could increase your grain-bill a tick to make up for efficiency..

And secondly, let that baby free ride the temps you have, it will be fine!!

Click to expand...

Alright man I'm going to ferment this at room temp and we'll see how it turns out! Thanks for the recipe, I really cant wait for this one!

For what it's worth, I have brewed several beers with 3711, at varying temperatures (from mid 60's to upper 70's). It has been my experience that this yeast is just a monster. Highly resilient to temperature changes, with very consistent performance. So, while you will end up with a slightly different beer depending on the temperature at which you ferment, I can tell you that it will be a solid beer, either way. In part due to the yeast, in part due to Scoob's solid recipe.

Cheers!

I'm thinking with ambient temps around 65-70, that'll give a decent amount of ester production, which is good. Maybe I'll try a batch at 68 wort temp too, which should produce a less fruity beer.

one more question:

I'm playing with this in beersmith trying to figure out how to compensate for lower efficiency etc.

i put the ingredients in as stated in the recipe and lowered the efficiency to 65%. I also changed the batch size to 5gal.

it tells me the SG is 1.052. this is without the 1lb of honey. How much does the honey add to the gravity? Is1.052 without honey correct?

Im still trying to figure out why i dont hit my numbers. I suspect it is because of my low boil off rate (i do this on my crappy stove). So I am trying to adjust the batch size and boil off rate etc. while keeping the SG (or OG? what is the difference) the same/correct. The Honey thing is throwing me off!

thanks again for any help!!

Three days since I pitched the yeast and the gravity is down to 1.030, from OG 1.052.
I frankly thought if would be lower by now, not that it makes a difference.

The smell is really really good and the taste is also good. I can imagine that the taste will be suberb when this dries up with gravity going close to 1.000

I'm really excited

Based of the link below it'll add about 7 points, so would put you up to 1.059

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/how-many-gravity-points-would-pound-honey-add-233665/

Think I can get away with fermenting this at room temp? It's been in the high 70's low 80's here. If I can do that I can get another brew in my mini-fridge at the same time.

There are a few questions here needing answers... One: honey indeed adds about 7-8 points to the original/starting gravity (OG/SG).

Two: go ahead and ferment at room temp! I've fermented this at those temps with no issues! In fact I've had this one hit 118 degrees while fermenting in Phoenix in my garage, this yeast can take most anything you toss it's way... Trust me!

Three: RDWHAHB!

Awesome! Thanks for the answer, I'm looking forward to brewing this.

Brewed this recipe 24 January with modifications based on what I had on hand. Left out the oats, fwh with Chinook and Willamette, flavor with Willamette, dry hopped with a bit of Willamette and German tettnang. Added 1 T sweet Valencia orange zest (dry) at flame out.

Really, really tasty stuff - will definitely be brewing again. In fact, have another batch fermenting now with blackberries and brett. I will, however, be cutting down on the black pepper for any subsequent batches as it's a bit much in the throat. Otherwise, just want to weigh in that this is definitely worth brewing.

Obligatory picture attached. Cheers.

I brewed this last night with my extract conversion
I only added 1 tsp of ground pepper because I used organic Kampot pepper from Cambodia
My OG was a bit low, which I am happy with if the 3711 lives up to its reputation and ferments down to 1.00X

Excited to see how it goes. I put a blow off tube and it is bubbling great so far

My Sorachi is 11.6% AA versus the 10.5% the recipe notes. Also, my fuggles are 5.1% instead of 4.5%. When I punch this into Beersmith, I'm obviously getting a higher IBU estimate because of this, so I'm trying to adjust.

Do you think the beer will be impacted negatively if my FWH additions of Sorachi and Fuggles go down to .35oz instead of .50? This will put me close to the IBU's the recipe calls for.