Comments sought on a New Belgium Sunshine Wheat Clone

I have found a number of requests for a clone recipe on different sites, but not much in responses. I know the brewmaster biked through belgium to perfect his skills (Fat Tire named after the bike) so I wanted to keep it true to a Belgian wit with the limitation of what my LHBS carried.

Beer: Sunshine Wheat Clone Style: Belgian White (Wit)
Type: All grain Size: 5 gallons
Color: 3 HCU (~3 SRM)
Bitterness: 17 IBU (NB's site lists it at 14, but they use high AA% Target which I can't get so upped a bit with 5% Willamette)
OG: 1.056 FG: 1.006
Alcohol: 6.5% v/v (5.1% w/w)
Grain:
4 lb. 8 oz. German Pilsner (NB uses Pale)
4 lb. 8 oz. White Wheat malt (NB specifies only wheat and likely raw, but I'm not going there, yet)
8 oz. Dextrine malt (Cara-Pils)
Mash: 60% efficiency
Boil: 75 minutes SG 1.043 6.5 gallons
1 lb. Belgian candi sugar
8 oz. Honey (pasturized and added after boil)
Hops:
.5 oz. Willamette (5% AA, 30 min.)
1 oz. Willamette (5% AA, 15 min.)
1 oz. Willamette (5% AA, 1 min.)
Other:
Corrainder seed 1 oz., half crushed and added in last 5 minutes of boil and half slightly roasted then crushed and added to secondary
.5 oz Curaco orange peel for last 20 min of boil
1 tbs lemon zest for last 10 minutes of boil

We'll see...thoughts/suggestions appreciated.

Are you thinking of Mothership Wit? That's their Belgian wit, Sunshine is more of a standard American wheat.

Edit: also as a point of order, the founder of NB doesn't even work there anymore His ex-wife Kim bought him out and runs the company. They hired a Belgian named Peter who used to work for Rodenbach as their new brewmaster. I only know this because I live like 1 mile from the brewery.

A standard american wheat with orange and corrainder? I am no expert, or anything close, but always seemed to me more of an american interpretation of a Belgian which made sense given the story. I don't care for Mothership all that much.

Thanks for the update/correction. When did this happen? In my early exposure to them (early 90's) there wasn't a NB I didn't like and two that were top of the list. I can't say that is the case today, but then again I didn't know they changed brewmaster. Interesting stuff.

Jealous of your location! Think you can talk them out of the recipe for me???????

FWIW, New Belgium uses wheat malt, not flaked wheat in both Sunshine and Mothership Wit. They also use coriander and orange peel in both. The big difference is that Mothership uses all organic malts and a Wit yeast.

I think your grain bill is fine, but you can probably skip on the honey and candi sugar; Sunsine is only 4.8%. I would also go easy on the late hops, I believe they use a single bittering charge. Sunshine is also has a much more neutral yeast profile than Mothership. I would just use Safale 05/WLP001/Wyeast 1056 or possibly an American Wheat strain.

Cheers!
Kevin

Thanks B&C.

It got brewed last night less the honey (actually forogt about the pan pasturizing in the oven until after it was sealed, too many HB's!) and with a Begian wheat yeast, Wyeast 3942.

I know SW is Jeff's creation and assume MW is Peter's creation. The differences from the limited info on their site are the carapils addition in SW and high AA Target in SW vs. Hallertau in MW. Like you pointed out, clearly different yeasts as well.

Doc's post got me researching, a very alarming item I found was Peter saying he planned to tweak the early recipes as he was not 100% happy with them. Jerk! Remember the New Coke????

Great ideas for the next attempt though. Thanks again.

I would like to echo what beerandcoding said. If I was to try to clone this beer, I would do something like this:

48% 2-row
48% wheat
4% carapils

a bittering addition to make about 20 IBUs from a clean bittering hop like magnum, horizon, etc.

two ounces of orange or lemon zest (or both) at flameout
one ounce of crushed coriander at flameout

WLP001

Huh. I had no idea Sunshine had coriander and orange in it, so color me corrected. Love this forum

Sunshine Wheat

I would mash in the 148-150 range.

Eric

This one mashed at 154. Given the limited info I just went with Jamil's base number. This is going to be a recurring one for me until I get it close so please keep the suggestions coming.
Thanks all!

Eric, why do you suggest the orange/lemon and corr at flameout?

What about the Mothership Wit recipe?

In the keg 24'hrs being forced, sampled at purge tonight for the first time, wound up drinking 2 even though not properly carbed. I surprised myself with this one. I have to grab a 6'r to truly compare, but this is VERY close based on my taste buds memory. They have had an abundance of Sunshines over the last 15 years to form a really good memory.

Only change to the original recipe posted: forgot the honey (glad I did, but will keep the sugar based on the result) I did not add the toasted corrainder to secondary based on taste test at the time. (again glad I did).

Improvements for next time:
-Take the suggestion of 2 row over the pilsner. It could stand a touch more of malty base. After that attempt wouldn't be surprised to come up with a 2 row/pils bill in the end (wish I had bottled some to compare)
-Carafoam needs to be upped. Head is awful. Expect some improvement with proper carbing. Not sure of oil content in corrainder seeds, thinking it is pretty high now. Look into HBT's other wiki ideas for head and retention. A lemon wedge, as i prefer with this beer and my 2nd tonight, literally killed any noticable trace.
-I broke the orange peel a couple times, but next time I will rough chop and maybe throw in an extra quarter. The orange & corrainder seems pretty spot on as is, I jsut like the orange input so more of an experiment than an improvement.

I know it is not one of their flagships anymore and is getting more difficult to find in St. Louis so glad I got a lucky start at the clone. Hopefully, it isn't overshadowed by its "trendy" sibling Mothership that seems to be 2x as common but 1/2 as good. I see they are putting it in cans now, wth? This is not a can beer. And tweaking the recipe? Come on! I am concerned Kim is atop a slippery slope to profitable mediocrity, but wish her no ill for cashing in on the american dream. Being from STL, Adolphus Busch had some stiff local competition early on so he wasn't brewing swill, the mass marketing caused changes. Supply chain, consistency, profit...just sayin' I vote to keep NB craft brewing and not just using crafty names. End of rant... sorry

therealrsr said:

This one mashed at 154. Given the limited info I just went with Jamil's base number. This is going to be a recurring one for me until I get it close so please keep the suggestions coming.
Thanks all!

Eric, why do you suggest the orange/lemon and corr at flameout?

Click to expand...

Are you asking about the timing or the ingredient?

Because boiling it brings out the aroma in the boil, not in the beer.

Did that answer your question?

Eric

EricCSU said:

Did that answer your question?

Eric

Click to expand...

Kind of, I get your point, but the corrainder and orange are flavor, plus a residue of aroma that was never a strong point of the brew IMO. I guess I get it, but would not agree with the flameout. It would help reduce the oil extraction though.

AHS sells a clone kit, you could copy that too:

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_452_43_601&products_id=2106